Blizzard needs to EMBRACE flying...

[Kauko]

Oh wow look another wannabe pvp player trying to force his shitty pvp concept on non pvp players...

What? Hard to respond to nonsense like that...

[Tabrotar]

Lets make fun of the non english , dyslectic speaker....very low....very very low. And it was not that bad.

sorry that was just me typing to fast but whatever rocks your boat mate...

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What? Hard to respond to nonsense like that...

Hm i don´t know who of us 2 was responding to flying with get rid of it bcs it is "not good" for world pvp?

I´m very, very shure it wasn´t me so...

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Again, that is not what I said, you are missing the point. It's not about you do not know what you want (nor to say that if you have fun with flying you are wrong). Its about creating a better gameplay experience for the players.

But this is as good place as any to list the downsides of flying: Limits world design, makes gameplay flow wonky, depopulate the ground level, greatly diminishes exploration, hurts the devs ability to frame scenes among other things.

Ofc it has a lot of upsides too: Providing player with player with freedom, makes it way faster to do the desired content and let the players see the zones in all their glory just to name a few.

Pathfinder is a compromise, a good one. But it still has problems.

So it all comes down to a dev problem and not a player problem but the devs (as usual) pin the blame on the players.

[Monkiy]

If your a tank you can, other specs get dismounted and are forced to engage the enemy (even if only to disengage) and you still avoid running straight through especially if under geared.
Its honestly really a more subconcious thing that you dont recognise yourself doing, but it is actually a really important part of open world gameplay. I made a suggestion in another post if you are interested in it for what i think is a perfect compromise, basically flying for macro travel, ground mount for micro.

Without having read that post, your baseline description gave me the idea/impression of flying mounts having required landing or take off zones, preventing them from being used as a way to avoid the world, while still allowing for visual exploration, and more large scale travel. Perhaps each zone would have one or two of these landing areas, depending on size, terrain, etc.

[SirCowdog]

I'm saying they should rework flying... it's been my needs since the get go from when it was added in TBC... or at least relatively short afterwards. I don't mind them changing it and it might go to shit and become even worse, because as you say it's better to try instead of stagnate. I however understand WHY they don't, because people will complain.

People tend to have bigger issues with things taken away from them rather than having plenty of limits which later gets removed. Which is how blizzard started the flying thing. The only way to go forward with it is to put in restrictions and I understand that any company have to weigh in if the backlash is worth it for the long term effects yadda yadda. I don't know the answer to this if it is or not.. .I wish they rework flying, but I can understand why it's done the way it is done currently as a compromise.

To the verticality thing you mention, afaik plenty of people still dislike Nazjatar even with flying due to the verticality and the way terrain works. Much of my experiences and speculations on flying is based on that people just want a tool to get from point a to point b quick and with as little interaction as possible. I'm cynical in that regard.
I can understand why you would enjoy verticality, or rather I accept that that's how you feel about it. For me flying horizontally and vertically is the exact same thing so to me it doesn't matter and wouldn't be a step in either direction.

I actually completely agree they should rework flying. When you really get down to it, flight's basic mechanics haven't changed at all since it was first introduced. Minor things like speed have varied, but that's it.

As for the verticality of Nazjatar, when you look at it, it's still just a single level of content. Certainly there are cliffs and such, but all the monsters are always on the same level. There's no large cave systems. No multi-level buildings. Nothing of any depth at all.

And to compound that weakness of design, it's got the same binary flying/no-flying problem as before. Literally everyone I've talked to has said that Nazjatar was better once they could fly. It's clearly a zone designed for people to helicopter from one spot to another, and not for ground mounts. But that's not what Blizzard should be doing. Blizzard shouldn't be making grounded terrain and content that just doesn't break when everyone flies. They should be making terrain and content that ASSUMES that players will be flying, and adjust the location, challenge, and nature of the content accordingly.

Simply going "LOL! Cliffs!" and throwing a bunch of flying manta-rays everywhere is just lazy. And it's probably why so many people notice its badness.

[Terminatrix]

Or a crazy idea since they spend a shitload of time on creating zones, they want people to actually see it and not just fly from quest giver to objective and then back.

not to burst your bubble but the zones are way more pretty from above were you see everything then on the ground were you only see whats infront of you

[Sluvs]

sorry that was just me typing to fast but whatever rocks your boat mate...

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Hm i don´t know who of us 2 was responding to flying with get rid of it bcs it is "not good" for world pvp?

I´m very, very shure it wasn´t me so...

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So it all comes down to a dev problem and not a player problem but the devs (as usual) pin the blame on the players.

Well, yeah. I mean, I could argue a little bit about players not making it easy, but at the end of the day, it is a dev problem. It deserves to be said that we are all analizing it in hindsight and that makes everything seems way simpler than it is.

That being said, the way they handled flight was bad. Pathfinder is a way to remedy that, with degrees of both success and failure.

[shade3891]

Give flying mounts a shared cooldown of 15 min.

[Krelivane]

If it "wasn't good for the game" then not only Blizzard didn't realise it, but the (vocal / major) part of the community also didn't. Why did we get the Cataclysm? Because people had such a hardon for flying, they also wanted to fly in Azeroth, two continents never designed for flying.

Too bad you can't come in now and say "They are devs, they should know better" - because this forum has at least 10 threads every day, telling devs what they are doing wrong. Which at this point is....everything ever? (considering flying was introduced in TBC)



Nah..doesn't work that way. Also I mainly targeted the wording of "Blizzard needs to...." this is an imperative, it does not ask for a conversation. It TELLS them what to do (at least as fas as I understand the English language). It sounds like your way is the only way.

My way is whatever way you want. I'm basing my idea off the fact that Blizzard can't take away flying at this point. It would just hurt the game too much.

Not everything is black and white my dear friend <3

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What adds character to the world is the terrain itself. Not flyngf. Flying enables you to bypass the character of the world since regardless of how it's designed you take the same path to everything. As I've mentioned earlier.... it's irrelevant if you design everything on floating islands or mountain tops or a flat terrain when flying makes it a linear path regardless of how the terrain is designed.

You're assuming that ALL I WANT is content that is only accessible by flying. There's a happy medium there. Or even further, the majority of content should be on the ground, with only a couple of endgame bits of content that revolves around flying in some way.

I'm not after any extremes...

[Qoning]

Sure, embrace it, and make it +30% speed instead of +310%.

[Acherus01]

Simple solution:

Enable flying from launch. And have warmode disable flying while active.

That way PvPers can world-pvp as much as they want, while PvE-oriented players can quest/grind quickly and effectively as much as they want.

[wrynil]

I like it as it is, except the second part of pathfinder. One grind is enough to me.

[Krelivane]

Simple solution:

Enable flying from launch. And have warmode disable flying while active.

That way PvPers can world-pvp as much as they want, while PvE-oriented players can quest/grind quickly and effectively as much as they want.

The trick there is making it work with the narrative. Which Blizzard could easily do if they wanted to.

[Kumorii]

You're assuming that ALL I WANT is content that is only accessible by flying. There's a happy medium there. Or even further, the majority of content should be on the ground, with only a couple of endgame bits of content that revolves around flying in some way.

I'm not after any extremes...

Nope. I don't assume that stance at all... just trying to illustrate what flying does to terrain in its current form.

[Krelivane]

Nope. I don't assume that stance at all... just trying to illustrate what flying does to terrain in its current form.

Then don't fly and enjoy the ground content that is given to you. I just think Blizzard shouldn't dance around the fact that flying is in the game. Simple.

[Skirdus]

If we get another "broken" world like Outland - say maybe K'aresh - I could see it having some places you need to fly to. Or maybe some floating islands on Azeroth. People have speculated that the Dragon Isles are actually this, and not just another "undiscovered continent".

Either way, would be a nice change of pace

[Kumorii]

Then don't fly and enjoy the ground content that is given to you. I just think Blizzard shouldn't dance around the fact that flying is in the game. Simple.

which has nothing to do with the point I'm making. It's always been about how flying can be enhanced or embraced and most of it has been arguments of designing the terrain to accommodate flying. My counter arguments is that no terrain can do so due to how flying is currently designed, which is what I'm trying to explain.

It has very little to do with if I think flying should exist or not or if I want to use it or not.

[Krelivane]

which has nothing to do with the point I'm making. It's always been about how flying can be enhanced or embraced and most of it has been arguments of designing the terrain to accommodate flying. My counter arguments is that no terrain can do so due to how flying is currently designed, which is what I'm trying to explain.

It has very little to do with if I think flying should exist or not or if I want to use it or not.

Then that's your opinion and that's fine. Much like my original statement.

I believe flying should be incorporated a bit more into the overall world design (even just slightly so).

[bloodmoth13]

Without having read that post, your baseline description gave me the idea/impression of flying mounts having required landing or take off zones, preventing them from being used as a way to avoid the world, while still allowing for visual exploration, and more large scale travel. Perhaps each zone would have one or two of these landing areas, depending on size, terrain, etc.

Precisely.
Specifically: flight masters. They already exist all over the place and have a purpose of mounting flying mounts, just restrict mounting flying mounts to those spots and i 5hink everyone is satisfied.

[SirCowdog]

It deserves to be said that we are all analyzing it in hindsight and that makes everything seems way simpler than it is.

Just want to reinforce the point about it being a dev problem: Some of us have been saying from the very beginning not to do the No-Flying thing. Some of us have openly criticized the entire concept from the early beta of WoD where this trash-fire was started.

I'm not trying to be self-righteous or anything. Just saying that there are people who have fought this thing from its inception, and every step of the way in between. Providing feedback and criticism(both constructive and not). Blizzard has repeatedly ignored it in favor of feeding the echo chamber.

What I find most funny is the success that Blizzard garnered when they listened to players about Classic. And then again when they listened about Azerite gear. I REALLY think they should start listening to us about flying as well.

[Mardux]

No it boils down to meeting other players, no be able to avoid danger which in bfa lacks becouse mobs are not threat at all but thats different issue, makes world feel much much smaller, destroys immersion, etc.. Ofc flying itself isnt casuing all this but definitly adds to it.

By your logic Blizzard should just inta teleport you to your objective becouse you know to not just waste your time right? Seems like you forget that this is supostu be mmo game where world is what should matter and be immersive.

Mobs aren't a threat anyway, and were *rarely* a threat when leveling. And I met exactly zero other people while leveling.

There was no immersion. It was open map, point flying mount that forgot how to fly for 6-12 months in the direction of objective, then press numlock and watch for cliffs. Wheres the immersion in that?