The Failure Warmode is going into Shadowlands?

[Dystemper]

surprise surprise its this guy with another bait thread getting old fast OP.

This post is from November 19. Its a necro thread

[VinceVega]

Game naturally moved away from PvP realms being balanced because you're incentivized to not engage in world PvP (before War Mode), even if you like it - as it'll hinder your own progress as much as the one you kill.

I love world PvP - many of my favorite ingame moments over the last 10+ years are in World PvP, winning or losing (obviously not a fan of groups of people going around killing single opponents, but beyond that all good), and even I occasionally turn off War Mode to get something done quick (reputation farms for instance). If someone like me has it off occasionally despite a 25-30% bonus (as I play Alliance), how many would have it on without a bonus?

The problem with incentivizing kills of players is that you can abuse that system if it's lucrative enough (you easily get 50 times more honor per hour in a BG than in open world, if you balance the honor gain per kill around that (even without the random gear, conquest, other loot from BGs), War Mode would be heavily abused and ganking would be a REAL problem then.

The difference between War Mode and PvP servers is that it's simply a button now. On a PvP server you chose the good (engaging open world) with the bad (risk of getting ganked/stopped from progress) - with War Mode you can choose to always get rid of the risk and only have the good on your own terms, but very few people actively seek a challenge simply for a challenge, and as such War Mode would be deserted, just like the /pvp toggle on old normal realms.

People pushing high M+ do it for pure prestige yes, just like people pushing very high arena rating. Problem with War Mode being pure prestige is.. what's the meter for that prestige? World PvP rating?

I don't mind War Mode giving a milder incentive for people who only want to play half the game, problem is: what would that be, without removing incentive for those who don't mind PvP?

Keep in mind: Blizzard's ideal player is clearly someone who wants to play both PvE and PvP to some degree - they want to reward this kind of play. Giving rewards that only work in PvP would mean less incentive for them.

But is this then not a problem of people having no fun in wPVP? And this is then a result on the concept of wPVP. You will never have equal numbers of Horde and Alliance in wPvP. This could only be solved with a queue. Which again is not a good solution. But you would have equal numbers of poeple in it. WoW is sadly not equipped anymore for grand open world pvp. Half of the playerbase is not interested anymore (alliance) because of the unbalance from numbers and people who get enjoment out of ganking. Which i understand and is the sole reason i don't play wPVP on my alliance chars EVER
Games like Amazons new World is probably better for this.

[THEORACLE64]

Very true. Imagine if dungeons, raids, quests, and BGs gave no rewards either. I wonder how many would even be playing the game in that case.

Kinda my point in the first place in response to the OP. No matter what element of the game, you play it you get rewards. Welcome to MMO’s I guess.

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That is absolutely TRUE.
This is how WPVP works.

You have the Herbivores that come to graze on the world content: levelers, pve-ers, farmers, etc
Then you have the Predators that come to prey on the Herbivores: gankers, campers, etc
Then you have the Hunters that come to prey on the Predators: me, vigilantes, revenge gankers, etc

Herbivores have no reason to turn on Warmode and expose themselves to the Predators, which is why Blizzard is trying to motivate them by giving them extra rewards for their trouble, because without Herbivores there are no Predators, and without Predators there are no Hunters, and then there is no world pvp.

This is... special. There’s a difference between legitimately playing world PvP i.e. against your own level, skill, play style etc. compared to running around as a max level one-shotting and grieving low levels for zero reward, apart from fulfilling their micro-penis syndrome rage. Of course when you’re levelling with world PvP you expect it so you can’t complain that much about it, but without the XP buff nobody would use it and then what would all these little incels have to do with their time without killing low levels to feel worthy seeing as they can’t play/win PvP at their own level

[Dystemper]

WM was fun for like the first month but fuck the sharding and the effects WM had on lag. It made it unplayable at times . As for Large scale WPV , I only ever saw that on NAz and Mechagon and that stopped pretty much as 8.3 hit In SL it really makes no sense to have it

[The Butt Witch]

Kinda my point in the first place in response to the OP. No matter what element of the game, you play it you get rewards. Welcome to MMO’s I guess.

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This is... special. There’s a difference between legitimately playing world PvP i.e. against your own level, skill, play style etc. compared to running around as a max level one-shotting and grieving low levels for zero reward, apart from fulfilling their micro-penis syndrome rage. Of course when you’re levelling with world PvP you expect it so you can’t complain that much about it, but without the XP buff nobody would use it and then what would all these little incels have to do with their time without killing low levels to feel worthy seeing as they can’t play/win PvP at their own level

The vast majority of people who engage in world pvp are TROLLS! It's not about skill, it's about trolling people, controlling the time they have to play. They don't care about fair fights, they care about trolling anyone they can. These are the Predators. And then there are the Hunters that enjoy trolling the trolls.

[ymirsson]

and then there is no world pvp.

Sounds fine to me, lets remove that WM bullshit.

[Segus1992]

But is this then not a problem of people having no fun in wPVP? And this is then a result on the concept of wPVP. You will never have equal numbers of Horde and Alliance in wPvP. This could only be solved with a queue. Which again is not a good solution. But you would have equal numbers of poeple in it. WoW is sadly not equipped anymore for grand open world pvp. Half of the playerbase is not interested anymore (alliance) because of the unbalance from numbers and people who get enjoment out of ganking. Which i understand and is the sole reason i don't play wPVP on my alliance chars EVER
Games like Amazons new World is probably better for this.

Like I said, I play Alliance and hardly ever get ganked.

People would never play ANY content if it didn't give rewards.

[THEORACLE64]

Like I said, I play Alliance and hardly ever get ganked.

People would never play ANY content if it didn't give rewards.

Come on to Silvermoon and see the “fun” that’s been the last few days... major alliance pop realm and literally Horde just going around all the low level zones ganking. Hasn’t really happened before, but yeah, super annoying.

[The Butt Witch]

Like I said, I play Alliance and hardly ever get ganked.

People would never play ANY content if it didn't give rewards.

Almost none of the multiplayer games give any rewards outside the dopamine rush you get from defeating an opponent, yet they're still quite successful regardless.

You got the Call of Duty games, the Battlefield games, Overwatch, battle royales, etcs, and you can't take anything out of the match with you. No, a few skins is barely a reward.

[Lahis]

Come on to Silvermoon and see the “fun” that’s been the last few days... major alliance pop realm and literally Horde just going around all the low level zones ganking. Hasn’t really happened before, but yeah, super annoying.

Realm population doesn't matter then Xrealm zones just throw every Horde from the whole region into the same shard as you.

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Almost none of the multiplayer games give any rewards outside the dopamine rush of defeating an opponent, yet they're still quite successful regardless.

You got the Call of Duty games, the Battlefield games, Overwatch, battle royales, etcs, and you can't take anything out of the match with you. No, a few skins is barely a reward.

Every single one of those games have battle passes and other grinds that reward you for winning.

[therealbowser]

Do we know something about warmode in Shadowlands?

Will the alliance recieve +30% bonus during the whole expansion again?

Yes, probably, since Horde dominates PvP. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want an experience bonus so badly just play Alliance... but don't come crying when you get ganked over and over because everyone else on the Alliance is sitting on PvE mode.

Complaining about the losing side getting perks to try and convince them to exist in PvP is asinine. Get over it. Warmode isn't "experience" mode. It's PvP mode. If you aren't using warmode for PvP you are doing it wrong.

[The Butt Witch]

Realm population doesn't matter then Xrealm zones just throw every Horde from the whole region into the same shard as you.

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Every single one of those games have battle passes and other grinds that reward you for winning.

Who gives a shit about those? The only real reward is something that increases player power. The feeling of progression.

[therealbowser]

Like I said, I play Alliance and hardly ever get ganked.

People would never play ANY content if it didn't give rewards.

It's more that people will use the route that is most efficient. Hopping into PvP for "fun" when you are getting ganked and losing time fighting players is not something people are typically gonna do while leveling. Not to mention that, unfortunately, this game has become more about being efficient than having fun. Even if you hardly ever get ganked, the risk is there and PvP tends to be a scenario of when it rains, it pours. You either get totally ignored or you get harassed for an hour or more.

I mean... we're talking about BFA content, though, right? For pre-BFA content, it's going to be dead, empty worlds where you aren't going to run into players on either faction in the wild, much less get ganked. If we're talking BFA and you aren't running into Horde... then you must be pretty lucky, or the horde must just be asleep. I can't say I had the same experience as you, though I haven't been playing for a few months either.

[Lahis]

Who gives a shit about those? The only real reward is something that increases player power. The feeling of progression.

Judging by the sales numbers of said battle passes and loot boxes, millions of players do.

And CoD and BF DO award you power for grinding: weapons and attachments are locked behind the progression.

[VinceVega]

Like I said, I play Alliance and hardly ever get ganked.

People would never play ANY content if it didn't give rewards.

I don't see wPVP as content in itself rather the way i consume other content like leveling. It is a tool not the device itself. Arena, BG, Raid, 5-Mans, Leveling, Farming etc.
And wPVP is a prefered way of consuming it. Gives a bit of danger. Sometimes i like it. My horde char has it enabled since the beginning of BfA... and i think i would keep it enabled even if the experience boost would not be

[THEORACLE64]

Realm population doesn't matter then Xrealm zones just throw every Horde from the whole region into the same shard as you.

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Yeah, I know... Just that I've never seen it this bad before, but it generally is major Alliance pop (regardless of sharding).

[Segus1992]

Come on to Silvermoon and see the “fun” that’s been the last few days... major alliance pop realm and literally Horde just going around all the low level zones ganking. Hasn’t really happened before, but yeah, super annoying.

The only difference between servers is if you're in another region or if you're RP. All other servers share the same War Mode.

Almost none of the multiplayer games give any rewards outside the dopamine rush you get from defeating an opponent, yet they're still quite successful regardless.

You got the Call of Duty games, the Battlefield games, Overwatch, battle royales, etcs, and you can't take anything out of the match with you. No, a few skins is barely a reward.

Yes, they definitely do. Take out of the match? Difference with an MMO is that the entire game IS the match. You get BOMBARDED with rewards in the matches themselves in the games you mention. There's no difference except that in a game where both PvP and PvE exist, those rewards are often applicable to both.

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I don't see wPVP as content in itself rather the way i consume other content like leveling. It is a tool not the device itself. Arena, BG, Raid, 5-Mans, Leveling, Farming etc.
And wPVP is a prefered way of consuming it. Gives a bit of danger. Sometimes i like it. My horde char has it enabled since the beginning of BfA... and i think i would keep it enabled even if the experience boost would not be

Even if you don't see it that way, fact is that having War Mode active hinders your progress. The bonus (10%) was implemented to counteract that to make it feel like you aren't punishing yourself for having it on. That bonus was later expanded & increased because the faction representation was heavily skewed.

[The Butt Witch]

Judging by the sales numbers of said battle passes and loot boxes, millions of players do.

And CoD and BF DO award you power for grinding: weapons and attachments are locked behind the progression.

They're playing the game for the dopamine rush, not for these rewards. No one says "I just have to win 1000 matches, and I get a battle pass". And the attachments and weapons are small upgrades, they're not going to make you that powerful compared to a new player. Only Planetside 2 gives significant upgrades that make you pretty much invincible in 1v1 vs. a new player.

[THEORACLE64]

The only difference between servers is if you're in another region or if you're RP. All other servers share the same War Mode.

Sweetie, I know - that's kind of my point. It's always been primarily Alliance pop regardless of sharding, but for some reason the last few days have been persistent incels ganking people.

[Raisei]

If you are in a fair fight, you didnt plan it properly.

I always do WQs in a party, and we sweep throu the unwashed masses of hordes like a thunderstorm leaving naught but corpses in our wake.

We came, we saw, we conquered.

Well, I am barely PvPing as it is, I farmed for Blood of the Enemy and that useless Essence from Nazjatar that required doing the World PvP Quests. Complenism mostly, though Blood is my BiS Major as UH DK.

I think it is not so much about fairness, I want to be challenged by what I do and I am not inclined to bully weaker enemies unless a quest forces me to do it. If I wanna kill enemies left and right that can't scratch my health I can just as well do that with low level PvE mobs, at least I am not wasting other peoples time with that. I don't do that because it bores me.
Hunting solo players with a group in World PvP is the same. Sure you get results, but the challenge is zero, yet that is how World PvP is meant to be done.

If it were any other way, the amount of kills needed for the weekly quests would be much lower or a solo player would actually get some kind of mechanic that protects them from grouped people. Like an addendum to the WM buff: "If you are attacked by a person in a group while not grouped, gain a shield equal to 5 times your health and immunity to crowd control effects for 2 min" Unlikely to safe that player if he stays and fights, but he could at least waste the time of the attackers in an equal amount.