[UK] General Election 2019

[LeGin Tufnel]

After being in power for the last few decades, new labour and the conservatives though it would be fun to change the eduction system to oppose everything they believe.

Its a prank, bro,

LOL

You do appreciate Dribbles isn't trolling?

Dribbles genuinely holds extreme right wing views and believes that the state indoctrinates children with left wing ideology in secondary and tertiary education.

You genuinely hold extreme left wing views and believe entirely the opposite.

@dribbles meet @CommunismWillWin

[JohnBrown1917]

LOL

You do appreciate Dribbles isn't trolling?

Dribbles genuinely holds extreme right wing views and believes that the state indoctrinates children with left wing ideology in secondary and tertiary education.

You genuinely hold extreme left wing views and believe entirely the opposite.

@dribbles meet @CommunismWillWin

When did I ever say dribbles was trolling? Did you not read my posts or do you not understand that is was sarcasm?

[Theodarzna]

General election 2019: Labour to change strategy with two weeks to go, I'm afraid this is too late. Remainers have probably wrecked the biggest political opportunity in generations. Those who saw this coming a mile off warned of it and were demonized. Those who engaged in a deliberate policy of casting as lumpen reactionaries the majority of people who voted to leave and demanded their votes be ignored will go on to claim the election result just confirms all their prejudices and they has nothing to do with driving them away. In the end Labour vs. Conservative isn't the fundamental issue, its Brexit.

Nobody will believe with any credulity that Labour will not betray Brexit, and Lord Adonis gave away the game when he bluntly told Leavers not to vote Labour and that Labour would stop Brexit. Now that support in those northern English heartlands has collapsed the party panics at the 11th hour to try and walk back its nakedly obvious Remain leanings.

Despite integrity of Corbyn, despite noble policy platforms that would materially benefit working class whose interests he does sincerely advanced throughout his entire political career, it will all be ratfucked by myopic narcissism of professional "left" technocrats, activists & micro celebs.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Despite integrity of Corbyn, despite noble policy platforms that would materially benefit working class whose interests he does sincerely advanced throughout his entire political career, it will all be ratfucked by myopic narcissism of professional "left" technocrats, activists & micro celebs.

The fuck are you talking about?

A Labour majority (which, despite reservations, I wouldn't object to) is about to be "ratfucked" by swathes of traditional Northern Labour voters, voting Tory.

[Theodarzna]

The fuck are you talking about?

A Labour majority (which, despite reservations, I wouldn't object to) is about to be "ratfucked" by swathes of traditional Northern Labour voters, voting Tory.

A party is not owed fidelity by voters, a party must earn votes. This is the most curious attitude that has emerged; acutely expressed among what Thomas Picketty called the "Brahmin Left", the kind of Neo-Liberal Professional Managerial types, Blairites and in America the Clintonites. This unique idea that it is the voters who have a duty to a party not a party with a duty to earn voters.

[JohnBrown1917]

A party is not owed fidelity by voters, a party must earn votes. This is the most curious attitude that has emerged; acutely expressed among what Thomas Picketty called the "Brahmin Left", the kind of Neo-Liberal Professional Managerial types, Blairites and in America the Clintonites. This unique idea that it is the voters who have a duty to a party not a party with a duty to earn voters.

If a party loses the part of its base to a bunch of racist far right fucks, nothing will gain them back. Better go after the people who rarely or do not vote.


This is not like the US where the democrats only pander to the rich, thus not giving most people a reason to vote at all. Labour has not been this far to the left in decades. I'd love it if they go even further, but that won't happen. The only other option is to start becoming more conservative and go back to the blair era.... which i'm not sure how the working class is supposed to benefit from that. The biggest contributor to labour losing votes is people on either side who want to leave/remain without another referendum and the all the smears from the media, just look at our friend Monster Hunter here who laps it up



But yes, anybody in the working class voting for the tories over labour is actvilly fucking themselves over. Has nothing to do with "owing' anybodies vote, its about voting for your self interests. Something the rich(tories and Libdems) are really good at.

[Theodarzna]

If a party loses the part of its base to a bunch of racist far right fucks, nothing will gain them back. Better go after the people who rarely or do not vote.


This is not like the US where the democrats only pander to the rich, thus not giving most people a reason to vote at all. Labour has not been this far to the left in decades. I'd love it if they go even further, but that won't happen. The only other option is to start becoming more conservative and go back to the blair era.... which i'm not sure how the working class is supposed to benefit from that.

If Brexit is so much less important than stopping evil racists than why not become staunchly Leave if the issue is so unimportant compared to that? The problem is you are stuck in a purely two way thinking, not realizing its not really a sliding scale.

So I guess the real question is, if stopping evil Racists is so important; more important than Brexit, why won't Labour cast its Remainers aside and actually follow through with its 2017 era pledge to honour the referendum? Labour promised to honour the referendum result, supported leaving in their 2017 manifesto then once elected blocked a deal, blocked no deal, blocked an election until they run out of excuses, kicked 5M Labour leavers in the teeth. Did they think that would be without consequence?

[JohnBrown1917]

If Brexit is so much less important than stopping evil racists than why not become staunchly Leave if the issue is so unimportant compared to that? The problem is you are stuck in a purely two way thinking, not realizing its not really a sliding scale.

They are more than racist, or do you think economic issues not matter anymore? I know you never pay attention to that, but at least try for once.

So I guess the real question is, if stopping evil Racists is so important; more important than Brexit, why won't Labour cast its Remainers aside and actually follow through with its 2017 era pledge to honour the referendum? Labour promised to honour the referendum result, supported leaving in their 2017 manifesto then once elected blocked a deal, blocked no deal, blocked an election until they run out of excuses, kicked 5M Labour leavers in the teeth. Did they think that would be without consequence?

It would be a good idea to actually not focuc on 1 issue.


And if you think the breexit thing is just about leaving vs remain and not the sort of deal they where going with? The deal they had was terrible, leaving without a deal would also be terrible. Its not that simple.

[Jessicka]

General election 2019: Labour to change strategy with two weeks to go, I'm afraid this is too late. Remainers have probably wrecked the biggest political opportunity in generations. Those who saw this coming a mile off warned of it and were demonized. Those who engaged in a deliberate policy of casting as lumpen reactionaries the majority of people who voted to leave and demanded their votes be ignored will go on to claim the election result just confirms all their prejudices and they has nothing to do with driving them away. In the end Labour vs. Conservative isn't the fundamental issue, its Brexit.

Nobody will believe with any credulity that Labour will not betray Brexit, and Lord Adonis gave away the game when he bluntly told Leavers not to vote Labour and that Labour would stop Brexit. Now that support in those northern English heartlands has collapsed the party panics at the 11th hour to try and walk back its nakedly obvious Remain leanings.

Despite integrity of Corbyn, despite noble policy platforms that would materially benefit working class whose interests he does sincerely advanced throughout his entire political career, it will all be ratfucked by myopic narcissism of professional "left" technocrats, activists & micro celebs.

Already old news. The latest polling has seen the Tories drop points with their incessant reminders this week that they hate poor people and they hate the north.

[Theodarzna]

They are more than racist, or do you think economic issues not matter anymore? I know you never pay attention to that, but at least try for once.

It would be a good idea to actually not focuc on 1 issue.

And if you think the breexit thing is just about leaving vs remain and not the sort of deal they where going with? The deal they had was terrible, leaving without a deal would also be terrible. Its not that simple.

I think you are trying to both apply "What's the matter with Kansas logic" while ignoring it applies to yourself, either that or you view all issues and all politics as fundamentally a choice between good and infinite evil. Which really takes deliberation, debate and honestly democracy out of well... democracy.

[Kallisto]

If Brexit is so much less important than stopping evil racists than why not become staunchly Leave if the issue is so unimportant compared to that? The problem is you are stuck in a purely two way thinking, not realizing its not really a sliding scale.

So I guess the real question is, if stopping evil Racists is so important; more important than Brexit, why won't Labour cast its Remainers aside and actually follow through with its 2017 era pledge to honour the referendum? Labour promised to honour the referendum result, supported leaving in their 2017 manifesto then once elected blocked a deal, blocked no deal, blocked an election until they run out of excuses, kicked 5M Labour leavers in the teeth. Did they think that would be without consequence?

Because Brexiteers and racists are one and the same.

[JohnBrown1917]

I think you are trying to both apply "What's the matter with Kansas logic" while ignoring it applies to yourself, either that or you view all issues and all politics as fundamentally a choice between good and infinite evil. Which really takes deliberation, debate and honestly democracy out of well... democracy.

I truly have no idea what you're on about this time, but it did not adress anything I said.

[Theodarzna]

Already old news. The latest polling has seen the Tories drop points with their incessant reminders this week that they hate poor people and they hate the north.

I say that they will win by pure luck and Labour's internal divisions with Blairites more intent on defeating Corbyn and the plastics of London and such having an uncertain stance on Brexit. Tories will win by luck, not skill, or even good management. Their only thing to really run on is that they for sure are going to try and deliver Brexit where Labour probably would overturn it, and Lib-Dems overtly want to, where as the Blairites covertly want to and Corbyn probably should be a Leaver but has to content with the Neo-Liberal zombies in his midst.

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Because Brexiteers and racists are one and the same.

Well then, tell Labour to go full Remain and inform the electorate that voted Leave exactly what they think of them.

[JohnBrown1917]

I say that they will win by pure luck and Labour's internal divisions with Blairites more intent on defeating Corbyn and the plastics of London and such having an uncertain stance on Brexit. Tories will win by luck, not skill, or even good management. Their only thing to really run on is that they for sure are going to try and deliver Brexit where Labour probably would overturn it, and Lib-Dems overtly want to, where as the Blairites covertly want to and Corbyn probably should be a Leaver but has to content with the Neo-Liberal zombies in his midst.

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Well then, tell Labour to go full Remain and inform the electorate that voted Leave exactly what they think of them.

Nobody here is denying blairites are ghouls, but corbyn and his allies are in full controll of the party. he is also honest with his stance on brexit, it has nothing with the blair leftovers. But if you can't see that no-deal and the current deal made by the conservatives are just not acceptable to him, then I don't know what to say.


Leave won with a tiny margin, and no vote has been held on what kind of brexit they even wanted. Politics is not as simple as you think it is. Its not neo-liberals versus everybody else[and the tories are in camp neo-liberal, incase you did not know].

[Jessicka]

I say that they will win by pure luck and Labour's internal divisions with Blairites more intent on defeating Corbyn and the plastics of London and such having an uncertain stance on Brexit. Tories will win by luck, not skill, or even good management. Their only thing to really run on is that they for sure are going to try and deliver Brexit where Labour probably would overturn it, and Lib-Dems overtly want to, where as the Blairites covertly want to and Corbyn probably should be a Leaver but has to content with the Neo-Liberal zombies in his midst.

Parliament will be hung again. There's an old addage that oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them; and the Tories are doing everything they can to lose it. They have one policy, 'Get Brexit Done' which isn't even a policy, it's a soundbite. The reality is that they're relying on 'anyone but Corbyn' and years of press aggression to feed into it. But now people are getting to see 'anyone but Corbyn' is Boris, a blathering, incoherent, lying drunkard; with his posse of incompetent bigots.

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Well then, tell Labour to go full Remain and inform the electorate that voted Leave exactly what they think of them.

Look where 'full remain' has the Lib Dems. They're a national irrelevance. Pragmatism was always the better stance.

[BloodyAngel12]

But yes, anybody in the working class voting for the tories over labour is actvilly fucking themselves over. Has nothing to do with "owing' anybodies vote, its about voting for your self interests. Something the rich(tories and Libdems) are really good at.

But Muh Brexit!!1

[Blur4stuff]

I honestly hope you guys don't get american style healthcare.

fucking hell...

[JohnBrown1917]

I honestly hope you guys don't get american style healthcare.

fucking hell...

A conservative or even an Conservative+lib dem gov might just do that.

[Huehuecoyotl]

I honestly hope you guys don't get american style healthcare.

fucking hell...

American style healthcare is MUCH better at achieving its primary purpose.

It just happens that its primary purpose is funneling money into the pockets of healthcare providers. Not, you know, actually looking after sick people. That comes a very distant second.

[dribbles]

No more "Gaukeward squad"

SW Herts voting intention:-

CON: 50% (-8)
LAB: 17% (-9)
IND (D. Gauke): 16% (+16)
LDEM: 13% (+1)
GRN: 2% (-1)

and well done Beaconsfield

CON: 53% (-12)
IND (D. Grieve): 36% (+36)
LAB: 7% (-14)
GRN: 1% (-2)

Drain the swamp!