How the hell Kael'thas went to Revendreth, meanwhile Arthas went to Maw?

[Dark Succ]

Kael'thas sold the world to the Legion in TBC. Arthas did the same after Blackrock & Roll.

One of them went to Revendreth, the other went straight for the Maw.

[Maxilian]

We are not sure if Arthas went to the Maw.

But also have in mind, that those that go to the Maw, are those that are also problematic and could bring chaos to the Shadowlands, so someone as powerful as Arthas may be deem as more troublesome than Kael'thas, so that also may be a reason why they may end up in different places.

[Uko]

Magisters terrace was merely a setback clearly.

[Florena]

It may mean that there's a possibility of redemption for Kael'thas but that Arthas would never repent. Even Tirion realized there was no redeeming Arthas in Icecrown questing. Not that they've shied away from retcons in the past.

[Devonitar]

Kael'thas sold the world to the Legion in TBC. Arthas did the same after Blackrock & Roll.

Which ultimately was rather inconsequential, since other than pissing some blood elves and naaru off and visiting some island in the middle of nowhere Burning Legion has accomplished nothing. Heck, it even helped the blood elves with a restored Sunwell. Plus Kael'thas's actions could kinda maybe in some way be explained by some "greater good".

Meanwhile Arthas threw a braty fit, murdered some people, sold his soul to some evil, and then became that evil to murder even more people. His actions could be explained by being a dick.

[Bosen]

Mechanically,I think its is probably because Elves have a longer lifespan,so he has years and lifetimes more of good deeds than any mortal would,although that's kind of a morally unfair way to judge it.

[Guyviroth]

It may mean that there's a possibility of redemption for Kael'thas but that Arthas would never repent. Even Tirion realized there was no redeeming Arthas in Icecrown questing. Not that they've shied away from retcons in the past.

See, this is what I disagree on. Before Arthas died, when he told his father "Is it over," he was, IMO, relieved to be rid of being the Lich King/having his soul freed from Frostmourne--a step towards penance. Kael, however, gladly sold his soul to KJ for power.

[keelr]

A slaps a person.
B slaps a person, then rapes the person, then kills the person.

Should A get the same amount of years in prison as B?

[Itori]

Kaelthas as a skyrim looking vsmpire lord sitting on a throne looking like kain from soul reaver is a pretty cool image though? Arthas can go do pally things in the maw xD

[Kyphael]

Kael'thas had malicious intent but was never able to execute his master's master plan. Arthas actually murdered people, by no one's fault than his own, whether he allowed his soul taken or not. Hell, Illidan has killed more people and been responsible for more deaths over his lifespan than Kael'thas.

[Nerovar]

People tend to play down Arthas' deeds all the time and I say this as a big Arthas fan. He wasn't mind-controlled by Ner'zhul. He was only susceptible to his whispers because of all the things he's done up to the point when he claimed the sword. That's what makes his character interesting in the first place. His slow fall to evil. If you reduce it to "he got mindcontrolled so he isn't responsible" then you're basically ignoring all of his character development.

[AcidicSyn]

If Kael'thas had attempted multiple genocides and nearly been successful in several of those attempts I'm sure he'd have been just as condemned as Arthas was. However he didn't and wasn't. Kaels motives were similar to Illidans really, always for the sake of his peoples survival in some form, and power. He went insane, but wasn't corrupted. I speculate that he went to Revendreth due to being unable to let go of his pride, nor his hatred of those who he feels forced him down his path (I also speculate that the "old enemy" he is supposed to be fighting in Revendreth is Garithos).

Arthas began lying and committing atrocities long before ever gripping Frontmourns hilt. Masscareing civilians, betraying soldiers in his employ, friends, mentors, etc. If he hadn't become the Lich King, I suspect he'd have turned out like AU Yrel.

[cparle87]

Kael'thas had malicious intent but was never able to execute his master's master plan. Arthas actually murdered people, by no one's fault than his own, whether he allowed his soul taken or not. Hell, Illidan has killed more people and been responsible for more deaths over his lifespan than Kael'thas.

Considering Illidan is one of two people known for the complete and utter destruction of a planet single handed, the other being Sargeras, you're definitely right. Also poster #7 had a point. Kael'thas lived centuries trying to do the right thing, going insane and evil in the last few of his life. Arthas lived for maybe thirty years and in the last sixth of his life murdered four countries, give or take, with plans to murder the world.

[Kathranis]

The Arbiter determined that Kael'thas is redeemable but Arthas is not. Simple as that.

Kael'thas was twisted by fel magic and deceived by Kil'jaeden, but he made those decisions because he thought it would bring salvation to his people. He was prideful, paranoid, and eventually broken in body and mind, but nothing he did compared to the sins of Arthas.

Arthas was a cruel and unrepentant monster who committed multiple acts of genocide and willingly shed his own humanity, believing it to be weakness. He was truly a megalomaniac and desired only to consolidate all of Azeroth under his command and remake it in his own image.

[Kyphael]

Considering Illidan is one of two people known for the complete and utter destruction of a planet single handed, the other being Sargeras, you're definitely right. Also poster #7 had a point. Kael'thas lived centuries trying to do the right thing, going insane and evil in the last few of his life. Arthas lived for maybe thirty years and in the last sixth of his life murdered four countries, give or take, with plans to murder the world.

Yep, Kael'thas lived for thousands of years, and lost his sanity perhaps in what, the last few years after 90% of his people were exterminated while he was away from home? Who wouldn't snap?

[Deferionus]

See, this is what I disagree on. Before Arthas died, when he told his father "Is it over," he was, IMO, relieved to be rid of being the Lich King/having his soul freed from Frostmourne--a step towards penance. Kael, however, gladly sold his soul to KJ for power.

Was also my interpretation. Arthas sold his soul to stop something, but went so far to stop the action, he himself became what he was working to stop. During this process there was the whole "mind" or "soul" fusing happening within the lich king. Blizzard even said Arthas was the only thing holding the Scourge back from a full scale invasion of Azeroth back in WOTLK, and Tirion volunteered to take up the mantle to stop the Scourge from going berserk.

Arthas is my favorite character in the universe because he isn't a "simple" character. There are complex dynamics to him that Christie Golden did a good job with in her book. In a way, I hope they don't do much with him because there is a chance they could undermine what has already been a completed character story.

IF they wanted to cash in on Arthas and his popularity to pull in character, I would much prefer an AU Lordaeron expansion where things play out differently.

[avitush]

Arthas killed a lot much more people than Kael.

This. Arthas murdered his own father and wiped out pretty much the entire living populations of both Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas (aside from a tiny handful of survivors who escaped both, maybe). Not to mention that he's responsible for all of the Scourge's victims over the years since then, which would also be a significant number if you count the soldiers who died fighting them and the innocents/civilians. As Lich King, Arthas controlled the Scourge, so that blood is all on his hands.

Kael did some bad shit (mana bombing that village in Netherstorm comes to mind, and probably a lot of draenei died when he took over Tempest Keep), but I don't think he can even come close to comparing body counts with Arthas.

[cparle87]

Yep, Kael'thas lived for thousands of years, and lost his sanity perhaps in what, the last few years after 90% of his people were exterminated while he was away from home? Who wouldn't snap?

Right now I see him as a tragic character, based on one little detail Blizzard has always withheld from us. Did Kael'thas know that Kil'jaeden, the demonlord he had pledged his loyalty to, was the one who literally created the Lich King and masterminded the destruction his people as merely a step in summoning Archimonde to destroy the world? If he didn't, it's even more tragic, since Kael'thas ended up unknowingly serving his people's destroyer. If he did, then it completely changes the paradigm and I, at least, would lose all sympathy for him.

- - - Updated - - -

This. Arthas murdered his own father and wiped out pretty much the entire living populations of both Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas (aside from a tiny handful of survivors who escaped both, maybe). Not to mention that he's responsible for all of the Scourge's victims over the years since then, which would also be a significant number if you count the soldiers who died fighting them and the innocents/civilians. As Lich King, Arthas controlled the Scourge, so that blood is all on his hands.

Kael did some bad shit (mana bombing that village in Netherstorm comes to mind, and probably a lot of draenei died when he took over Tempest Keep), but I don't think he can even come close to comparing body counts with Arthas.

No one died in Tempest Keep. It was manned by one naaru who deliberately let himself be caught. What we could lay at his feet is how many of Velen's people died trying to steal the Exodar, in the crash caused by the blood elves, and in the following war with them across Azuremyst and Bloodmyst.

[chrisisvacant]

A slaps a person.
B slaps a person, then rapes the person, then kills the person.

Should A get the same amount of years in prison as B?

Actually:

A slaps a person and then calls his buddy to beat the shit out of the person and kill them.


So yeah.

[keelr]

Kael'thas sold the world to the Legion in TBC. Arthas did the same after Blackrock & Roll.

One of them went to Revendreth, the other went straight for the Maw.

Yes but while Kael'thas failed to successfully let the Legion invade azeroth, just after he was killed in Netherstorm, Arthas succesfully completed the given task, then returned to Northrend where he took his previous jailer's place and totally went independent from both Nerzhul and the Legion and with the scourge, he commited countless crimes all over Azeroth.