How do you feel about Andrew Yang's UBI of 1,000 a month for every US Adult

[Machismo]

Actually I've got it down fairly well. As well the Bank of England confirmed the fact that banks do indeed create money out of thin air while giving out loans as no bank actually uses their current cash on hand to justify a loan, they simply will the money into existence and then charge interest and expect repayment on money conjured out of thin air.

Money is created out of thin air when banks lend to their customers.

Lending that creates deposits, and not saving that does.

Saving is not a pre-condition of lending, or as a result of growth.

Given these facts Yang could just declare every American a Bank of some minor classification, and that we all simply gave a 12k loan to the government and the Government is merely paying us back at zero interest.

So... just conjure more money?

Zimbabwe would like to have a word with you.

[Daelak]

Ive never seen someone fundamentally misunderstand economics on this level, well at the same time encouraging violence. Hopefully you extremists are able to be stopped before throwing us back into an era of war. I have no idea why this forum allows violent terrorist propaganda.

I never believed I would be defending a theo post, but she's technically right. Fractional reserve banking is based upon lending out 10 times more than the deposited amount of money in any bank, either bought from the Federal Reserve and paying them the federal funds rate.

[Machismo]

I never believed I would be defending a theo post, but she's technically right. Fractional reserve banking is based upon lending out 10 times more than the deposited amount of money in any bank, either bought from the Federal Reserve and paying them the federal funds rate.

And we've seen the ramifications of heavy leverage in such circumstances.

Now, if we are going by what Theo decreees... apply that 200+ million people. This is a society that cannot even stop using credit cards, and she wants to give them the power to simply wipe away debt and grow wealth on a whim.

This goes way beyond the realm of "fiat currency" and is simply saying that wealth is simply in the eye of the beholder.

[Theodarzna]

I never believed I would be defending a theo post, but she's technically right. Fractional reserve banking is based upon lending out 10 times more than the deposited amount of money in any bank, either bought from the Federal Reserve and paying them the federal funds rate.

Not just the nature of fractional reserve banking, but just the endless studies that show that no loan officer bases their decision to grant a loan based on if the bank actually has that much money. Heck I favor debt cancellation also on the pure ground that in almost every case the creditor didn't even have the money to give out in the first place so that money wasn't even theirs IMHO, and the morality of them demanding to be paid back at interest on money they just conjured out of nothing is absolutely wrong and shouldn't exist.

[PC2]

Actually I've got it down fairly well. As well the Bank of England confirmed the fact that banks do indeed create money out of thin air while giving out loans as no bank actually uses their current cash on hand to justify a loan, they simply will the money into existence and then charge interest and expect repayment on money conjured out of thin air.


Money is created out of thin air when banks lend to their customers.

Lending that creates deposits, and not saving that does.

Saving is not a pre-condition of lending, or as a result of growth.

Given these facts Yang could just declare every American a Bank of some minor classification, and that we all simply gave a 12k loan to the government and the Government is merely paying us back at zero interest.

Okay? Money is largely a distraction. The underlying wealth creation, usefulness of assets, and production is what matters.

[Machismo]

It has a lot more chance to be "non-violent" nowadays, because we don't literally have to go knock on people's guarded gates to be able to grab their money.

We can just tell the banks to turn over some of those digits and they'll generally comply with the law (nor do they tend to invest in strong armed security anymore nowadays either, since all the money is digital...)

What if they resist?

It always goes back to that question. That's the problem with pushing government force. At the end of the day, it's a guy with a gun, telling you to do something... or else... he will shoot you in the fucking face.

[Puupi]

Without free education and health care, 1000 per month doesn't get you far.

[OnlineSamantha]

I'm against it. From what I understand, it's supposed to replace all the current social systems like food stamps and whatnot, right? So if you're on food stamps currently, you actually get less than $1000 from this program compared to now, and if someone who doesn't receive welfare right now gets a higher value then you're just going to fall even further behind.

[Clone]

I wasn't too sure about it at first but Yang sells the idea pretty well. So I guess yes.

According to him Alaska already has a similar program.

[Theodarzna]

like a child who took one philosophy class and now thinks they understand the world, you dont understand what you think you do. Just educate your selves a bit. You are considering the physical paper that the currency is printed on to be wealth and this is grossly inaccurate.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...ial-capitalism

https://www.fool.com/how-to-invest/h...ket-works.aspx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation

A wikipedia citation presented with zero irony versus an academic journal and actual research in an actual journal of science, and the actual words of the Bank of England. Amazing. I am stunned really.

[Machismo]

I wasn't too sure about it at first but Yang sells the idea pretty well. So I guess yes.

According to him Alaska already has a similar program.

Well, Alaska pays their residents up to about $2k, and most of that comes from tax revenue generated by oil and natural gas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund

It should be noted that is not close to $12k a year, and Alaska is also a huge welfare state when it comes to federal tax revenues.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-mos...vernment/2700/

[cubby]

I think this is something every democrat should go for. Not only will it lower unemployment because people will want more money but it is a great way for more americans to start investing and saving and let their money grow interest and this will teach them how to better spend their money and also lower poverty and help out with student debt.

UBI is a terrific idea in theory, but we as a country are no where near ready to implement it.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I am in favor of it UBI yes, but I don't support Yang.

I'm a big supporter of the idea. For one, banks already invent hundreds of thousands of dollars of money all the time, every loan officer in the country essentially conjures money into existence when they hand out loans to people since its been shown by both the Bank of England and banking researchers that actually nobody makes sure they even have that much money to give out in the first place. So conjuring an extra twelve grand in cash to just helicopter out to citizens isn't that big of a deal. We pretty much already shovel out to many individuals lots of money that didn't exist until a loan officer signed a form.

It also is good for families and your average person. Most people aren't P.M.C Strivers with aspirations to "Rise through the ranks" and such, most people just want a decent and dignified life and don't particularly crave status, school rankings, or to have a serious career that turns much of a profit. Imagine if people could just work any job without worrying if that job can keep a roof over their head or food in their stomach? A whole set of cottage industries could emerge from people who then could devout a lot of time to a craft or passion without having to also work some other fulltime job just to avoid homelessness.

A UBI seems like all upsides and no downsides. Even if some people don't do anything amazing with that, so what? What was threatening them with homelessness going to do? Make them cure cancer?

No none of this bullshit is even sort of true is conspiracy theory nonsense.

[Theodarzna]

I am in favor of it UBI yes, but I don't support Yang.



No none of this bullshit is even sort of true is conspiracy theory nonsense.

I later cited actual research and the Bank of England on that, so actually, take it up with them.

[Machismo]

That's the thing. If they want to resist they'll have to be the ones shoving guns in people's faces to prevent it from happening.

People don't physically own their own wealth or money any longer... It is all in digital space.

The banks generally are not going to physically 'resist' state law either on behest of their clients... No bank director is going to even risk taking a free ticket into a jail cell for a customer's bank account.

No, they can simply hide their money, or tell people to, "Fuck off." They can move their money into secured accounts, move it overseas, liquidate it, buy art, stash it in a bunker.

We know this, because it's been done a thousand times before.

So, you are the one who wants to use force and violence, not them. Don't be surprised when people also defend themselves and their vast wealth, when you try to violently take it from them.

[Theodarzna]

That's the thing. If they want to resist they'll have to be the ones shoving guns in people's faces to prevent it from happening.

People don't physically own their own wealth or money any longer... It is all in digital space.

The banks generally are not going to physically 'resist' state law either on behest of their clients... No bank director is going to even risk taking a free ticket into a jail cell for a customer's bank account.

AnCap'ism and Ayn Rand will mess you up more than Black Tar Heroine I swear.

[Machismo]

AnCap'ism and Ayn Rand will mess you up more than Black Tar Heroine I swear.

You seem to forget, that people will go to great lengths to protect what is theirs. Your way will require significant bloodshed, all in the name of welfare for you.

[Theodarzna]

Okay? Money is largely a distraction. The underlying wealth creation, usefulness of assets, and production is what matters.

What you describe is a distraction. Money is literally invented from nothing; money is given out that doesn't exist. And under that "metric"--I loathe your worship of P.M.C lexicon--than giving everyone in the country 12k a year is a far greater form of wealth creation.

- - - Updated - - -

You seem to forget, that people will go to great lengths to protect what is theirs. Your way will require significant bloodshed, all in the name of welfare for you.

Nah, I am okay with simply shunning, exile and outlawing someone. Simply put if they don't want to be in society they should not enjoy the privileges and protections of it. The Medieval concept of Outlawing someone really is very useful. If they don't want to be in society, than by all means.

[Machismo]

What you describe is a distraction. Money is literally invented from nothing; money is given out that doesn't exist. And under that "metric"--I loathe your worship of P.M.C lexicon--than giving everyone in the country 12k a year is a far greater form of wealth creation.

- - - Updated - - -



Nah, I am okay with simply shunning, exile and outlawing someone. Simply put if they don't want to be in society they should not enjoy the privileges and protections of it. The Medieval concept of Outlawing someone really is very useful. If they don't want to be in society, than by all means.

What if they resist?

You forget, these are the people with the means.

[Theodarzna]

What if they resist?

You forget, these are the people with the means.

Resist what? People shunning them and being outlawed? How would they resist? By saying "Ummmm nooooo". Outlawing just means they are no longer under the protection of the law. They no longer have the rights and privileges of communal membership. If they don't want to be in the Community, well that comes at a cost.