Should deeper storytelling be moved to books, short stories and other mediums?

[Aurabolt]

...Greetings, my Warcraft Loremasters.




I know this is a bit of a controversial question for some but I feel like at this point it's worth serious discussion and consideration.


As we all know, there are limitations that come with telling a fleshed-out story in a video game and let alone an MMO. The Warcraft Universe is no exception and more so since Cataclysm. There have been so many branching storylines it's a shame so much has been left behind.


On the one hand I do agree with those who say Blizzard needs to be careful not to religate too much storytelling to books or novelia. I don't think they've made that mistake yet personally on that note. With the Cataclysm to MOP transition they included the Theramore Bombing as a pre-expansion event to explain Jaina's Heel turn. The immediate aftermath is delved into more in Tides of War. My point is there was overlap and that's important. This was repeated with the Legion to BFA transition with Elegy/A Good War and their in-game equivelants.


Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this but I believe The Shattering was the first novel that covered a lot of huge lore development that didn't get overlap in-game. Stuff from Magni being petrified and Moira returning to Ironforge to Thrall stepping down and naming Garrosh his successor, stuff like that. A LOT of stuff went down in the novel and I remember a lot of folks on MMO-C being pissed off because almost all of what was covered in that novel didn't get overlap in-game. I pity those who ignore or dismissed Lore expanded on and explained outside the game personally on that note.

I think all of us can agree there is only so much time you can give everything in the game itself. Some stories would be better explained via a different medium. It would also allow Blizz to actually go back and clean up a lot of loose ends from past expansions while still moving the current story forward at the same time. The can also explain some moments that happened in game from different perspectives and properly canonize certain cross-faction events such is most of BFA prettymuch (Blizzard confirmed Lorewise, the Alliance won both Warfronts for example).

Some stuff you can make a short story, other stuff you need a full novel to explain things in detail. Hell, the first WarCraft game was used as a base to make a movie. I just think the WarCraft Universe has gotten so big, it needs to be allowed to freely expand into other mediums is all. That's just me though. I attached a poll to this to get other thoughts on the matter.

[Kelathos]

I thought... for WoW's entire history, all the deeper storytelling was already buried in other mediums. That the dev's struggle is to try to add depth to the in-game presentation.

As for... should they? Where does the most critical lore belong? As FF14 Shadowbringers eloquently proves, it ALL belongs in-game. Devs just need to prioritize it, and hire the skill needed to tell it.

[thesmall001]

There is fundamentally no comparison between a medium where you can contrast character internal rationale and their external actions with regards to immersing you in that characters story. So, I genuinely believe, our player characters should only ever be reacting to circumstances dictated by the events portrayed in books whilst loosely depicted in the lore and the narrative designers just have to be aware of that more so they don't tell stories like BfA where the rationale can't be easily depicted in a few lines.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Why can't we have both?


Both books/short stories/other mediums and in-game?


Doesn't seem too difficult.

[Trassk]

Let's be honest, this game is incapable of having deep narrative as a game. The only time we see the thoughts of characters is in other mediums like books, short stories and comics

[TheFirstOnes]

I feel like it should be told in books, and retold in game, so the player can have a complete understanding over the games story without having the need to be forced to buy shit outside of the game.

For example: The Pantheon's death. It's good to explain it in a book, but when it's directly contradicted in game as "Oh wait, Sargeras stole and had their souls the entire time", then players get confused. How about this, tell us about this early on in 7.3 (As it was on live), and then, one you progress further into the story, then give us a questline where you play as Sargeras, and it ends in a cinematic where Sargeras demolishes the Pantheon, afterwards, show us how the Legion stole the stoles, and that'll hence tie itself more into Antorus, and how we practically knew the way towards freeing the Titan Pantheon from their torment.

But no, we instead got the good ole' "The Titan Pantheon are trapped, but it's okay. Just save them by beating the villain up. "

[PenguinChan]

Deeper storytelling should be in game but we don't really get that as much, as you already know. We have a lot of lore and characters in the game but honestly, things skip around and just happen without explanation.

[Maljinwo]

I appreciate having books and other materials from WoW, but the main storyline should be in-game. But considering how many retcons they are making, I don't think i'll care enough for consistency and good writing anymore

[Talrath]

If the player has to buy books to get extra lore than that means that most people wont even bother to get invested into the lore.

[Flurryfang]

...Greetings, my Warcraft Loremasters.




I know this is a bit of a controversial question for some but I feel like at this point it's worth serious discussion and consideration.


As we all know, there are limitations that come with telling a fleshed-out story in a video game and let alone an MMO. The Warcraft Universe is no exception and more so since Cataclysm. There have been so many branching storylines it's a shame so much has been left behind.


On the one hand I do agree with those who say Blizzard needs to be careful not to religate too much storytelling to books or novelia. I don't think they've made that mistake yet personally on that note. With the Cataclysm to MOP transition they included the Theramore Bombing as a pre-expansion event to explain Jaina's Heel turn. The immediate aftermath is delved into more in Tides of War. My point is there was overlap and that's important. This was repeated with the Legion to BFA transition with Elegy/A Good War and their in-game equivelants.


Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this but I believe The Shattering was the first novel that covered a lot of huge lore development that didn't get overlap in-game. Stuff from Magni being petrified and Moira returning to Ironforge to Thrall stepping down and naming Garrosh his successor, stuff like that. A LOT of stuff went down in the novel and I remember a lot of folks on MMO-C being pissed off because almost all of what was covered in that novel didn't get overlap in-game. I pity those who ignore or dismissed Lore expanded on and explained outside the game personally on that note.

I think all of us can agree there is only so much time you can give everything in the game itself. Some stories would be better explained via a different medium. It would also allow Blizz to actually go back and clean up a lot of loose ends from past expansions while still moving the current story forward at the same time. The can also explain some moments that happened in game from different perspectives and properly canonize certain cross-faction events such is most of BFA prettymuch (Blizzard confirmed Lorewise, the Alliance won both Warfronts for example).

Some stuff you can make a short story, other stuff you need a full novel to explain things in detail. Hell, the first WarCraft game was used as a base to make a movie. I just think the WarCraft Universe has gotten so big, it needs to be allowed to freely expand into other mediums is all. That's just me though. I attached a poll to this to get other thoughts on the matter.

While i get, that it is much easeier to tell lore and stories in books and short stories, i think it is allowing Blizzard to take the easy decision out, if we just move the deeper storytelling to books instead of having it ingame(some might say it already have happened).

Especially since you CAN tell deep narratives in games, especially in MMOs. Nothing stops side quests being filled to the brim with actual story events, nobody loses anything if we have quests only for telling story in the big cities(the magni/moira situation is one that comes to mind) and it is as easy to make as ever, since machinima creaters have made story content for years, that could sometimes just be plotted into the game.

I think it is alright to expect more when it comes the amount of story actually being told in-game, and i think game becomes better for it. I think the worst expansions, when it comes to lore, have come about because Blizzard have forgotten to connect the story to the actual game, instead allocating it books or short stories. If you do not inform ALL the players, why something is important or why we should care about some characters, we really never get connected to the things we should care about.


...That said, i think we can find a middle way. Nothing really stops Blizzard from creating stories like the Med'an and Sunwell stories again, narratives which are happening in the world, but does not directly have to part of the greater narrative. The Sunwell raid made complete sense, even if you did not know about the comics and the same when some Med'an characters showed up. Aslong as the narrative is far enough away from any main events, i think you could easily expand the story by leagues without creating a disconnect between the players of WoW and WoW's story.

[Faroth]

To me, the game needs to do better about its in-game story. I'd point to FFXIV and SW:TOR as the examples of having a main story questline. XIV's biggest benefit is once Yoshida took over he mapped out a broad overview story skeleton for 4 expansions. As a result, the storyline is pretty detailed with elements from 3 expansions ago still having weight and presence later. WoW seems to kind of develop an expansion at a time with an approach of "what would be cool, now how to we make a story fit around that cool idea?"

As for the supplemental material, they're great for getting deeper insight to characters thoughts (and since I pointed to them, XIV does this as well with lore encyclopedias and short stories on their site as well so they've taken the page from Blizzard's book there). However, the major events that are more relevant to the game's core story need to be at least given to players with an in game cinematic to kind of catch you up if you haven't read the book. There are fan examples of this, like the mak'gara between Cairne and Garrosh in Cataclysm. Having things like that shown in game would help tie the books and game storylines together.

So I guess my position is use the supplemental short stories and novels to flesh out characters, but tighten up the main storytelling questlines in the game and give players the important story beats from the books as in game cinematics to keep them up to speed.

[Razion]

Outside lore should be mostly supplemental reading. Playing the game should get you all the info you 'need', and reading should only give you details. Things like thoughts and feelings and perspective of characters that isn't granted by a glancing mention from a quest. But playing the game should always, always be the first to give you the broad strokes and you shouldn't ever be confused about the state of affairs between major lore characters and major events because you didn't happen to pick up a book. Important information should always be readily available in-game. It feels terrible if on top of a monthly subscription you also have to buy books just to understand what's going on.

Side-stories that don't have anything to do with the major plot are a great way for books to be supplemental and not at all required reading. Things like comics featuring characters that don't make appearances in-game are a great way to pull in interest as well as not detract from people's experience who play the game. When this starts to be a problem is when these characters are brought into the game without putting all of the information players would need in the game at the same time. The longer these types of characters have story built up in outside media, the more the in-game has to catch up by basically telling you their entire life story. So I would say that side-stories should basically be one-and-done and short. Characters appear for a book, they have their one story, it's over, and they don't get another one. This way this kind of thing doesn't have to come up again. But it can be a problem if there are lingering elements in the stories that aren't dealt with. So, these kinds of short stories would have to be written carefully so these kinds of dangling plot threads aren't left around too often carelessly that they can't be cleaned up easily later if needed.

[Aucald]

Novels, comics, and short stories can supply information in ways the game itself cannot - purely expository, able to convey very dense or abstract information, and not hobbled by the requirement of player perspective in the game systems. I do think, however, that the major beats of any external material needs to have in-game representation of some kind. One shouldn't have to read "War Crimes" to understand how we got from MoP to WoD, for example; nor "Before the Storm" to understand the transition from Legion to BfA properly. Vignettes to recap the major points of the novels would be nice.

[Nerovar]

Story should be subtle and told mostly by environment, ingame books/letters/documents and quest texts. That's where most of the lore should come from. Also save cinematics for big story moments or as a rewarding end of zone culmination. I don't need cinematics about Jaina talking to Baine and her rotten Brother or Jaina touching Thrall's chunky arms (though I have to admit the Drustvar cinematic was really good).
Novels should only solve as supplementary reads that explore known events from different angles.

[Mehrunes]

How can deeper storytelling in WoW be moved anywhere when no such thing exists in the first place? Kinda putting the cart before the horse here. Also, given how OOG stories are canon as per Blizzard the last option on the poll makes little sense. Voting for it is voting in favor of headcanon.

[Combatbutler]

At this point it doesn't really matter anymore

[Rozz]

Yes, but it shouldn't be exchanged as the option suggested. I would prefer extra-media materials add on where the game cannot, offer deeper details on interactions/events, delved into more character shaping, and only add onto major events in game. I wouldn't mind if major events also happened inside of books, but those should be represented in-game if that's the case.

[Aurabolt]

Yes, but it shouldn't be exchanged as the option suggested. I would prefer extra-media materials add on where the game cannot, offer deeper details on interactions/events, delved into more character shaping, and only add onto major events in game. I wouldn't mind if major events also happened inside of books, but those should be represented in-game if that's the case.

Yeah this is why I specifically mentioned The Shattering and A Good War/Elegy. The Shattering has some MAJOR of Lore development thar happens "off screen" so to speak and though we do see the aftermath relfected in-game--Thrall steps down as Warchief and names Garrosh his successor, Baine become the Tauren Leader after Cairne dies in Mak'gora and The Council of Three Hammers forms in Ironforge when Moira suddenly returns after her father is crystalized--you'd have to read the book to know the specifics.

In comparison, the events of A Good War/Elegy gets almost fully represented in-game. I do feel like Blizzard was careful to make sure players got to experience The War of Thorns in-game and not just from the (Free) short stories that outline what happened.

If the player has to buy books to get extra lore than that means that most people wont even bother to get invested into the lore.

...You are aware there are limits to storytelling in MMOs in general, right? Take a look at most of just the faction leaders for example. Some get more development than others and it's mostly dictated by the main plot points of the current expansion among other things.

Deeper storytelling should be in game but we don't really get that as much, as you already know. We have a lot of lore and characters in the game but honestly, things skip around and just happen without explanation.

Hence why I made this thread + Poll. The proverbial Catch-22 is while deeper storytelling would be lovely, at the same time you don't want things to slow down too much either. There's still quite a few loose ends from just Cataclysm that could and should be revisited for example. We know the Cult of the Damned broke away from the Scourge after the Northrend Campaign but they're definitely still around. That's in addition to whatever The Ebon Blade as an organization been up to between Cata and Legion. Would be great if those subjects were explored.

Why can't we have both?


Both books/short stories/other mediums and in-game?


Doesn't seem too difficult.

I agree personally but clearly it is from what we're seeing. LOL.

[Kaleredar]

Deeper storytelling? Sure.


Storytelling that's integral to understanding what the hell happened in between expansions?

Absolutely not.


A book on what happened during the reign of Lei Shen thousands of years ago? That'd be neat. A book that serves as the only explanation as to what went down and why we're suddenly traveling back to an alternate Draenor in the past to pursue a guy we thought we defeated and chained up but now suddenly has the allegiance of a Bronze dragon we only knew as the guy we handed some shiny rocks to on an island? Pretty lame.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

critical lore outside game hurt the game for things like cairnes death etc, they should have additional stories and build on existing ones rather than having major plots being outside wow