Flying ruined warmode

[BeepBoo]

I want to ask, by how much percent do you think it fell?

By EXACTLY the amount that the reluctant participants who had WM on for other reasons besides actually wanting to engage in wpvp saw fit. What percentage that is doesn't matter. What matters is people now have the freedom to both get the rewards they want without having to suffer the consequences blizzard decided they should. I'm all for circumventing blizzard's attempts to coerce players into doing things they otherwise wouldn't do.

[Kagthul]

Flying didn't kill War Mode, any more than it killed wPvP in TBC.

wPvP (and War Mode) being shit killed them. Nothing else.

wPvP died the moment BGs became available. Not when flying hit almost two years later. Immediately, the moment there was PvP that wasn't shit.

Its never been anything but an excuse to gank people, outnumber them via zerg, and be shitlords.

It was never good.

Flying didn't kill it. It wasn't viable to begin with, it wasn't good to begin with. It was always bad, just like wPvP was always bad.

[Vinzora]

By EXACTLY the amount that the reluctant participants who had WM on for other reasons besides actually wanting to engage in wpvp saw fit. What percentage that is doesn't matter. What matters is people now have the freedom to both get the rewards they want without having to suffer the consequences blizzard decided they should. I'm all for circumventing blizzard's attempts to coerce players into doing things they otherwise wouldn't do.

So you admit that flying in warmode turns world pvp from unexpected and random to voluntary.

[clevin]

Blizzard has all the metrics so they can see the impact of flying on world pvp. All they would have to look at is the rate of pvp honor kills in BFA zones before and after flying. I want to ask, by how much percent do you think it fell?

You don't know and neither does anyone here so why go down this road?

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So you admit that flying in warmode turns world pvp from unexpected and random to voluntary.

You think that the attacker's desires should be privileged over the attackee. Many of us don't. I may be trying to just finish a WQ and didn't feel like going all the way back to SW to toggle WM off. Also, well, escape is a valid fight tactic in and of itself. In the real world if 5 people were coming at you with knives and bats and you could a) die or b) hop on your motorcycle and get away you'd be foolish to choose (a).

[BeepBoo]

So you admit that flying in warmode turns world pvp from unexpected and random to voluntary.

For those that want it to be voluntary instead of unexpected and random, yes. You're going to have a hard time convincing me those people should be forced to participate in it in a specific way, though. Seems like working as intended to me. The number of people who want to have random pvp encounters nearly perfectly matches the number of people having random pvp encounters.

You being upset that there aren't more people who are forced to participate yet are unwilling is a personal problem that comes with having an activity that necessitates others yet has no one else willing. Like wanting to play a game of basket ball in a neighborhood of all white kids who just want to play tennis. You don't get to dictate "HEY! You guys HAVE to play basketball!" and you shouldn't try to coerce people with rewards.

Personally, if it were between

1) I get to play basketball, but everyone there is bribed and no one actually cares or wants to play basketball
2) I don't get to play basketball and everyone is off doing things they'd rather do

I'm going for #2. Every time. I don't need a bunch of half-assed people with no passion playing the thing I love with me. That does no good and is only a hollow version of what I'm actually after. Might as well just not play at all.

[chorx]

Blizzard should tune up the war mode bonus and just kill flying with WM on.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Warmode was great during the first half of the expansion, so that counters your argument. The only difference was no flying, so it clearly has a big impact on world PvP.

"My opinion is right, yours is wrong. So there."

[Stelio Kontos]

Rated BGs and arenas are there for want actual PVP. I'm not interesting in folks crying that they can't jump lowbies or lower geared players while they're out doing quests.

If the actual "skill" of PVP matters to you, do it where it's even and show your skill, otherwise you sound like you're crying you can't gank people as easily.

[BeepBoo]

I'm talking about comparing the week before pathfinder 2 came out and a month later when most players had flying unlocked. I guarantee you the metrics would show a massive drop-off in world pvp between those two points.

And I guarantee metrics would show a massive dropoff if they had decided to remove the reward bonuses, pvp talents, etc from warmode and turn warmode into JUST a pvp toggle like /pvp back in the day while also removing flying. What is your point? That people hate wpvp but are greedy and motivated by rewards? You don't say...

That has nothing to do with flight "killing" the natural appeal of wpvp and wm.

Let me ask you this: are you fine with people who would otherwise not have WM on putting WM on strictly because they want the rewards and talents? That they would otherwise not have WM on if it offered them nothing other than "the joy of wpvp"? Why do you want to participate with people like that?

[Stickinator]

The whole point of world PvP is the concept of vulnerability and discovery. It can happen anytime when you least expect it, and that is often involuntary. Flying negates that. If you want voluntary PvP you can join a BG. It seems like many of you don't understand why we love world PvP.

I like wpvp aswell. I lvled through all my years of playing on a pvp server up till mop where i started to play with other people.
But even if you like wpvp you will not think its fun when its a high lvl char or more starting to gank you and just the npcs around so the lvling is just halted completely.

There were a 119 hunter hunting lower lvls at tarren mill for hours he flew away whenever i got there to kill him but quickly went back when he saw other lowbies around.
So yeah i dont mind wpvp or anything like that. But wpvp is only fine when stuff is somewhat equal, when there is a chance you can actually win. Getting steamrolled by 10 people when you are alone is not (ergo why people dont use warmode or just fly around).

[Drusin]

I guess pleasing the farmers who see the world as an obstacle they'd rather bypass to get their WQ chores done asap is worth destroying the immersion and joy of world PvP? I'm not sure. Also I had so much fun with the non-stop world PvP during the first month of Classic. That wouldn't be possible with flying. I really wish they would just remove flying from warmode.

It would seem to me that people didn't want to wpvp in the first place and the people you were pvping against were probably unhappy. Why do I say this? If I liked to WPVP (I don't) I'd still wpvp even if I could fly. I would figure out where everyone was at and that's where I'd be. But I don't enjoy wpvp so I use the tools available to me to avoid it. Actively avoiding engaging in an activity is a pretty good sign that someone doesn't want to do it.

[Accendor]

Warmode used to be so active in BFA with skirmishes and group wars taking place everywhere, but then it all disappeared the day flying came out. Why? Because all players now just zoom around in invincible mode in the sky from point A to point B and only land for objectives before taking off again. This really destroys the essence of world PvP in warmode. I guess pleasing the farmers who see the world as an obstacle they'd rather bypass to get their WQ chores done asap is worth destroying the immersion and joy of world PvP? I'm not sure. Also I had so much fun with the non-stop world PvP during the first month of Classic. That wouldn't be possible with flying. I really wish they would just remove flying from warmode.

It seems like you played a completely different game and a completely different warmode than most people did.

[Allinna]

It seems like you played a completely different game and a completely different warmode than most people did.

Agreed. On my servers War Mode was Horde Mode before they started offering the WM bonuses. If you DARED to go to Zandalar in War Mode you were camped mercilessly. I think OP is most likely Horde and is mad that people can escape him and his 17 friends now.

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There were a 119 hunter hunting lower lvls at tarren mill for hours he flew away whenever i got there to kill him but quickly went back when he saw other lowbies around.
So yeah i dont mind wpvp or anything like that. But wpvp is only fine when stuff is somewhat equal, when there is a chance you can actually win. Getting steamrolled by 10 people when you are alone is not (ergo why people dont use warmode or just fly around).

The way op has talked all through this thread it seems like he prefers ganking. And if anyone in Tarren Mill complained that they were getting ganked by a 119 he would sarcastically say "TuRn OfF WaRmOdE"

[Jikate-Stormrage]

I'm pretty sure warmode was created to cater to those who love world pvp, not those who hate it like you.

I’m pretty sure Island Expeditions were created for everyone, but they sucked.

So they threw a shit ton of rewards up and people started doing more of them.

Warmode was created, and most players said no thank you.

So they threw a shit ton of rewards up and people started turning it on.

Fucking magical. It’s funny that those who enjoyed WPvP turned it on. But it wasn’t until stupid amount of rewards were added that it became a “success”.

“Was created to cater to those who love WPvP”.... it appears that’s not too many players, as you complain you are having issues finding targets. If you can’t think outside of the box and find ways to kill people when they are on the ground, that’s a YOU problem.

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Right. You people can only shit on things, you don't actually have any solutions. Bye.

I’m going to assume you are just tired of responding. Otherwise, you have the worst reading comprehension I have ever seen in something walking on two legs.

If you have a problem, you do not ask for a solution from people who don’t see it as a problem.

It is not our job to make any feature a success. That responsibility rests with Blizzard.

I’ve already given my solution; to remove PvP to a PvP server (tournament server). Then they can make PvP how they truly want it to be. Anything short of that is a complete waste of time.

You want WPvP to mean something to many? My response is to fix PvP, but we both know that is not Blizzards intention. How about attacking someone in the world makes both combatants immune to any damage/healing outside of the first two to hit each other. Then you can no longer have your 20v1s.

How about take the PvE rewards out of warmode, and remove flying from WM completely? Allow toggling of WM in any inn, give it a ten minute cd. Leaving the PvE rewards there can only be seen as coercion to make people like yourself believe WM is successful. When really it isn’t, it’s leading lambs to slaughter by promising them rewards. If you have to shore up a feature that hard...it wasn’t successful in the first place.

How about remove the PvE rewards from WM and then make anyone with WM on have a 20 second cast for mounting a flying mount? Again, it’s reliant on removing the rewards.

After all, if there are SO many of you out there who truly love WPvP; you all should jump at any changes that truly put you all on your own shard. Anyone on there wants to be there cause they love it.

It would be very interesting to see how populated the shards would be without the system being held up strictly by rewards.

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Agreed. On my servers War Mode was Horde Mode before they started offering the WM bonuses. If you DARED to go to Zandalar in War Mode you were camped mercilessly. I think OP is most likely Horde and is mad that people can escape him and his 17 friends now.

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The way op has talked all through this thread it seems like he prefers ganking. And if anyone in Tarren Mill complained that they were getting ganked by a 119 he would sarcastically say "TuRn OfF WaRmOdE"

For most WPvPers, PvP means attacking someone when they least expect it. That doesn’t include bgs, because if you are in a bg, you are expecting PvP. The same for arenas and rbgs.

Having a target who is expecting to get attacked ruins the sport for them.

[Daedius]

personally i prefer the part with flying everytime but than i dont give a flying shit about warmode either most useless shit you can find imo

Eh, Warmode's a blessing for me after I realm transferred with the Guild to a PvP realm from PvE... taking a year long break to find the Guild long dissolved. I can toggle PvP whenever I want now.

[tylenol]

Easy solution would be to disable flying when you have warmode on but the problem with that is very few people would probably play with warmode on, only one way to find out, bust out the pitchforks and hit GD

[Halyon]

This is turning into some 'Millenials ruined X' stuff.

[kaminaris]

I’m pretty sure Island Expeditions were created for everyone, but they sucked.

So they threw a shit ton of rewards up and people started doing more of them.

Nothing like that ever happened, you just pulled that out of your ass. Participation rate didn't change.

Warmode was created, and most players said no thank you.

So they threw a shit ton of rewards up and people started turning it on.

No, rewards changed nothing. Just random spike when ally got first 400 ilvl item then they turned it off.

So rest of the post is based on baseless assumptions with statistics pulled from ass, as usual here on MMC where everyone have access to blizzard data.

[CrawlFromThePit]

You do know about the item you can dismount people with, right?

Yes and like you (or maybe not) I'm aware it has a maximum range that most people know about which is why they fly above that range. Thank you very much for making a literally useless post.

[Wyrt]

Since when did Warmode work right? It was a Horde dominated shitshow.