Why the Elf-human coupling hate?

[Jshadowhunter]

I'd like to see some male human - female orc going on... and before anyone says Me'dan, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT ABOMINATION. It doesn't exist.
Not to mention Garona was a half-breed to begin with.

[ravenmoon]

I'd like to see some male human - female orc going on... and before anyone says Me'dan, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT ABOMINATION. It doesn't exist.
Not to mention Garona was a half-breed to begin with.

That at least makes Me'dan half human, but quarter draenei and quarter orc if i remember rightly.

So does Me'dan actually exist in the warcraft official canon? If so how did he happen? Did medivh rape Garona? Or were they lovers at tsome poin?

[Shiza]

The hatred of Anduin is astonishing, he is actually quite likeable, which is rare for warcraft, not like his father in a good way, which is something they don't often pull off well enough. Don't get the hate there, to me he has cted quite smart and wisely but in pursuit of peace and preventing war, only going to it when absolutely necessary, and has actually been written to pull of victories like no other alliance leader has over the horde since WoW began - but maybe that makes him a Mary Sue character? I also don't understand the criticsm of having no flaws, he has loads struggles, traumas, but for a change, unlike so many other characters, he successfully overcomes them without falling.. this is not an impossible feat, we are all capable of this, it's just rare in individuals, but it is something you'd definitely want in a King.

So why the hate? especially amongst alliance fans? And while I don't have any boner for human male /elf relationships, i thought Anduin with Vaneesa Sanguinar would ahve been exciting, but more for the fact she is an orphan, a proud blood elf and the two have seemed to work together and like each other more so than the fact that she is an elf or anything like that.

Anduin is written as a morally flawless character who ends up coming off as a borderline psychopathic and narcissistic hypocrite who preaches holier than thou morals and politics for the sake of his own ego while lacking any ability to truly empathize with others, outside of the select few who compliment his ego. That is also the reason why he can't feel any empathy towards the Night Elves who lost their home and people, they don't pander his ego. He is also kind of a toxic man, who constantly falls into the misogynist trope of depicting justified female rage as women being unstable or consumed by vengeance.

[Varodoc]

Anduin is written as a morally flawless character who ends up coming off as a borderline psychopathic and narcissistic hypocrite who preaches holier than thou morals and politics for the sake of his own ego while lacking any ability to truly empathize with others, outside of the select few who compliment his ego. That is also the reason why he can't feel any empathy towards the Night Elves who lost their home and people, they don't pander his ego. He is also kind of a toxic man, who constantly falls into the misogynist trope of depicting justified female rage as women being unstable or consumed by vengeance.

> Claims Anduin is morally flawless.

> Proceeds to explain how Anduin is actually flawed.

[Kyphael]

Cause humans are gross, why ruin a good elf by putting them with a smelly human?

That's exactly why the female elves love'em, the gross, manly ruggedness, versus being with someone that is just as effeminate as the female elves themselves.

[Powerogue]

I think mainly your three observations are the reasons. Sends the sort of message that human dudes > elves, and plays into a very stereotypical fantasy of lonely men.

Nothing inherently wrong with it, but mixing it up is good. I liked the goblin and gnome duo we got from Before The Storm, hope we can see them again. (yes I know the short in-game questline, I mean again again.)

[Shiza]

> Claims Anduin is morally flawless.

> Proceeds to explain how Anduin is actually flawed.

You can comprehend the difference between the intent of a writer and what he actually depicts, right? He is intended to be morally flawless, but due to the rather problematic views of the narrative team, he comes off as borderline psychopathic, narcissistic and a toxic male. These are accidental flaws due to the flawed world views of the creators, not intended character flaws, as we can see in the fact that this flaws that I pointed out are never acknowledged in the narrative.

[Florena]

It's a fantasy cliche and also an extension of the human potential meme. The same reason why eyebrows get raised when in Avatar the lead is within a tiny amount of time more proficient at being the aliens than the actual aliens and is banging the chief's daughter. Or when Tom Cruise hooks up with the head samurai's sister. It's just stock wish fulfillment and it rubs up against the fact that where in most fantasy humans are either everymen or underdogs, in WoW, they're masters of all vocations.

In terms of the actual characters it applies to, only Vereesa and Rhonin is purely writer wish-fulfillment. Alleria and Turalyon's relationship is mostly just cliche. Beyond the Dark Portal fucks with the characters by having Turalyon chill out whereas Alleria is the one who has to learn to be calm, despite Turalyon's whole religious relevation being on the basis of orcs being inhuman, but that's the worst of it. Kael and Sylvanas's interest in humans is probably the best handled in the sense that both are actually explored in that dynamic. Nathanos, despite also being clearly something the writer is personally into, is given endless shit by elves and is also pussywhipped, whereas Kael is considered a weirdo by his people for hanging out in a human city more than his home and lusting after a woman hundreds of years younger than him.

To be fair, even after that revelation Turalyon still changed his mind in the same novel by not having all of the captured orcs executed, so I don't really see it as inconsistent that Alleria is the more angry of the two in the next novel. Once he went super saiyan and beat Doomhammer he didn't actually go through with what he initially said.

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Anduin is written as a morally flawless character who ends up coming off as a borderline psychopathic and narcissistic hypocrite who preaches holier than thou morals and politics for the sake of his own ego while lacking any ability to truly empathize with others, outside of the select few who compliment his ego. That is also the reason why he can't feel any empathy towards the Night Elves who lost their home and people, they don't pander his ego. He is also kind of a toxic man, who constantly falls into the misogynist trope of depicting justified female rage as women being unstable or consumed by vengeance.

Who says he can't empathize with the night elves? He just didn't want to spread the alliance forces too thin, him not sending forces to darkshore had nothing to do with 'not empathizing with the night elves.'

[Varodoc]

You can comprehend the difference between the intent of a writer and what he actually depicts, right? He is intended to be morally flawless, but due to the rather problematic views of the narrative team, he comes off as borderline psychopathic, narcissistic and a toxic male. These are accidental flaws due to the flawed world views of the creators, not intended character flaws, as we can see in the fact that this flaws that I pointed out are never acknowledged in the narrative.

Or maybe, and this is crazy, the writers' intent was to portray him with certain flaws, which are indeed acknowledged in the story itself by characters like Sylvanas and Tyrande. Anduin himself admits how he failed the people who burned at Teldrassil.

[Maxilian]

Some Horde/BE fans don't like Blood Elves to have ties to the Alliance as that keeps their waifus away from their preferred faction. Especially in Alleria's case.

Alleria is an Alliance character, have not heard anyone wish to have her in the Horde

[Rendark]

I don't really care that much about them being with humans but i do hate that it's always humans and elves. They are the safe mix. Not going to see a goblin and gnome get together anytime soon.

[Maxilian]

That's exactly why the female elves love'em, the gross, manly ruggedness, versus being with someone that is just as effeminate as the female elves themselves.

Well... if we go by the art, they are not really effeminated, though i guess female BEs may be bothered by the fact that their SO is always going to have better hair :P

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

To be fair, even after that revelation Turalyon still changed his mind in the same novel by not having all of the captured orcs executed, so I don't really see it as inconsistent that Alleria is the more angry of the two in the next novel. Once he went super saiyan and beat Doomhammer he didn't actually go through with what he initially said.

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Who says he can't empathize with the night elves? He just didn't want to spread the alliance forces too thin, him not sending forces to darkshore had nothing to do with 'not empathizing with the night elves.'

You see him empathize with Tyrande who lost thousands of her people, the same people she's been watching over for thousands of years, at the hands of the very same people Varian told her to leave alone?

Any sort of "my condolences"? Any consideration about how must she feel about all the shit night Elves have gone through? You know, for a dude considered by his writer as exemplar because it shows no toxic masculinity, thus in theory cares for what others feel, sure can't apply that to anyone who disagrees with him.

[Super Dickmann]

Or maybe, and this is crazy, the writers' intent was to portray him with certain flaws, which are indeed acknowledged in the story itself by characters like Sylvanas and Tyrande. Anduin himself admits how he failed the people who burned at Teldrassil.

I know you're mostly trolling, but there's genuinely no one alive who seriously believes that the writers intended for people to be agreeing with Sylvanas' replies to him in the throne room. She's clearly just taunting him, and we know for a fact that she's wrong, because Anduin would make a white peace with people who tried to wipe out his faction and not blink an eye. He would be buddies with her too, if she weren't a mustache-twirling baddie and it'd be guaranteed everyone would go along with him as they always do. Ditto, Tyrande - Tyrande is given a special threatening echo-y voice and is opposed by every other Alliance leader when she tries to hold the Horde itself accountable. Post-genocide, her adoptive daughter is the one to lecture her on how she needs to let go of the hate and be a good girl. The narrative takes Anduin's side without fail and is specifically written so as to ensure he is treated as right in all context and his actions have no negative consequences that anyone ever acknowledges.

@Bright-Flower

True that, he does tone down on it, and in general i don't mind their Beyond the Dark Portal relationship, but it's a step down for Turalyon, all too similar to how perfectly fine he and the Army of the Light are with Xe'ra's death.

[Maxilian]

I don't really care that much about them being with humans but i do hate that it's always humans and elves. They are the safe mix. Not going to see a goblin and gnome get together anytime soon.

Well... we did have that couple in this expansion (hopefully we see more but still, its a start)

[Shiza]

Who says he can't empathize with the night elves? He just didn't want to spread the alliance forces too thin, him not sending forces to darkshore had nothing to do with 'not empathizing with the night elves.'

He befriends one of the leading architects of the kaldorei genocide. This puts him on one of the lowest levels of moral scum.

[ravenmoon]

> Claims Anduin is morally flawless.

> Proceeds to explain how Anduin is actually flawed.

I'm also confused by @Shiza , also astonishing is the venom directed at the fictional character... are you sure it's Anduin your talking about? I guess it's true that being righteous will have some people hate you on the spot without even knowing you. And it wouldn't even matter if you're real or fictional.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Or maybe, and this is crazy, the writers' intent was to portray him with certain flaws, which are indeed acknowledged in the story itself by characters like Sylvanas and Tyrande. Anduin himself admits how he failed the people who burned at Teldrassil.

Have you ever heard of empty words?

[Selastan]

Its only really a thing for the Windrunner sisters, right? I've always had a bit of a theory for why they all chose human mates.

It's because of their status. High elves are aristocratic and very superficial, and the Windrunners were among the most powerful of all the elven families. Surely they had no shortage of suitors within Quel'thalas, wanting to marry into a noble family. Only in humans would they find people who they knew didn't see them as 'Windrunners', but individuals. As for Kael/Jaina, I would wager it was just because they spent time together. Kael was known for spending a lot of time in Dalaran as opposed to at home, it would make sense he would develop a crush on someone there.

[Oakshana]

The lore community is going through a pretty crazy period of hatred for basically any and all human characters, that's partly why.

Also the most famous cross race relationships in WoW lore are between Humans and Blood Elves and look, people get really fucking weird about Blood Elves. Like really fucking weird.

I wouldn't say it was the Lore community. When I think of the Lore community, I think of people on this forum like Aucauld, who try to use logic in their discussion. But there is a group of people who just like to shit on things in game, like the ongoing circle-jerk about "Human Potential". And every time I see that shit posted, it just reinforces my feeling that certain individuals simply enjoy behaving like idiots.

This particular vitriol is also reinforced by the community that desperately wants High Elves in game. And while I don't think it's an unreasonable wish or request, they don't ever take no for an answer.