Can Disney's Star Wars Franchise succeed?

[McNeil]

If they make more movies like Rogue One and less movies which is just nostalgia pandering, than sure they can. I like that Rogue One expanded on the time period between episode 3 and 4, where the only time they brought back an original character was Darth Vader for just 2 scenes (by which the last one is just epic, one of the best parts of the movie). There was much less of an agenda going and it felt like they just wanted to make a solid Star Wars movie.

[ravenmoon]

IT's too bad the entire premise of your rants is that Star Wars is somehow failing when they have been bringing in record profits.

The Sequels, updated BF2, Force Awakens, final season of Clone Wars, New Trilogy in the works. I have no complaints as a life long Star Wars Fan. It's too bad people like the OP can't see that it is their director bashing, actor harassment, and loud disdain for trivial things in the films that help push Lucas into even selling the Franchise.

I could have worded if better.

But I havent done any of those things. Are you one of those people that assumes anyone who has anything critical about Star Wars is a director basher, actor harasser with loud disdain for trivial things that forced Lucas to sell.

Have you even read opinion on Episode IX I wrote day before on the film's topic? And you've nor heard my voice, let alone my shout.

- - - Updated - - -

Whatever "succeed" means. Apparently making 1 billion in SWtOR is considered by them as a "success" (see the existing thread on this at https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-have-a-future) - while I would say, with such a huge fanbase to start out with and WoW basically making a billion just from subs in one year of WotLK...to me it is a "failure" if a huge franchise like SW makes that little in such a long time from an MMO.

Or do you mean a success as in "everyone loves it". Obviously people are there who love SW like it is now...or they wouldn't make a billion with Eps 9 - seems ppl still come and watch ...whatever it is that SW is now. Then again if rumors are true and this film cost over 350 million dollars (TLJ already cost 371mil), and we take twice that because of marketing and include the cut that theatres take..ouch, suddenly a billion dollars is not that much anymore.

Anyways, people seem to like the Mandalorian, as basic as it is - and maybe having ppl on board like Jon Favreaux and Kevin Feige can actually make a difference. Who knows, we may have a future where I actually go and watch SW again. Definitely would like to watch Mandalorian, but I am in EU and even when Disney+ launches here, I won't sub, because as Disney is at the moment, all I give them is the middle finger.

I meant success as in everyone loves it and mostly praiseworthy.

I watched all the star wars new movies, and contributed to that amount, but I found them mostly average, I did like TLJ despite not liking them rehashing the original trilogy for the new ones, which I reckon is why I wasnt that impressed.

I think a lot of people paid and watched despite not liking it because it is Star Wars, so I dont really view box office sales as the measure of success here.

From the measure here, you could guess Rogue One and the Mandalorian are the only successful ones, maybe Rebels?

[last1214]

I think there is this underlying assumption that because I dislike something, everyone feels similar to me. Its hardly ever true in any circumstance.

The new star wars moveis are great. Were they a culture phenomenon like the original trilogy? No. But not even George Lucas could recreate that in star wars. They did successfully make a trilogy that made a shitload of money, and I'd argue the first 2 movies were excellent, and the 3rd was ok becuase of the massive change in direction. I still throughly enjoyed watching it, and dont have any delusions of star wars being in trouble.

[TheRainman]

I hope not.

[Darkeon]

When even their 'failures' are successes, I don't think it makes much of a difference to them either way.

[Wilian]

Thanks for the links. Gives me more to consider. I know doing some quick math with estimates looking at only the movies their production costs and nothing else just to break even including the IP acquisitions costs the movies would need to bring in a combined $10.4 Billion.

I would love to take a look at that ledger book lol.

Yeah, and then you have to consider that in general money is worth less over time dependant on various factors and the recoup expectancies of the investors shift. It has been financial disaster thus far. Thankfully, to some at least, Disney is the sort of company that can take financial disasters in tune of billions and still function normally and unscathed.

[Endus]

Hmm..okay...guess I have seen others who (to me at least) could explain how it is not about breaking canon, but more about not telling a coherent story.

Some changes in mythology (Jedi healing suddenly?) do throw up a lot of problems IMHO, so I don't see it as people not reacting favorable to change per se, but rather to the problems it raises. Same as Palpatine suddenly being back de-valuates the sacrifices made in Eps 6.

But that is me, loving Eps 4-6 and treasuring it. That is my Star Wars. If your Star Wars is 1-9 or 1-3 or 7-9...fair enough and have fun with it.

I don't see how Force healing changes anything in the canon, retroactively.

Not every Jedi knows every possible use of the Force, or is able to wield it. That's been set in extended Legends content over and over and over, and even in the modern canon, you've got things like the ascension to the Force that Qui-gonn rediscovered, and which passed down to Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke, Anakin, etc. It wasn't known by any other Jedi; it was a lost art, even though it's clearly something you can accomplish. The same could easily be true of Force healing.

There's a lot of stuff like that which can just be a big cultural blind spot. The Jedi inculcate specific points of view, and those dogmatic points may lean against learning to heal, somehow. We don't have an explanation in canon, but we don't need one; without a canonical answer, any possible answer is feasible, and there are many possible reasons why we never before saw the Force used to heal. The lack of an explanation means we default to "any explanation could be true", not "there's no explanation so it's wrong".

Would it have changed some specific moments, if it were widely known 30 years ago? Sure. Apparently, it wasn't. And Rey seems to be the one who figured it out. Maybe by instinct, maybe in those lost texts Luke had gathered and she's been studying. Maybe because it carries echoes of the Dark Side and she was enough on the edge to pull it off. Who knows? A question for a future film.

[Logwyn]

Hmm..okay...guess I have seen others who (to me at least) could explain how it is not about breaking canon, but more about not telling a coherent story.

Some changes in mythology (Jedi healing suddenly?) do throw up a lot of problems IMHO, so I don't see it as people not reacting favorable to change per se, but rather to the problems it raises. Same as Palpatine suddenly being back de-valuates the sacrifices made in Eps 6.

But that is me, loving Eps 4-6 and treasuring it. That is my Star Wars. If your Star Wars is 1-9 or 1-3 or 7-9...fair enough and have fun with it.

I don't understand the Jedi and healing being a retcon or something "new" that Disney added to Jedi. In The New Hope Obi-Wan heals Luke after the Sandpeople attack him. Healing with the force has been in Stars Wars since the first movie every seen on silver screen.....

- - - Updated - - -

I don't see how Force healing changes anything in the canon, retroactively.

Obi-Wan heals Luke after he is attacked by Sandpeople in IV A New Hope. I don't see how we have people yelling force healing is a retcon.

[qwerty123456]

As long as they are making money I don't think they give a shit if Star Wars is garbage or not.

[ojblade]

stick a fork in it, unless they come up with more baby yoda, its done.
force/jedi healing by touch. COME ON!

but question, they basically made most of their 4 Billion back from the sale to Lucas already, but can they make a good profit in the future with the mess that they created?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I mean, as long as it makes them money, it's a success, and checking the Box Office... it has.

[ravenmoon]

At this point in time, I guess indeed "everyone loves it and mostly praiseworthy" applies only to episode 4-6. Maybe that will change over time. And yes, Rogue One and the Mandalorian as well as the cartoons are generally liked.

But while you "don't really view box office sales as the measure of success here" - that is what companies will go by..and really have to. Not judging...it is what they are in for. Disney didn't buy Lucasfilm for 4 billion dollars to lose money.

Oh I know that's what t hey go by.


I also think they expected the movies to do a lot better than they have done too. The worry for them would be the realisation that if negative reviews keep increasing, then people aren't going to go see Star Wars good or bad because it is star wars, the golden goose that that name carries in entertainment would have been shattered by the consistently poorer reactions.

I almost didn't see episode IX, I don't know if it's because my personal life has changed along with my priorities, but I didn't even care to see it on release which I've done for every Star Wars movie I've been around to see at the cinema? Why? Because the new sequence of movies just doesn't do it for me, and I tried. 4 average movies (albeit somewhat enjoyable but nothing special), has made me quite indifferent. I eventually saw it because I kept seeing the movie thread bumped and I couldn't really join in the conversation much because I hadn't seen it - MMO champion forums made me see Episode 9.

Now I can guarantee I'm not the only one, so that would be a worrying trend. Fortunately for them, it was me not liking the 7-9 series approach, if they did a movie with a bit more style I'd probably go see it, I just don't want to go see another Star WArs movies where we are jumping from Desert to Swamp, to dingy shithole, to rock and emptiness of space.. I want to see impossible cities, hi-tech, stunning lightsabre fights, cool characters that do cool things with the force or jet packs - and ofc a good story. Don't give me force is female b/s, killing off and reversing every victory and purpose of the first 6, was also not a good move to make imo. But I did find 2 of the 3 entertaining to watch, finally warming up to the characters in the last movie, but still finding them utterly uninspiring for most of the trilogy.

Give me Obi-wan, just before the prequels, or Darth Vader early days in prequel tech stages, give me old republic, or give me something entirely new. I've had it with the 4-9 settings.

[therealbowser]

Depends on what you consider a failure. The movies have already been a success, but they weren't what people wanted from them. To be honest, I don't know what people wanted and I imagine it's a pretty broad definition that varies from person to person. I think a lot of people hate the movies because of either Disney, or because it invalidates a lot of the post-episode 6 stories.

Love it or hate it, but it's not unsuccessful. Not even remotely.

[ravenmoon]

I don't see how Force healing changes anything in the canon, retroactively.

Don't mind him, you kinda need to show new abilities in the big movies, impressive ones too, and force healing was good.. maybe i'm easier with it after playing the SWTOR game

[ravenmoon]

Episode IX is one of the best films I've ever seen. I adored Solo, and I liked Force Awakens and Last Jedi. Rogue One was a bit of an unnecessary appendix to the original film, but it wasn't bad.

I was pleasantly surprised by i, warmed up to some of the characters too, still didn't think that much of it though, but I think better of the trilogy because of it. Completely hate the way they ended it ttoo, but there were many cool things also, mixed review.. overall likeable.. and it's clear htese people have really don't know how to write good endings any more.

[tromage2]

Obi-Wan heals Luke after he is attacked by Sandpeople in IV A New Hope. I don't see how we have people yelling force healing is a retcon.

I dont know what movie you saw but he checks Luke out and then when he is not doing anything with Luke and is talking to R2 Luke wakes up.
So what force healing are you talking about? To force heal you need to focus and he only had any bit of focus on Luke when he got to him for a few seconds and at that time he was still knocked out.

[Clone]

Says the person with the Star Wars themed profile.

This has actually always been my position, but I am surprised to see it from you, given your avatar, lol.

People can like mediocre stuff. I enjoy the franchise but I don't think it's the greatest ever.

[Endus]

See above...but I suppose to all of that is an explanation. If Rey figured it out...fine...then why not use it all the time?

Then again..I guess you could argue why they don't use their mind control ability all the time ^^

I mean, she had exactly two opportunities to, and used it both times.

Why did other Jedi in the prequels not use it? Maybe they didn't know how. That's the point, here. Just because Rey figured out how to do this does not mean all Jedi did in the past, at all. It could be something new, it could be a lost technique, it could carry tones of the Dark Side that caused the Jedi to reject it. We simply don't know, and that lack means writers are free to explain it however they want; a lack of support in the canon means the writers have carte blanche, not that they have to avoid the holes left unexplored.

[munkeyinorbit]

3 Series (with more on the way), 5 films, including the end of the trilogy and the reaction over all to new Star Wars is mediocre at best.

Do you think they can pull it back and restore it? What would it take? A new time jump, or timeline or new vein of Star wars? Should they keep it stuck in the 9 series main films - meaning for going any further in this galaxy.

What would you do? What would cause you to be fanatical about Star Wars again or good enough to turn the corner?

To truly succeed, Disney must make a group of middle aged men realise that Star Wars is not for them and never was for them. Star Wars always was and always will be meant for kids. Kids love Star Wars. They dont care if there were no black character in Star Wars and they don't care if the lead character is female. They don't care if the story makes sense anymore. They like light sabers and spaceships and robots. Kids buy toys, not adults.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Disney are masters of creating mainstream, commercial content that is meant to be liked. They're not here to create divisive avant garde movies. They're going to do fine with this, the only problem they'll need to solve is pleasing the Star Wars fanbase that doesn't seem to be happy with... Well anything

I would argue that the last 2 movies were certainly not what disney usually produces. At least I can't remember the last major disney film that was as poorly written as the last 2 entries of the SW franchise.