Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Granyala]

Meanwhile we're sending 700k units of Phizer vaccine that expires this month to South Korea, because govt has to beg people here to vaccinate and they still don't take it free for all multiple locations in all cities.

Honestly, I don't think there is anything that can be done to convince the die-hards except personal tragedy.
Sometimes, even that will not be enough.

[Tuor]

Honestly, I don't think there is anything that can be done to convince the die-hards except personal tragedy.
Sometimes, even that will not be enough.

We can prevent them to spread their ideas to other people, by presenting plausable sources.

Even it comes with an extremely high emotional cust.

[Granyala]

We can prevent them to spread their ideas to other people, by presenting plausable sources.
Even it comes with an extremely high emotional cust.

Of course, I was speaking about convincing them.

[Egomaniac]

Just because I haven't seen it posted:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-5776...9sP68d1Gwx31k8

Covid: Woman aged 90 died with double variant infection

It is possible to catch two Covid variants at the same time, experts are warning after seeing a double infection in a 90-year-old woman who became sick with the Alpha and Beta types first identified in the UK and South Africa.

The woman, who died in March 2021 in Belgium, had not been vaccinated.

Her doctors suspect she contracted the infections from two different people.

They believe it is the first documented case of its kind and, although rare, similar dual infections are happening.

Act Now and we'll give you two covids for the price of one!

[Orange Joe]

Bingo. That's the core issue. If the governments over the last 20 or more years hadn't shown themselves very much worthy of said mistrust, then maybe they would be listened to more. But, they did show themselves worthy of that mistrust, and, it is what it is.

In other news, at least here, the Delta variant, or whatever the current spike in cases here was, it's on the downhill side now, cases going downward again.

First lets just stick with modern western nations.


What have these nations done to their own citizens to not deserve any trust? And what does that have to do with what scientists across the world are saying?

[caractacus]

Mistrust of the government is a big problem but it's not just that it is also News and social media. I was reading something the other day that the US has one of the lowest trust ratings for their News corps. In this "post-truth era we have thrown a lot of logical scientific thinking out of the window and everything has become about appealing to emotions and opinions rather than facts.

It is a bit of a random story but I was thinking of having some Prawns and trying them with Lime juice so I googled it to see if they went together and the first thing that came up was somebody asking why Prawns with Lime juice was poisonous? This was then followed by people explaining;

"Prawns and Shrimps have a compound called Arsenic Pentoxide. When this combination combines with Vitamin C which is present in lemon juice then a new compound called Arsenic Trioxide is formed which can lead to certain stomach ailments."

There is also a scientific paper linked that shows this.

So I dig a little deeper and it's complete rubbish, a myth perpetuated by Facebook based on a real scientific study which was shown to be false. You can search it yourself and see. The same thing happened with the study that linked autism with vaccines, complete rubbish and shown to be untrue but it still cited and shared and people believe it. I believe we now have this problem with covid but on a much bigger scale and not just the vaccines but all the information about the virus.

[Granyala]

What have these nations done to their own citizens to not deserve any trust? And what does that have to do with what scientists across the world are saying?

There were multiple cases of corruption when it came to mask endorsements in Germany alone. What do you think that does for people's trust? Are we wearing masks in summer, when close to nothing is happening because it is scientifically relevant or because some people want to make money? These are the questions, cases of corruption raise in people's minds. Naturally that spills over into vaccines. Sure, there are nutcases (5G, Nanobots, Lizard People) but I would reckon, that most hesitant people are simply not convinced yet that vaccination is necessary for them. Especially younger folks with inherently lower risks to begin with.

Sure, scientists say what scientists say (though they have to get budgets from somewhere too, never forget that) but policy doesn't always have to adhere to science exclusively.

Also you will find plenty of scientists who disagree.
Policy making, sadly, isn't black or white. The politicians often have to make hard judgment calls on inconclusive/incomplete data. I do NOT envy them. I'm sure it often feels like "damned if you do, damned if you don't" to them.

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Mistrust of the government is a big problem but it's not just that it is also News and social media.

Absolutely!
If the current pandemic has shown one thing, it's that the absurd amount of false information, that is often peddled with an agenda, out there is a HUGE problem.
I'm an engineer, so I do have a scientific background and, dare I say it: some useful education.

If I find it hard to separate fact from nonsense and identify trustworthy data, how in the seven hells are simple minded / uneducated people supposed to do it? Especially when you combine that with the distrust of corrupt governments, which makes the official sources seem suspect too.

[Rennadrel]

Honestly, I don't think there is anything that can be done to convince the die-hards except personal tragedy.
Sometimes, even that will not be enough.

It's not enough. I read a story the other week about a woman from Florida who lost her 52 year old mother to it and she still refused to vaccinate herself and children. Honestly we just need to let natural selection do it's work. Ban unvaccinated people from public events and travel, let them suffer for their actions. Maybe once it wipes out the unvaccinated portion of the population, life can move on.

[Rasulis]

June analysis of May specific data of Covid-19 hospitalization and death.

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 1.1%.An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 1.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

Fake news!!

[Poopymonster]

June analysis of May specific data of Covid-19 hospitalization and death.

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated



Fake news!!

That's not a bug, it's a feature.

[Granyala]

Honestly we just need to let natural selection do it's work. Ban unvaccinated people from public events and travel, let them suffer for their actions. Maybe once it wipes out the unvaccinated portion of the population, life can move on.

Tell that to the goodie two-shoes who think "everyone needs to be protected and saved".
They rather continue social distancing and mask loving than letting people face the consequences of their actions.

[Edge-]

They rather continue social distancing and mask loving than letting people face the consequences of their actions.

Because their actions have negative impacts on others. If this only affected the individual this wouldn't be an issue but like...it doesn't.

[Rennadrel]

Tell that to the goodie two-shoes who think "everyone needs to be protected and saved".
They rather continue social distancing and mask loving than letting people face the consequences of their actions.

I can't speak for anyone else but I know in my workplace, people are really getting tired of wearing masks all day in a hot factory in 35 C weather. The vaccines at the least will reduce the severity of illness and those who get it that aren't vaccinated will get really sick. But I'm getting weary of the mask mandates and at some point we just need to cut the cord and accept that the people who refuse to get vaccinated shouldn't be protected from their own ignorance and stupidity and the rest of us should move on. Thankfully my workplace has something like 95% vaccination rate. Of the 250 or so people that work there, I know of only 3 who've refused to get it.

[Zan15]

June analysis of May specific data of Covid-19 hospitalization and death.

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated



Fake news!!

Yup and they are back to saying all govt data is faked by the administration just like they were about things like 42% unemployment.

Guess those 4 years of real #'s quickly went away day 1 huh?

They are also again pushing for "pictures and video" of these "so called filled hospitals"

sad, really sad

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I can't speak for anyone else but I know in my workplace, people are really getting tired of wearing masks all day in a hot factory in 35 C weather. The vaccines at the least will reduce the severity of illness and those who get it that aren't vaccinated will get really sick. But I'm getting weary of the mask mandates and at some point we just need to cut the cord and accept that the people who refuse to get vaccinated shouldn't be protected from their own ignorance and stupidity and the rest of us should move on.

Problem is those stupid people can even infect the not so stupid. And thanks to the stupid instead of having to worry about a very low percentage of people walking around with a new very infectious variant we have upwards of 40% in some states.


Half the people in our warehouse (No AC) have gone back to wearing mask, on top of the 20% who never stopped because they refuse to get a vaccination.

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Tell that to the goodie two-shoes who think "everyone needs to be protected and saved".
They rather continue social distancing and mask loving than letting people face the consequences of their actions.

when they flood the hospitals and cripple the medical system, yah I'd rather not be back in that situation again.

Not to mention the billions in taxpayer money that will have to go to saving these people, when it would have cost millions for their vaccinations.



Oh just let them drive drunk. Let them face the consequences of their actions as they slam into a family of 5.....

[Granyala]

Because their actions have negative impacts on others. If this only affected the individual this wouldn't be an issue but like...it doesn't.

And social distancing and mask wearing doesn't?

The diehards are around 10% of our population. Sooner or later they will get natural immunity via infection.
Everyone else (especially risk groups) has the vaccine.

At that point: their choice only affects themselves (if even that). Let them have it.

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I can't speak for anyone else but I know in my workplace, people are really getting tired of wearing masks all day in a hot factory in 35 C weather. The vaccines at the least will reduce the severity of illness and those who get it that aren't vaccinated will get really sick. But I'm getting weary of the mask mandates and at some point we just need to cut the cord and accept that the people who refuse to get vaccinated shouldn't be protected from their own ignorance and stupidity and the rest of us should move on. Thankfully my workplace has something like 95% vaccination rate. Of the 250 or so people that work there, I know of only 3 who've refused to get it.

Careful, with rational thinking like this, you are burned at the stake in this thread lol.

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when they flood the hospitals and cripple the medical system, yah I'd rather not be back in that situation again.

Eeeh yeah.... not going to happen. Sorry but SARS-CoV-2 is not dangerous enough for that.
The small percentage of unwilling people won't be enough to flood the hospitals, if the rest is immunized.

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Oh just let them drive drunk. Let them face the consequences of their actions as they slam into a family of 5.....

By comparison, that family of 5 (vaccinated) would drive a tank while the drunk driver (not vaccinated) has a Smart.
Do you think the family will care? (apart from the paint job, that is)

No, the family will care much more of they can't drive their tank to the shopping mall (social distancing) because there might be a smart in danger of uuh ... being flattened by their tank?

[Edge-]

And social distancing and mask wearing doesn't?

Sure. One is a minor inconvenience, the other is potentially life-threatening or could have consequences that you deal with for the rest of your life.

The diehards are around 10% of our population. Sooner or later they will get natural immunity via infection.

That's a horrible thing to "hope" to rely on, especially considering that they can be the source of mutations that vaccines aren't as effective against which...could take us back to square one all over again which would be great and awesome and I'm sure these people would totally actually start giving a shit this time instead of digging their heels in and doubling down on keeping a never-ending pandemic going.

At that point: their choice only affects themselves (if even that). Let them have it.

Again, it doesn't. They pack hospitals in a local area? That can cause issues for people who need hospitalization for less avoidable reasons. New mutations appear that vaccines aren't as effective against? Hello draconian lockdowns, I've missed you.

This is absolutely not using your imagination in the slightest in terms of thinking about the consequences. People keep forgetting that enjoying all the benefits that come with living in a global society like we do doesn't come with the occasional cost.

[Pann]

Eeeh yeah.... not going to happen. Sorry but SARS-CoV-2 is not dangerous enough for that.
The small percentage of unwilling people won't be enough to flood the hospitals, if the rest is immunized.

As I understand it the problem with covid when it hits hospitals is that it is potentially very dangerous to some those who are in hospital meaning that whole wards can only be used for treating covid. This obviously has a knock on effect with the hospital's capacity and ability to treat other conditions.

[Granyala]

That's a horrible thing to "hope" to rely on, especially considering that they can be the source of mutations that vaccines aren't as effective against which...could take us back to square one all over again which would be great and awesome and I'm sure these people would totally actually start giving a shit this time instead of digging their heels in and doubling down on keeping a never-ending pandemic going.

Just get a grip on reality here.

1) You CANNOT force everyone to vaccinate.
2) You CANNOT keep these measures up indefinitely. Eventually people will revolt (especially in regards to social distancing).
3) The virus is not going away.

Just accept the fact that we will have to live with the risk eventually. Take the vaccine, be done with it.

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As I understand it the problem with covid when it hits hospitals is that it is potentially very dangerous to some those who are in hospital meaning that whole wards can only be used for treating covid. This obviously has a knock on effect with the hospital's capacity and ability to treat other conditions.

Keep in mind: we are talking about a population that is vaccinated to ~85-90%, where only the last few diehards remain.
Covid does not pose much of a threat for vaccinated people.

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Pretty much. They essentially need to quarantine the covid cases to protect everyone else. Then you add in the treatmentrequired for hospitalization and the system gets strained quite quickly.

Only a small fraction are susceptible (only the diehards that do not have a natural immunity via infection).
Of that small fraction, only a small fraction will need hospitalization.
That combined with a largely immune population, which reduces the spread in the first place, way more than masks and distancing ever could, protects even the non vaccinated diehards.

No matter how you slice it, as it is right now, SARS-CoV-2 will not be dangerous enough to warrant state mandates and measures.

[Pann]

Keep in mind: we are talking about a population that is vaccinated to ~85-90%, where only the last few diehards remain.
Covid does not pose much of a threat for vaccinated people.

People who are in hospital are not usually in the best of health. Covid patients will still have to isolated from other patients simply to reduce the risks of transmission within the hospital.

[Granyala]

People who are in hospital are not usually in the best of health. Covid patients will still have to isolated from other patients simply to reduce the risks of transmission within the hospital.

Possibly. Maybe. Maybe not. We would need more data on how SARS-CoV-2 behaves in vaccinated people to make such an assessment.
That being said: I'm sure hospitals do that with Influenza etc too. So if only a tiny part of the population is susceptible, they should be able to handle it.

Keep in mind: the whole crisis only ever was a thing because ALL our bodies were unfamiliar with the virus. There is a huge difference between having 100% of the population at C19's hospitalization rate vs. 5% or less.