Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Zan15]

If they play both sides you can’t sue them.

speaking of lawsuits.

they are all now saying they won't get the shot till they can sue someone!! you know for umm...a fever after the shot??

it just never stops.

Unless they somehow make this vaxx increase penis size most of these morons won't take it.

[Omega10]

Wow, the last comparison article was from 2 - 3 weeks ago. The situation in Tampa Bay got a lot worse fast. At that time the Covid hospitalization in Tampa Bay was only 6 times that of SF.

I figured that there was a good chance of explosive virus growth. I just expected it a bit later. I was thinking about a month after schools opened everywhere. Instead, it exploded much more quickly.

The number of hospitalizations is a lot harder to under count than the number of cases or the number of deaths. It's a much better measure of how things are going. Multiple news articles have already alluded to Missouri and Florida starting to decline, but I don't think that is accurate in either case. Well the REPORTED numbers might be in decline, but the number of hospitalizations might be the same, and only failing to increase because patients are forced to wait before getting a hospital bed (sometimes for someone else to die). Another factor at play is someone from Arkansas, for example, getting a bed in Missouri due to no beds being available in Arkansas, but I'm not sure how prevalent that is.

[Ursus]

But it's all a global conspiracy of literally every medical professional expect that lady that said that sex with demons and demon sperm causes infertility. She's a good egg.

You best not be mocking astral sex. That's the only kind I'm getting right now.

[Granyala]

You and I are in complete agreement on this. If you run for President, can I be your Vice President? Maybe you can convince the other 30% (40% ?) better than anyone else has up until now.

I would simply change the laws and make the vaccine mandatory with exceptions made only for people that have medical reasons to not get one.

Seriously, I do not understand why everyone beats around the bush of the Elephant in the room. (Wait that didn't sound right :S )
Corona is a problem. The Vaccine is not. 30% antivaxxers are a problem. Forcing them is not.
Instead of "muh freedumm" and limping on with annoying measures and mask and test nonsense for the next 3 years, I would simply tear the band-aid off and be done with it.

[szechuan]

Dumb whataboutism from Ben My Wife is a Doctor Shapiro



https://twitter.com/benshapiro/statu...57342796009476

[Tuor]

It is unfortunate that we never get the chance to test the 70% - 80% herd immunity theory.

Why don't you ask a swedish? They know everithing about herd immunity.
/Cynical mode off

Now speaking seriously. The virus mutated, with alpha strain it increased its reprodutive number (Rt), and it did the same with Delta strain. Well, if the Rt is higher now then it was back in 2019 means the herd imunity target increased aswell, it was calculated at 70% for the original sars-cov-2 and with Delta it should be around 90% or higher. The Emirates has a vaccination of over 80% and they still having an average of 1 000 daily cases, which means they still well bellow the so called her imunity.

If we take in consideration the fact that vaccines don't stop infections in a huge amount of cases, joining the fact that the efficiency of vaccines has been reduced with Delta strain, means we will never hit herd imunity. The vaccine efficiency for mRNA are currently below 90%, and its even worst with vector vaccines, this means that her immunity its impossible to hit, with current avaible vaccines.

[zEmini]

Someone in my family still refuses to get vaccinated even though somebody close has to undergo chemo and is pregnant. What should one do?

[Gaidax]

I would simply change the laws and make the vaccine mandatory with exceptions made only for people that have medical reasons to not get one.

Seriously, I do not understand why everyone beats around the bush of the Elephant in the room. (Wait that didn't sound right :S )
Corona is a problem. The Vaccine is not. 30% antivaxxers are a problem. Forcing them is not.
Instead of "muh freedumm" and limping on with annoying measures and mask and test nonsense for the next 3 years, I would simply tear the band-aid off and be done with it.

I mean, I'm all pro-vaccination, but lets not go crazy there.

Financial and other incentives within reason to encourage vaccination, yes. Mandatory? No.

There is no need to go full China about it. Given enough carrots, you won't need any sticks.

Now, some of the carrots may be viably challenged in court and this may be the reason why you're not seeing direct monetary benefits to vaccinated from govt, but many other kinds of carrots can just work out.

Overall 70% population vaccinated is not some pie in the sky target - it's possible to do as is with some added incentives without making things mandatory and that's what you mostly need given you can't vaccinate children below 12 anyway.

---

For example locally PM considered a scheme where every vaccinated citizen would get a special one time assistance directly to their accounts, but the Attorney General advised against it because it would not survive Supreme Court challenge, because it is going against the basic laws (constitution equivalent).

Heck PM can't even threaten blanket sanctions for not being vaccinated either due to same reason - it would be against the law.

[Granyala]

Now speaking seriously. The virus mutated, with alpha strain it increased its reprodutive number (Rt), and it did the same with Delta strain. Well, if the Rt is higher now then it was back in 2019 means the herd imunity target increased aswell, it was calculated at 70% for the original sars-cov-2 and with Delta it should be around 90% or higher. The Emirates has a vaccination of over 80% and they still having an average of 1 000 daily cases, which means they still well bellow the so called her imunity.

Politicians in my country tout the "85-90%" number of vaccinated people to be needed in order to be "safe".
That is just so incredibly unrealistic that I wonder whether we will ever be able to end this perpetual state of crisis if we cling to that kind of fairy tale-target.

- - - Updated - - -

Mandatory? No.

Why? I just don't get the counter argument.
You say carrots, incentives etc, yadda, yadda.

Ultimately this is just about some "illusion of choice". There is no real choice here. Choose not to vaccinate and say that in this thread here: you will be ridiculed. Choose not to vaccinate and they will start making your life miserable (tests at every corner, exclusion when things get dicey again etc).

Maybe I am too far removed from society to understand this, I don't know.
BTW: we have mandatory Measles vaccination here. So there would be a precedent, even if controversial.

[Gaidax]

Why? I just don't get the counter argument.

Because in the end you demand a person to tamper with their body against their will.

You can't cancel basic rights and freedoms when it's convenient to you, even if it's for greater good. These rights exist for a reason for better and for worse.

I know there is "muh freedumbz" meme, but stomping these freedumbz when convenient is a slippery slope you don't want to do in a Western world.

[Granyala]

Because in the end you demand a person to tamper with their body against their will.

Then why did Germany do it with the Measles vaccination?
Good luck getting a Kiddo in a School that is not vaccinated.
School is mandatory in Germany, no Homeschooling nonsense possible like in the US unless under extreme circumstances, so this is, for all intents and purposes, a mandatory vaccination in real life.

Apparently these so called "human rights" weren't a problem for that law.

[Edge-]

Dumb whataboutism from Ben My Wife is a Doctor Shapiro


https://twitter.com/benshapiro/statu...57342796009476

If obesity was highly contagious and causing hospitals to get filled with patients while staff are subjected to abuse and insane hours, sure. Man these fucks get dumber and dumber.

[Gaidax]

Then why did Germany do it with the Measles vaccination?
Good luck getting a Kiddo in a School (School is mandatory in Germany, no Homeschooling nonsense possible like in the US unless under extreme circumstanes).

Apparently these so called "human rights" weren't a problem for that law.

Until it gets overturned by supreme court there.

It's really that simple.

In my personal opinion as a guy who is triple vaccinated and literally "hacked the system" to get 3rd shot a week before official launch for my age group - the best way forward with this is convincing rather than forcing.

Forcing is how you get pushback and you don't want that.

[Forogil]

If obesity was highly contagious and causing hospitals to get filled with patients while staff are subjected to abuse and insane hours, sure. Man these fucks get dumber and dumber.

There are studies indicating that obesity is actually contagious - https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/2007...ity-contagious (not in the sense of infection, but in terms of social interactions - and clearly spreading more slowly). And obesity are causing a number of medical issues, and/or making them worse - including covid-19 it seems.

[Gaidax]

Some new decisions.

• Vaccination "Green Pass" will now expire half a year after last jab, instead of original end of the year.
• Vaccination officially available for 30yo starting tomorrow.
• Everyone next week.

Currently still unknown if and when 4th booster will be needed.

[Forogil]

Now speaking seriously. The virus mutated, with alpha strain it increased its reprodutive number (Rt), and it did the same with Delta strain. Well, if the Rt is higher now then it was back in 2019 means the herd imunity target increased aswell, it was calculated at 70% for the original sars-cov-2 and with Delta it should be around 90% or higher. The Emirates has a vaccination of over 80% and they still having an average of 1 000 daily cases, which means they still well bellow the so called her imunity.

The threshold depend on how efficient the vaccine is, and that depends on the vaccine and we don't fully know the relevant number (we know how much they reduce the risk for serious disease, death etc with some uncertainty - but if they reduce the spread by the same amount isn't clear).

UAE seems to have used Sinopharm's inactivated vaccines BBIBP-CorV and WIBP-CorV, Pfizer/BioNTech, Sputnik V, and Astra-Zeneca vaccines; the 90% target was likely for Pfizer/BioNTech; Astra-Zeneca and Sputnik V seem a bit less efficient and Sinopharm ones may also be less efficient (especially WIBP-CorV). I don't know in what proportion. As another example Chile had also vaccinated a large portion early on and primarily used another of the Chinese vaccines (Sinovac's inactivated CoronaVac) that weren't that efficient.

But, yes, as I have written before depending on the exact numbers it may be that we need 90-100% or more vaccinated to reach herd immunity against Delta with the good vaccines. The obvious conclusion is that you need to get the vaccine yourself to protect yourself.

If we take in consideration the fact that vaccines don't stop infections in a huge amount of cases, joining the fact that the efficiency of vaccines has been reduced with Delta strain, means we will never hit herd imunity. The vaccine efficiency for mRNA are currently below 90%, and its even worst with vector vaccines, this means that her immunity its impossible to hit, with current avaible vaccines.

Herd immunity is in one sense something you either have or not; but even below that threshold the spread is reduced significantly, so that the health-care system will not get overrun quickly, and you can get by with lesser restrictions.

- - - Updated - - -

The number of hospitalizations is a lot harder to under count than the number of cases or the number of deaths. It's a much better measure of how things are going. Multiple news articles have already alluded to Missouri and Florida starting to decline, but I don't think that is accurate in either case.

Hospitalizations and confirmed cases both depend on available resources, so they will likely be undercounted in surges.

However, I wouldn't rule out that the declining case numbers in Florida and Missouri are real (it might also be creative counting). Remember India - lots of really bad stories, and then they stopped - as cases started declining. It's likely a combination of a large percentage having been infected (higher than case numbers), and that some start taking precautions when reports are that bad.

[formerShandalay]

Then why did Germany do it with the Measles vaccination?
Good luck getting a Kiddo in a School that is not vaccinated.
School is mandatory in Germany, no Homeschooling nonsense possible like in the US unless under extreme circumstances, so this is, for all intents and purposes, a mandatory vaccination in real life.

Apparently these so called "human rights" weren't a problem for that law.

Because personal freedom stops at some points, at least in Germany. And it stops at killing babies who can't yet be vaccinated. So everyone who even has the slightest chance to infect someone who has maybe a baby or a baby-sibling at home has to be vaccinated.
Most of the risk-groups for Covid can be vaccinated, however and the rest can be done with masks and distancing, so I don't think they'll be as adamant with the Covid vaccine as they are with the measles.

[Omega10]

Until it gets overturned by supreme court there.

It's really that simple.

In my personal opinion as a guy who is triple vaccinated and literally "hacked the system" to get 3rd shot a week before official launch for my age group - the best way forward with this is convincing rather than forcing.

Forcing is how you get pushback and you don't want that.

Push back is happening anyways. At least in the US it is.

I am in favor of mandatory vaccines at this point. Failing that, as more and more businesses require proof of vaccines to bre able to work, well that makes it kind of mandatory anyways. The right of people to not vaccinate, unfortunately, puts myself and too many of my friends and loved ones at risk.

On a practical note, over time un-vaccinated people will find themselves more and more isolated. This is not happening fast enough, and this is also adding to how much un-vaccinated people just flat out dig in to their opposition to getting the vaccine. At some point most of them will decide that resisting this and putting themselves and their families at risk is just not worth it - WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOR ANYWAYS.

- - - Updated - - -


https://www.yahoo.com/news/another-k...191004967.html

Title: Another Kentucky school district shuts down, with no remote learning, due to COVID-19

This is (hopefully) the kind of event that will change minds on getting vaccinated.

Officials in another Kentucky school district have announced that they are shutting down for the rest of the week due to COVID with no remote learning.

‘Due to an increase in Covid cases in our schools and additional class quarantines, school will be canceled through August 27, 2021. These will not be NTI days but will be made up later in the year,” Leslie County Schools officials said in a Sunday Facebook post.

The rest of the article just fills in various details. Anti-vaccine types of people can and mostly likely will protest, but this is one of those times where mostly they just make themselves look foolish.

[Rasulis]

Some new decisions.

• Vaccination "Green Pass" will now expire half a year after last jab, instead of original end of the year.
• Vaccination officially available for 30yo starting tomorrow.
• Everyone next week.

Currently still unknown if and when 4th booster will be needed.

So no ravenous horde of zombies swarming over the Jerusalem wall?

[Jtbrig7390]

You can't cancel basic rights and freedoms when it's convenient to you

Your freedom's end where my freedom to live begins. If you are choosing to not get the shot because you are a anti-vax dickhead then stay inside. You are not entitled to ANYTHING outside. Not the store, not work, not even to walk to the park.

Unless you can't get the shot because you are deathly allergic to something in it then get the fucken shot or take a long walk off a short pier.