Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[fwc577]

Just popped in here to say it's only been a couple of weeks but I'm beginning to understand the concept of child brides and arranged marriages. I think I need to find my daughter a husband ASAP to get her out of the house. She's only 14 but me and the wife are to the point where we've considered smothering her in her sleep. My wife got offended when I asked her if she was like this when she was a teen and she claims not to have been. But I texted my BIL and he said she's lying.

[Krastyn]

This is an incredibly disingenuous tactic. Thinking that America shouldn't be above scrutiny, and finding their threats to the international community abhorrent, isn't a hate-boner. This off-handed dismissal by claiming that people just want to hate on America is the very definition of poisoning the well.

There's scrutiny and then there's outright lying, which is what it currently appears to be.

You haven't provided any reasons or in your statement about why their actions are abhorrent or a threat to the international community, or how it is any different from similar actions of dozens of other countries.

Which is exactly what I said in regards to the situation with Germany. It's a developing situation and I hope, for everyone's sake, that it's not a case of America stealing goods bound for another nation. When it comes to America considering stopping the sale of 3M's respirators and masks to other countries, however, is something that we don't need to wait to criticize them for, and they should, and have been, criticized for it.

Yet this only makes the news because it is America. Other countries have moved to restrict goods from export already, and it isn't front page news for multiple days across multiple countries.

- The masks ordered by Germany were not from 3M, but a German wholeseller; however, the shipment was still diverted to the US, and this is currently under investigation.

No evidence yet has been provided that they were stolen.

- Anonymous sources are saying that the US is trying to over purchase medical supplies, like the masks and ventilators; they want more than what they require.

Which is what almost every single other country in the world is trying to do. No country knows exactly how many of any supply they need. You can't. So you always plan to buy more, just in case.

- America's method of purchasing these masks in-bulk and above market rates is leading to market disruptions, which will cause shortages and price increases.

Prices increase anytime there is a shortage. This isn't the sole fault of the US. There already is a shortage, so again, saying the US actions is causing this is disingenuous at best.

Can you tell me exactly how many masks the US needs, and at what point it would be considered over purchasing?

- America is purchasing these supplies on the tarmac, just before they are to be shipped to other countries, not during the actual bidding process.

You mean one statement by one person, that may not have actually happened, and may be speaking in hyperbole? As every other example listed states that people were just outbid. Even if they were on the tarmac, that is something that should be brought up with company they purchased the goods from. Seems like Germany needs to have a talk with their German company.

I'm going to be frank, this looks even worse for the US. Not only is America not exonerated from the situation with Germany, the cause of the shipments diversion is to-be-determined, but they've also been using unfair tactics in order to procure medical supplies that had already been promised to other nations. In many cases, these nations are allies of the US. America is, quite literally, killing the citizens of allied countries in a bid to oversupply themselves.

So what you're telling me, is that in a situation of shortage of supply, money wins out. Are you honestly really surprised at this? That's what the "unfair tactics" are. They're spending more money.

This result was blatantly obvious weeks ago. Countries with resources are going to get the most of the supplies they need. Those without won't.

And once again, to the point in bold. every country in the world is trying to ensure they have more supplies than they need.

[PhaelixWW]

Anonymous sources are saying that the US is trying to over purchase medical supplies, like the masks and ventilators; they want more than what they require.

This sounds suspiciously like one of those hate-boners you're trying to deny.

I can't imagine how anyone, anywhere can suggest that the US has (or is even in the process of obtaining) "more than what they require". A cursory look at the numbers from the US, as well as the bickering going on between the White House and state governors would belie that sentiment.

Even if you want to make the claim that those other countries need those supplies, too, it doesn't even begin to satisfy the claim that the US doesn't need them.

[Magical Mudcrab]

This sounds suspiciously like one of those hate-boners you're trying to deny.

I can't imagine how anyone, anywhere can suggest that the US has (or is even in the process of obtaining) "more than what they require". A cursory look at the numbers from the US, as well as the bickering going on between the White House and state governors would belie that sentiment.

Even if you want to make the claim that those other countries need those supplies, too, it doesn't even begin to satisfy the claim that the US doesn't need them.

So, I understand that reading sources in the thread can sometimes be hard. It's OK, we can learn together.

A U.S. Department of Homeland Security official told Reuters this week that U.S. companies and the government have been paying above market price for much of the gear purchased overseas.

The official, who requested anonymity to discuss the matter, said the U.S. would not stop buying "until we have way too much" and could still be searching out protective gear abroad through August.

"We've gotten our hands on every bit of it that we can," the official said.

- Source: CBC

[fwc577]

This sounds suspiciously like one of those hate-boners you're trying to deny.

I can't imagine how anyone, anywhere can suggest that the US has (or is even in the process of obtaining) "more than what they require". A cursory look at the numbers from the US, as well as the bickering going on between the White House and state governors would belie that sentiment.

Even if you want to make the claim that those other countries need those supplies, too, it doesn't even begin to satisfy the claim that the US doesn't need them.

Hands down, it looks like the US is going to be the hardest hit country based on reported data.

I already see Italy's numbers slowing down over the last few days. They've got a long way to go. Looking at the numbers though, the US is ramping up and it's only beginning. The government believes that we will peak sometime in mid-to-late May but I think they're wrong. We will hit six digits in the death toll by the end of May.

[Davidkylo]

What you all think about it? what's it actually is? and how long it take to finish.?

Anyone up for the answer

[Endus]

What sort of response do you think would be appropriate? It's hard to envision what appropriate retaliatory measures would be in this sort of situation. Especially as a Canadian, it's an incredibly awkward situation we've found ourselves in. Our closest ally has suggested banning shipments of 3M masks to other countries - including ourselves - and there are now accusations being put towards the United States is partaking in piracy to secure more resources for themselves. Not even looking back at how we've helped America before the current administration, we've taken a lot of heat from China to uphold our obligations to America under our extradition treaties by holding Meng Wanzhou. This has lead to a sort of trade war with China, as well as Canadian politicians being held hostage by China. Now, in the hour of need, we find that it's China, not America, that's willing to help us. It's hard to not let this spurning colour what decisions I think we should take.

Economic responses.

I've heard that 3M's primary source for pulp for making the N95 masks is Port Coquitlam, in BC, for instance. Maybe we should just not be selling that to Americans if they're going to use it to produce stuff they're going to refuse to allow us to purchase back.

[PhaelixWW]

So, I understand that reading sources in the thread can sometimes be hard. It's OK, we can learn together.

Aw, aren't you cute.

You're waving around, as evidence, an anonymous source, making an exaggerated statement about future purchases that they have no control over, in a situation that is far from over, about levels of gear that are fairly impossible to fully predict.

Except to say that the US, just like many countries, desperately need them.

I guess I should feel dutifully chastened, now, eh?

[Cosmic Janitor]

Just popped in here to say it's only been a couple of weeks but I'm beginning to understand the concept of child brides and arranged marriages. I think I need to find my daughter a husband ASAP to get her out of the house. She's only 14 but me and the wife are to the point where we've considered smothering her in her sleep. My wife got offended when I asked her if she was like this when she was a teen and she claims not to have been. But I texted my BIL and he said she's lying.

Well at least all the parents get a taste of their parenting results themselves now. I wonder how many "angels" have been unmasked in the eyes of doting parents :p.

Btw, I'll give you 3 rolls of tripple layered toilet paper with cotton and 2/5th of a donkey, don't try to haggle, I already barely make a profit with the shipping ;).

[Grokk]

Lots of people fled Detroit and the southern part of the state and went "up north", like the Upper Peninsula. You know, the place where there are no fucking hospitals because there are no towns. They thought they'd escape. Idiots.

I mean to be fair there have been very very few reported deaths in the northern part of Michigan, particularly in the UP. 26 total cases and 3 deaths as of 3 P.M. yesterday. Not sure if those numbers have gone up any in the last 24 hours, I suppose they probably have moderately.

Even if you draw an imaginary line halfway through the lower portion of the state, the number of confirmed cases as well as deaths are extremely low.
So I'm not quite sure why "escaping" to the north would qualify any of them as idiots. Granted if you do happen to have it and are in an area with no access to medical help/hospitals then you are shit outta luck. I'd imagine the actual numbers that this scenario has happened to though is super low.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/healt...s-of-march-12/

[lockedout]

African Americans tends to be poorer, poor people have less access to healthcare in the US. Therefor poor people die more.
Therefor African Americans die more.

Poor people on welfare have Medicare.

[PhaelixWW]

Economic responses.

I've heard that 3M's primary source for pulp for making the N95 masks is Port Coquitlam, in BC, for instance. Maybe we should just not be selling that to Americans if they're going to use it to produce stuff they're going to refuse to allow us to purchase back.

Fucking relax, FFS.

Two days ago: 3M will continue to export masks to Canada: White House trade adviser Peter Navarro

[Krastyn]

Now, in the hour of need, we find that it's China, not America, that's willing to help us.

I also forgot to comment on this gem of a quote.

Unless a country is depriving their own citizens to send the goods to other countries, said country is in fact oversupplied. So you praise China for being oversupplied while ragging on the US for trying to get to the same point (for which you have not supplied any indication of where that point is, or how close they are to being at it), is massively hypocritical.

Unless you're going to argue that China hasn't bought any masks since 2019, which is also comical.

[Noxx79]

Maggie Haberman. Not surprised.

Weird how you didn’t refute anything.

It’s almost like you’ve been following a conman for 3+ years and it is destroying you Inside that you’ve been conned. But you can’t admit it. It would mean your life and ideology is based on a con.

Refute the evidence.

[Magical Mudcrab]

There's scrutiny and then there's outright lying, which is what it currently appears to be.

Another fantastic start from this fallacious fiend, who continues to poison the well while lying about what his sources say. 10/10, good start.

You haven't provided any reasons or in your statement about why their actions are abhorrent or a threat to the international community, or how it is any different from similar actions of dozens of other countries.

I've not seen these actions being taken on this scale; multiple western nations are claiming the US is intentionally doing this, and this has caused countries like Brazil to run out of medical resources without the ability to resupply for weeks - at least. If it needs to be broken down why the US doing this is abhorrent, then you obviously do not care about the well-being of less prosperous nations; whether this is simply a lack of empathy, or simply good-old racism, is to be seen.

Yet this only makes the news because it is America. Other countries have moved to restrict goods from export already, and it isn't front page news for multiple days across multiple countries.

What countries? If you have sources for some, post them. I'll look at what they've stopped exporting and give them shit if it's relevant. As it currently stands, America is the only world power doing this to the point that it makes some countries simply unable to purchase medical supplies.

No evidence yet has been provided that they were stolen.

Aside from the fact that Germany has reported that the resources were diverted to a country that is already purchasing sold items, and the distributors renege on agreements. I'll grant you that Germany has not produced any documents showing they're definitely stolen as of yet, and that's something I've consistently been saying, but it's incredibly suspicious.

Which is what almost every single other country in the world is trying to do. No country knows exactly how many of any supply they need. You can't. So you always plan to buy more, just in case.

Prices increase anytime there is a shortage. This isn't the sole fault of the US. There already is a shortage, so again, saying the US actions is causing this is disingenuous at best.

Can you tell me exactly how many masks the US needs, and at what point it would be considered over purchasing?

It's almost like the source you linked stated that the US wants to purchase these supplies "until we have way too much". I understand how America's actions in this case may seem like it wouldn't cause any more of a disturbance, but the problem is you have one country buying the supplies of multiple countries at inflated costs; the US has effectively made the price a bidding war that impoverished or otherwise less wealthy nations cannot compete with, on top of the issues related to supply.

You mean one statement by one person, that may not have actually happened, and may be speaking in hyperbole? As every other example listed states that people were just outbid. Even if they were on the tarmac, that is something that should be brought up with company they purchased the goods from. Seems like Germany needs to have a talk with their German company.

Again, you have not read the article you posted.
The supplies to Germany, from what they have said, were paid for and was diverted.
It's the supplies to France and Brazil that are being cancelled by suppliers, because the US is offering multiple times the price after agreements had already been signed.

So what you're telling me, is that in a situation of shortage of supply, money wins out. Are you honestly really surprised at this? That's what the "unfair tactics" are. They're spending more money.

This result was blatantly obvious weeks ago. Countries with resources are going to get the most of the supplies they need. Those without won't.

And once again, to the point in bold. every country in the world is trying to ensure they have more supplies than they need.

What a ridiculous way to try and flagrantly handwave malicious actions by a world power. Other world powers are donating excess equipment, including Germany and China who are sending excess ventilators to some of the most afflicted countries. The only country that's trying to procure a surplus at the expense of allies seems to be America.

[Draco-Onis]

Is this truth or myth?

Except the organic food, healthy food is actually cheaper than other food.
For example, bats are expensive. Now we know it is unhealthy.

Poor communities have very low access to healthy foods most of these neighborhoods are serviced by dollar stores very few have full grocery stores. I don't think it's a myth especially if you take into account labor you can't beat places like McDonalds for things like that.

[Magical Mudcrab]

I also forgot to comment on this gem of a quote.

Unless a country is depriving their own citizens to send the goods to other countries, said country is in fact oversupplied. So you praise China for being oversupplied while ragging on the US for trying to get to the same point (for which you have not supplied any indication of where that point is, or how close they are to being at it), is massively hypocritical.

Unless you're going to argue that China hasn't bought any masks since 2019, which is also comical.

I can see now that you're just plain disingenuous, and I was mistaken for even taking you seriously.

China is distributing its surplus, a surplus that was obtained when they were the only afflicted nation. America is currently - while the pandemic is ongoing and not slowing down for some countries - simply hoarding, and denying other countries the ability to purchase equipment. These are not equitable situations.

[Draco-Onis]

I know this is the meme, but it's not technically true. The US is in the top 20, but there are a lot of other countries with a higher average BMI (if that's the scale you choose to go by).

I concede that this probably wasn't the point you were highlighting (since there are undoubtedly more obese people in the US than other countries purely because of the total amount of people), but you should probably say "one of the fattest" instead of "fattest" for accuracy's sake.

You are correct per capita we are not but the sheer percentage (37-38%) of such a large population which is obese puts a lot of people at risk. It also doesn't take into account people who are overweight near obese but not quite.

[Poopymonster]

I mean to be fair there have been very very few reported deaths in the northern part of Michigan, particularly in the UP. 26 total cases and 3 deaths as of 3 P.M. yesterday. Not sure if those numbers have gone up any in the last 24 hours, I suppose they probably have moderately.

Even if you draw an imaginary line halfway through the lower portion of the state, the number of confirmed cases as well as deaths are extremely low.
So I'm not quite sure why "escaping" to the north would qualify any of them as idiots. Granted if you do happen to have it and are in an area with no access to medical help/hospitals then you are shit outta luck. I'd imagine the actual numbers that this scenario has happened to though is super low.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/healt...s-of-march-12/

The info was out there, long incubation period. Cases popped up in Detroit. You've been exposed most likely. So instead of hunkering down for the ride, "I'll take my ass up north where there are few medical facilities where it's safe." Barn doors and horses spring to mind. They're spreading it further with their antics.

I have this sick feeling that people hiding in their cabins up north, their deer camp bullshit...later this year someone is gonna find some bodies. Shit out of luck idiot bodies.

[PhaelixWW]

I can see now that you're just plain disingenuous

America is currently simply hoarding

The irony in these two assertions is palpable.