Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[breadisfunny]

If anywhere else in the US is like Georgia, I have a feeling we're going to see a surge of cases after Easter weekend. I took a trip out to get some stuff for the dogs, and the roads had even more traffic than they did on a normal weekend in the Before Times. Driving by Wal-Mart, they're doing the controlled entry thing with limited people in the store at a time, and they had a pretty big line going on. Oh dear.

we aren't doing anything like controlled entry here. there are people with masks on and MOST people obeying the 6ft rule (though some jackasses ignore it and get really close to people.) but a lot of people still going outside living their everyday lives like nothings changed. hell one of my relatives made a trip over to my house today to visit my folks home. no other reason than to say hello. pretty much everyone here is not listening to the governor's lockdown orders unless forced to. i predict the u.s. is in for a bad time.

[Masark]

Some old people aren't self-centred and can appreciate they've already lived rich lives.

Most old people haven't succumbed to Far-Right Dementia and thus aren't into murder-suicide. Which is what your proposal is.

[I Push Buttons]

Sureeee, we just needed to figure out how to build 100x the field hospitals, find another 500,000 respirators and somehow manage to keep healthcare workers working....

oh and a much bigger island to mass grave the people who die from that plan.

I assume you mean ventilators and I am by no means agreeing with the person you are quoting, but as we learn more about the disease, perhaps we might not need as many as we presume.

I have been watching some videos from some NYC ER doctor named Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell recently and he has been questioning whether ventilator protocols need to be changed with this virus.

Basically his line of reasoning is that right now, EVERYONE is assuming that CCP virus is causing Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS). He says they assume that because the symptoms all fit ARDS, patients have a low P/F ratio, they have bilateral infiltrates, and neither of those things are explained by an underlying heart issue; ARDS is diagnosed just by that combo of things, its not like cancer or an infection where there is some test or biopsy that 100% confirms it, its just "do you have these things?" "yes" "ok then we call that ARDS"... But he questions whether people suffering of the virus actually have ARDS right away or if ARDS is a later development of the disease/damage to the lungs.

He describes how his patients are basically suffering from what is functionally equivalent to altitude related hypoxia, and its as if they were taken tens of thousands of feet up in an airplane and then the cabin was depressurized. He says that he doubts they have ARDS early on and that in ventilating all these people, the ventilators could actually be damaging their lungs because lungs themselves aren't failing, that some other underlying cause is preventing their blood from oxygenating.

Then you have studies like this coming out:
https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-...hyrin/11938173

Which describes CCP virus as basically preventing hemoglobin from adequately transporting oxygen, which would explain the above ER doctor's observations.

All of this also accounts for how most info out there says like 80%-90% of the patients that get bad enough that they need invasive ventilation die anyways... That makes sense if, as the ER doctor suggests, the ventilator isn't actually doing anything for them.

---

TL;DR: An emerging theory is that people's lung's are working fine early on in the disease, even when their oxygen levels are low, the virus is just preventing the hemoglobin in their blood from doing the gas exchange in their lungs; and ventilating them isn't really helping and could even be doing more harm than good (in that it could be physically damaging their lungs), which itself could be causing real ARDS to happen.

[Stelio Kontos]

Some old people aren't self-centred and can appreciate they've already lived rich lives.

Not wanting to die a horrible death gasping for air is selfish?

This is a clown world...

[Crissi]

Not wanting to die a horrible death gasping for air is selfish?

This is a clown world...

I know right? Also, apparently the grief of the children and grandchildren left behind is a good price to pay to the economy! The US runs on tears.

[breadisfunny]

I know right? Also, apparently the grief of the children and grandchildren left behind is a good price to pay to the economy! The US runs on tears.

i know right who cares about all those corpses as long as we can have our precious ipods and nascars!

[Stelio Kontos]

I know right? Also, apparently the grief of the children and grandchildren left behind is a good price to pay to the economy! The US runs on tears.

I know, I don't know what will get me first, the virus or all the nosebleeds from all these brainlet hot takes...

[Crissi]

I know, I don't know what will get me first, the virus or all the nosebleeds from all these brainlet hot takes...

My Lt Gov has the exact same opinion, and yet he'd likely try to live at any cost himself despite being one of those "old" people.

Fantastic lack of empathy.

[breadisfunny]

My Lt Gov has the exact same opinion, and yet he'd likely try to live at any cost himself despite being one of those "old" people.

Fantastic lack of empathy.

our governor is trying his best but most people here aren't taking the lockdown seriously.

[Stelio Kontos]

My Lt Gov has the exact same opinion, and yet he'd likely try to live at any cost himself despite being one of those "old" people.

Fantastic lack of empathy.

Oh you know any of those rich and powerful bastards ain't dying. They can hire personal physicians, buy ventilators or respirators, and then turn around and tell us we should just die because

[breadisfunny]

Oh you know any of those rich and powerful bastards ain't dying. They can hire personal physicians, buy ventilators or respirators, and then turn around and tell us we should just die because

don't forgot the stimulus package. only 1200$ for poor people but rich people all those trillions.

[Stelio Kontos]

don't forgot the stimulus package. only 1200$ for poor people but rich people all those trillions.

Yeah, and it's not like it's a windfall or anything, it's our own goddamn taxes, but they're acting like fucking Edwardian-era bankers having to give alms to the paupers.

[PhaelixWW]

To go from 1 to 16% the infection needs to double 4 times. To go from 16 to 64 it needs to double twice. 15 to 60 is far closer than 0 to 15. But I'm sure you knew that already.

See, you keep mistakenly thinking that the doubling rate is going to stay the same. The herd immunity models are more like an S-curve; once you reach at or just before the halfway point towards that herd immunity threshold, the infection rate starts slowing down. The time it takes to achieve half of the herd immunity threshold is roughly half the overall time. So if it took 2-3 months to reach 15%, and you'd achieve 30% in another week, it'd still take 2-3 months + a week to achieve that herd immunity threshold of 60%.

If you didn't have a lockdown to ease in the first place, like say Sweden, you could achieve herd immunity in the first wave rather than doing it in two with the second wave potentially far more dangerous than the first.

You'd achieve that herd immunity threshold faster, but you'd overwhelm your health care capacity immediately and many more people would die than otherwise. And no, the second wave is not "potentially far more dangerous than the first". Why on earth would it be?

And the rest is pretty much you are not, with an open mind, willing to listen to medical professionals who have been at the top of their game that social distancing is wrong at best and downright dangerous to the elderly at worst...

What? I listened. And his conclusion is not sound. Nor is it mathematically valid. Nor can it coexist with the advice and wisdom of many, many more medical professionals who have been at the top of their game that social distancing will save lives.

[Logwyn]

If anywhere else in the US is like Georgia, I have a feeling we're going to see a surge of cases after Easter weekend. I took a trip out to get some stuff for the dogs, and the roads had even more traffic than they did on a normal weekend in the Before Times. Driving by Wal-Mart, they're doing the controlled entry thing with limited people in the store at a time, and they had a pretty big line going on. Oh dear.

Ugh. I won't be going a Walmart anytime soon then. Still going with delivery. If only I could find TP~

[Theodarzna]

My Lt Gov has the exact same opinion, and yet he'd likely try to live at any cost himself despite being one of those "old" people.

Fantastic lack of empathy.

It is wild that after less than a week that guy was out front and center with the "We must sacrifice grandma to Mammon to make Market line go up!"

[ErrandRunner]

You can have no health care without an economy. Yes, it's sad that grandma Yetti dies but you need to look at the big picture here.

[Masark]

You can have no health care without an economy. Yes, it's sad that grandma Yetti dies but you need to look at the big picture here.

Big picture:

Your solution results in a devastated economy AND millions of deaths.

Our solution is propping up the economy and minimizing deaths.

[Puupi]

My brain hurts after reading through the stuff that has been going on in this thread last night. Luckily I took no part in it. :S

[Shalcker]

TL;DR: An emerging theory is that people's lung's are working fine early on in the disease, even when their oxygen levels are low, the virus is just preventing the hemoglobin in their blood from doing the gas exchange in their lungs; and ventilating them isn't really helping and could even be doing more harm than good (in that it could be physically damaging their lungs), which itself could be causing real ARDS to happen.

Just want to note that in this video (9 minute mark, in-depth explanation) UK doctor says he is not seeing readings/progression that should happen if that was the case:



Might be that it progresses differently in different patients, or there are some other factors involved.

[Crissi]

You can have no health care without an economy. Yes, it's sad that grandma Yetti dies but you need to look at the big picture here.

I dont know about you, but I dont want my parents to die. Id rather keep them around, and people being cavelier about other innocent people's deaths is really just awful.

BUT TEH ECONOMIEZZZZ is stupid. It will eventually open back up, but rushing it could actually hurt it too ebcause whose gonna go out and buy shit when people are dying from a pandemic?