Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Granyala]

But there are a shitton of people who will ignore the law because they'll just claim that they never came within 6' (or 1.5m) of another person, even if they did. The only way to easily prove that they're violating the law is through a universal mask-wearing mandate. Compliance is almost certainly higher with a universal public mask-wearing mandate than a "when within 6 feet" mandate.

Compliance would be even higher if they actually policed this stuff. That gets more feasible the smaller the areas are.

You are right though: sadly laws have to take psychology into account, not only science and logic. As much as I hate to admit it, locking down the city core was probably done not because it was necessary in any scientific manner but so the dumdums don't have to remember street and place names. Now you have a clearly defined section, cross a bridge and you know you are in mask territory, cross a bridge again and you can take it off.

[Spectral]

I can absolutely promise you that I'm not wearing a mask to go for a trail run. If I'm ticketed as a result of that, I suppose I'll have to accept that I now live in a society that's completely lost its marbles.

[Edge-]

I can absolutely promise you that I'm not wearing a mask to go for a trail run. If I'm ticketed as a result of that, I suppose I'll have to accept that I now live in a society that's completely lost its marbles.

As I've said, this is the thinking of the type of person to loot aluminum/nylon/metal donation drives and steal from victory gardens during WWII.

[Spectral]

As I've said, this is the thinking of the type of person to loot aluminum/nylon/metal donation drives and steal from victory gardens during WWII.

What, not being such a scientifically unsophisticated nut that you cover your face while running around outside?

I suppose I shouldn't underestimate the neuroses of my fellow man at this point, but the level of absurdity really is becoming hard to believe. The risk tolerance around things like walking around outside with a mask don't map onto how anyone's ever lived their life until now. There's essentially zero risk to anyone, but we really have convinced people that they need to walk around with their face covered, alone in a park. It's bizarre.

[cubby]

Mutation of COVID-19 spreading quickly in Europe.

At some point we're going to actually be in a Stephen King novel.

[Granyala]

I suppose I shouldn't underestimate the neuroses of my fellow man at this point, but it's still remarkable.

Yep, you can't really argue against mask fetishes at this point. Best to stay out of the areas that have a mandate, if possible. If a mask provides 90% protection, you staying out will provide 100%.

Luckily, for a run/stroll, that should be rather easy to do.
In my case: I merely have to use the other side of the river. Apparently one waterside is safe for running w/o masks, the other is not. *chuckles*

It'd be so hilariously comical... if people wouldn't be so serious about it.

Don't worry, numbers will continue to climb, soon you won't be able to leave your house w/o the new fashion wear at all.

[unfilteredJW]

What, not being such a scientifically unsophisticated nut that you cover your face while running around outside?

I suppose I shouldn't underestimate the neuroses of my fellow man at this point, but the level of absurdity really is becoming hard to believe. The risk tolerance around things like walking around outside with a mask don't map onto how anyone's ever lived their life until now. There's essentially zero risk to anyone, but we really have convinced people that they need to walk around with their face covered, alone in a park. It's bizarre.

Yeah, doing things for the sake of others you might run into is really bizarre.

[Edge-]

Don't worry, numbers will continue to climb, soon you won't be able to leave your house w/o the new fashion wear at all.

I mean...if folks don't wear their fuckin masks and follow guidance then yeah, it's gonna be mandated.

It's weird that countries where mask wearing isn't demonized but rather promoted and normalized (Japan, Korea, etc.) have seen huge benefits in reducing the spread of the virus in part due to extensive mask wearing.

Meanwhile out here everyone's complaining about their damn chin diapers and how it's infringing on their freedoms and shit.

[Spectral]

Yeah, doing things for the sake of others you might run into is really bizarre.

There is no benefit - if you wear a mask to run, you're just engaging in superstition.

[PhaelixWW]

lol... they're idiots because the government pushed a new vaccine that people got narcolepsy from and it hurt peoples trust in new vaccines pushed by the government?

the blame is really on the government for pushing a new vaccine without knowing the side effects... that won't be something people forget...

It was one particular version of one vaccine which increased the chance of a non-life-threatening condition, and only in one age group (4-19).

Even if the covid vaccine was guaranteed to have as bad a reaction as the 2009 Pandemrix vaccine, it would still be worth it for the entire adult population. And there's very little reason to think that the vaccine would be as flawed as that. That's what we have phase 3 trials for, after all.

[PhaelixWW]

Compliance would be even higher if they actually policed this stuff. That gets more feasible the smaller the areas are.

Hmm, no, that doesn't track. They're not going to flood those areas with extra police just to hand out fines. If anything, a broader, even if slightly less frequent, enforcement would have more of an effect on keeping people masked when they should be.

You are right though: sadly laws have to take psychology into account, not only science and logic. As much as I hate to admit it, locking down the city core was probably done not because it was necessary in any scientific manner but so the dumdums don't have to remember street and place names. Now you have a clearly defined section, cross a bridge and you know you are in mask territory, cross a bridge again and you can take it off.

Yeah, that's always been my point. Realistically, if we all acted the way we should, this pandemic would have fizzled out a long time ago. But that's a pipe dream, because people are people, and the government has to take that into account.

[Forogil]

The general scientific consensus is that wearing a mask is a decent precaution. So...

The consensus is about wearing some masks, in some settings.

The WHO's guidance, https://www.who.int/publications/i/i...ncov)-outbreak (which will be revised if more information comes in) still says that
"At the present time, the widespread use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not yet supported by high quality or direct scientific evidence and there are potential benefits and harms to consider (see below)", and only gives examples of healthy individuals wearing non-medical masks in crowded settings where physical distancing cannot be maintained (grocery stores, slums, public transports, etc).

Obviously WHO says that you should follow the local advice.

[Edge-]

south korea engaged in methods of tracing that would be illegal to even do in several countries in the west...

Such as? The government mandated tracking app? I mean, we can agree that it likely wouldn't pass muster in the West, but there's no arguing that the mask wearing as a cultural norm in countries like South Korea and Japan have had a positive impact on their ability to limit the spread of the virus.

[Granyala]

I mean...if folks don't wear their fuckin masks and follow guidance then yeah, it's gonna be mandated.

I my city, people followed mask mandates to 90%.
Numbers climb anyway.

[PhaelixWW]

Mutation of COVID-19 spreading quickly in Europe.

At some point we're going to actually be in a Stephen King novel.

Still need more tentacles, first.

[Edge-]

The consensus is about wearing some masks, in some settings.

The WHO's guidance, https://www.who.int/publications/i/i...ncov)-outbreak (which will be revised if more information comes in) still says that
"At the present time, the widespread use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not yet supported by high quality or direct scientific evidence and there are potential benefits and harms to consider (see below)", and only gives examples of healthy individuals wearing non-medical masks in crowded settings where physical distancing cannot be maintained (grocery stores, slums, public transports, etc).

Obviously WHO says that you should follow the local advice.

I mean, if you don't include the paragraph IMMEDIATELY following that one, sure. But that'd be a dishonest framing of the WHO guidance -

However, taking into account the available studies evaluating pre- and asymptomatic transmission, a growing compendium of observational evidence on the use of masks by the general public in several countries, individual values and preferences, as well as the difficulty of physical distancing in many contexts, WHO has updated its guidance to advise that to prevent COVID-19 transmission effectively in areas of community transmission, governments should encourage the general public to wear masks in specific situations and settings as part of a comprehensive approach to suppress SARS-CoV-2 transmission (Table 2).

"high quality or direct scientific evidence" is a high threshhold, and given how much we continue to not know about the virus is not an uncommon refrain from researchers.

- - - Updated - - -

I my city, people followed mask mandates to 90%.
Numbers climb anyway.

Because that 10% that don't can easily shit it up for the 90% who do. That's how pandemics work, if even a small number of people fuck up it has cascading effects.

[PhaelixWW]

lol... you're missing the point...

I really don't think so, but feel free to try to explain your point.

[Edge-]

they tracked everyone by mobile phones location who had been near where someone had been who was infected... and contacted them telling them to get tested... that kind of surveillance would be political suicide here... i don't think it would be looked upon kindly in the us either...

Sure, that would be strongly rejected by privacy advocates and, as I said, likely wouldn't pass legal muster out here.

But that's not specifically necessary, and as I said the normalization of mask wearing in those countries, compared to the US where people throw temper tantrums over it, has strong positive impacts that are born out by the data.

[Forogil]

When used correct, tobad 99% is not doing that so masks are useless.
Infact it might even help the spread since people put their masks on and off with their hands all the time and not throw them away after 1 time use.

WHO starts the list of potential harms/disadvantages with these two, including the case of using the mask after it is wet (so it's not sufficient to throw it away after use - if it gets wet before that you should also throw it away safely). (There are more items in the list.)

They also explain that decision makers should clearly communicate the purpose of wearing a mask. Explain what wearing a mask may achieve and what it will not achieve, and communicate clearly that this is one part of a package of measures along with hand hygiene, physical distancing and other measures that are all necessary and all reinforce each other; and train people in mask-use.

[PhaelixWW]

I my city, people followed mask mandates to 90%.
Numbers climb anyway.

And yet it's entirely possible, even likely, that had you not had the mask-wearing adherence you do, the numbers might be climbing even faster.