Which is why it would be very toxic if Blizzard dared push the idea that the Burning of Teldrassil (genocide) was done "for the greater good". Not even the Starcraft writing team did this, in fact Kerrigan accepts to carry the burden of Xel'naga precisely to atone for the countless innocent lives she's killed.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
Why does everyone keep saying "He's dead" like that ends the discussion? Yes, he's dead. And we're literally going to the land of the dead this expansion. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
As for his voicelines, that's like saying we shouldn't have taken the Puzzle Box seriously about Ny'alotha. Except now it's the final raid of BfA.
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So, by that logic, N'Zoth returned to Ny'alotha when killed him? That doesn't make any sense and isn't mentioned anywhere in the lore. In fact, the devs have been cagey about what happens to the Old Gods after death.
Last edited by AbalDarkwind; 2020-02-06 at 03:15 PM.
Professor of History at Dalaran University
Whether intended or not, stories always carry with them ideas that usually reflect upon certain ideological or moral frameworks. If you decide to tell a story in which committing a genocide is ennobled through some made up necessity and therefor displayed as a logical and morally justified action, then what kind of morals and ideas does that story promote?
Look, I'm not saying that this would have some demonstrably negative effect on whoever watches that story unfold and Blizzard's writing team is free to do whatever they want but at the same time you have to ask yourself: who are they writing this for? Who would find such a narrative relatable or valuable on any level?
That sometimes bad deeds are done for good reasons? It all depends on how it's told... take note I don't argue if it's good storytelling or not. But saying that just because it's genocide then suddenly context don't matter, context is everything. We do that with killings, we do that with literally all other topics.
If Sylv gets redeemed you think the point of the story is to say "WOO GENOCIDES ARE GOOD"... hardly. Doing something for greater good doesn't mean the action isn't bad.
Desperation and good intentions is a common theme across all forms of media.It seems like all you see is genocide and not a narrative tool to drive home another point, just like with every other tool which isn't allowed or celebrated in the real world.Look, I'm not saying that this would have some demonstrably negative effect on whoever watches that story unfold and Blizzard's writing team is free to do whatever they want but at the same time you have to ask yourself: who are they writing this for? Who would find such a narrative relatable or valuable on any level?
I can't relate to murder, not in the least... it's everywhere in media though. Can i find murder stories relatable? Absolutely, because the bigger picture is rarely about the specific action of killing someone and instead of the emotions revolving around it. Frankly, reason why murder and death is used so much is because it's a tool that's easily used to show how severe or big someones emotion is. It magnifies it.
So why is genocide exempt from this? To me the answer is the same as with any other horrible action we accept in media.
Once again, I'm not saying it will be good story telling or that blizzard will pull it off and frankly I stopped caring about the story a long time ago.
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If you stopped caring why would you even enter a thread like this?Once again, I'm not saying it will be good story telling or that blizzard will pull it off and frankly I stopped caring about the story a long time ago.
It may not be Ny'alotha but I can bet they aren't gone for good, not as easy as the rest of us.So, by that logic, N'Zoth returned to Ny'alotha when killed him? That doesn't make any sense and isn't mentioned anywhere in the lore. In fact, the devs have been cagey about what happens to the Old Gods after death.
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
It's really not, she's been a baddie since WC3TFT, even back in vanilla WoW, quests you can see right now on Classic, she ordered the creation of the Blight, with the intent being "plaguing an entire world", and it's use being on "the rest of Azeroth"...
She also authorized testing this in development chemical weapon on captured civilians.
For her own revenge, not to protect the rest of the world... And she pursued that revenge regardless of how many bodies of innocents and people she claimed to care for (the forsaken, her subjects) she had to trample to get there.She openly fought the Lich King
Was just icing on the cake of her villainy.hand in the Battle of the Wrathgate
Unfortunately for your theory, this is incorrect, as Cairne Bloodhoof died shortly before Cataclysm started and he's not in the Maw, as shown by our being able to commune with and interact with his spirit during the Tauren heritage armor questline.I'd argue this is evidence that the mechanism of Death broke in Wrath as we know Kael'thas, who died late-TBC, went to Revendreath while Illidan went to Helheim. There are only two events that could have caused this in Wrath: the death of Yogg-Saron or the death of Arthas.
A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.
And Kael'thas sold out the world to the Burning Legion and went to Revendreth, not the Maw. Doing villainous things doesn't mean you go to the Maw. Being irredemable is what sends you to the Maw. I find it hard to believe that Sylvanas was irredeemable (At the time; now is more debatable) but Kael'thas can be redeemed.
That's fair, and it does track with other comments saying the mechanism of death broke during Legion rather than in Wrath. As an alternative, perhaps the Jailer broke the mechanism of death at the beginning of Legion in order to combat an increasingly more powerful Yogg by manipulating Vol'jin at the time of his death to make Sylvanas Warchief.Unfortunately for your theory, this is incorrect, as Cairne Bloodhoof died shortly before Cataclysm started and he's not in the Maw, as shown by our being able to commune with and interact with his spirit during the Tauren heritage armor questline.
I agree, which is why I made the theory in the first place. My theory is that Yogg entered the Shadowlands in a way similar to him entering the Emerald Dream. If I had to guess, it was through ICC being made of his living blood, and it being a direct mirror of Torghast.
Last edited by AbalDarkwind; 2020-02-06 at 07:05 PM.
Professor of History at Dalaran University
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
Murder is usually not really portrayed as morally justified in stories. Stories that involve murder usually explore the reasoning behind that action, what led to person A murdering person B etc. but it's really rare that it's actually depicted as the "right" course of action.
With killing it's a bit different because people find it way easier to justify killing people e.g. in self-defense, as an act of war which of course makes sense but even then, there's a point to be made about the glorification of violence that is often involved in showing the act of killing.
With genocide it's totally different. Most people can't even conceive a good enough reason that would justify something like a genocide. Again, this is not about not depicting a genocide or telling a story about it, it's about telling the story in a way that makes genocide the only "right" course of action.
Depends entirely why they did what they did. Maybe Kael thought he was doing the right thing for whatever reason, Kael was trying to save his people (doing the wrong thing for the right reasons)... Sylvanas didn't, even admitted she didn't care what happened to the world from that point on in Edge of Night, all she cared about was revenge, she wasn't trying to protect or save anything, she just wanted to kill Arthas and didn't care how many others she got killed along the way.
Last edited by Schattenlied; 2020-02-06 at 07:07 PM.
A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
Not true. Sylvanas, even as late as Stormheim in Legion, tried to enslave Eyir to create more Forsaken, long after she got her revenge on Arthas. She even says she wanted to spare the Forsaken their fate in Legion and in BfA. And at the end of the Loyalist questline, she essentially says they're on the right side of history. Why would she care and what is her motive if that's the case?
Professor of History at Dalaran University
For her own ends, not out of care for others... She wants an immortal army so she can kill even more people.
Yes, because she's working for the Jailor now.long after she got her revenge on Arthas
What she says to others and what she does for herself are two very different things. She also says that she only thinks of her subjects as arrows in a quiver, meaning tools to be used and discarded.She even says she wanted to spare the Forsaken their fate in Legion and in BfA.
A lie to keep loyalty of her most efficient killer, and probly the only person on Azeroth that could be a legitimate threat to her if they found out the truth.And at the end of the Loyalist questline, she essentially says they're on the right side of history. Why would she care and what is her motive if that's the case?
A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.