Is Classic too easy?

[Djuntas]

Classics difficulty setting cannot be defined by clearing the raids anymore. Speedrunning is a better metric for difficulty in that sense. In the end, it all comes down to what people think is fun. WoW is not a hard game, it never has been. The hardest part about WoW has always been organizing, tactics and preparation.

WoW is not a hard game? Bro have you raided on retail since wotlk? A LOT of bosses were down right hard - No way to brute force and even with a good team you cant do it without gear.

[Pohut]

All of this screams "I havnt actually done any recent mythic content". Players have those advantages RIGHT NOW and cannot even get half way through mythic after months and months of running it. There are plenty who can't even clear heroic. And yet apparantly, in 3 years, the content will magically get easier and thousands of guilds will be clearing it in an hour? Your level of delusion is higher than most.

Mythic? I don't think he's done Normal content.
What's he is describing is impossible even for Normal raids. LFR maybe. But then again Classic raid difficulty is comparable to LFR, so that makes sense.

[TrollHunter3000]

If they re-release Ny'Alotha 3 years from now and give all of the players most of the end of expansion gear, skills, itemizations, and talents then yea... it will be cleared by a thousand guilds pretty quickly.

Except they didn't do any of those things when they re-released AQ.

[sam86]

Are you suggesting Contra is suddenly easy? There are plenty of 30 year old games that are still very challenging. Yes, i realise your argument will be "But dem private server people been farming for YEARS!" But the reality is that ultra casual raid loggers with zero experience are still smashing this stuff.

for someone who memorize enemy patterns and play it for 15 years yes will be easy
for example i used to be able to finish Metal Slug X with 1 life on hardest difficulty, this year few months ago tried to play it i died way too much that it pissed me off (still finished it, but i think i needed over 50 life?)

[munkeyinorbit]

Dunno what to tell you. You can literally go look at any youtube video of basic gameplay from back then, I guarantee 90% are in yellow latency (250-500) and dipping into red (500+). And that's the people who had rigs good enough to record their gameplay, which was STILL uncommon back then.

You can spout your own experience as much as you want - YOUR experience doesn't speak to the average.

- - - Updated - - -



I'd recommend the same to you - But like you, I don't know if you actually ever played, and I don't presume otherwise. Your experience simply doesn't speak to the average. Keep talking about YOUR latency, but what that DOESN'T speak towards is the average player of the game.

I didn't poll everyone or look up any statistics but if we use the data we know then your number of 1000 is not common. We have 2 people saying you don't know what you are talking about. That means that you don't know what you are talking about. Until you provide proof that 1000 was common, which we have already proves it wasn't then you are simply wrong.

[arkanon]

for someone who memorize enemy patterns and play it for 15 years yes will be easy
for example i used to be able to finish Metal Slug X with 1 life on hardest difficulty, this year few months ago tried to play it i died way too much that it pissed me off (still finished it, but i think i needed over 50 life?)

Thats exactly the point - the age of wow is NOT what makes it easy. Neither is this bullshit about "practicing for 15 years". The overwhelming majority of wow subs never touched a private server. Classic isnt easy because of a handful of people who did play on PS for years and clear the content in 45 minutes, its easy because ultra casuals are clearing the same raid 15 minutes later.

Yes, years of practice and data has allowed these guys to clear the content in record time - but even the most casual players are clearing the same content, just a bit slower.

I will add that even after years of practice, even after thousands of attempts - Games like Contra still require extremely precise control inputs - something wow classic does not.

[Roar-Powah]

patch 1.12 gear and specs world buffs and itemization, also mob health and damage was changed from memory? = very bloated dps heals and tanking makes the game easy.
Now if classic started off from the start it would've been a bit of a different story, yes everything would've died faster than what it did back then, but that is due to people just getting better at games in general over the past 15 years.

I just hope Blizzard looks at TBC classic better in terms of what patch to launch at since it would kill TBC classic if they did the same as Vanilla classic.

[JCD000]

I'm sure it's been mentioned but classic is harder where it matters for most casuals, the world. Like some said, WoW was initally the casual MMO, so why wouldn't casual players wants more of a challenge where they actually play?

[Osmeric]

why wouldn't casual players wants more of a challenge where they actually play?

Most players don't actually want challenge.

[Grimreaper]

Most players don't actually want challenge.

If i want a challenge i'll play my NES/SNES.

[FireVoodoo]

Time consuming and grindy is not a real substitute for true difficulty. This is proven by how quickly new content is cleared by top guilds. Classic is easy, but at the end of the day that's fine.

God help me. I’m mostly reader of this nonsense but sometimes just rolling my eyes doesn’t help.

What is so time-consuming about Classic? I’m full t2 playing 3 hrs per week – one raid night to clear BWL-MC-Ony in 3 hrs …

…I mean before p6. Now its 2 raid nights. Whatever

That’s all it takes for me to be relevant in Classic. No WQs, no stupid table no nothing (and don’t start “you don’t have to do it”)

The rest of the week I log for 15 mins to check AH - did almost 9 k without stepping outside of SW (except to raid) ever in the last 2 month.

Main advantage of Classic for me - It is fun and meaningful (as MMO can be) & I’m not hamster in the wheel, not a lab rat directed to do billion mindless tasks and still lagging behind “dedicated” crowd.

Classic was created by relatively humble company shyly seeking to entertain me.

Retail is run by psychopaths ruthlessly seeking to glue me with every Skinner box tool available.

[Mosha]

God help me. I’m mostly reader of this nonsense but sometimes just rolling my eyes doesn’t help.

What is so time-consuming about Classic? I’m full t2 playing 3 hrs per week – one raid night to clear BWL-MC-Ony in 3 hrs …

…I mean before p6. Now its 2 raid nights. Whatever

That’s all it takes for me to be relevant in Classic. No WQs, no stupid table no nothing (and don’t start “you don’t have to do it”)

The rest of the week I log for 15 mins to check AH - did almost 9 k without stepping outside of SW (except to raid) ever in the last 2 month.

Main advantage of Classic for me - It is fun and meaningful (as MMO can be) & I’m not hamster in the wheel, not a lab rat directed to do billion mindless tasks and still lagging behind “dedicated” crowd.

Classic was created by relatively humble company shyly seeking to entertain me.

Retail is run by psychopaths ruthlessly seeking to glue me with every Skinner box tool available.

It is time consuming compared to retail for many reasons. That’s not suggesting that you can’t play the game in a non time consuming way, but rather that it is MORE time consuming than retail given what you’re aiming for.

For example, if I just want to login to clear 5 dungeons. I can do that in like 30-40 mins in retail. Q up for the dungeon, speed clear them, and it’s done. In classic it takes way longer to do this.

In retail you can be just as successful queing 2 hours a week raiding than you would queing 4 in classic. It’s just classic has a lot more.... time wasting? Mechanics.

[Astator]

Classic is way easier than Vanilla was.

15 years ago, there were not much of: best-in-slot gear list, best talents list, strat videos, team voice, addons, stable internet connections and players that already have the experience of clearing encounters multiple times.

[WowClassic]

Classic was created by relatively humble company shyly seeking to entertain me.

Retail is run by psychopaths ruthlessly seeking to glue me with every Skinner box tool available.

Perfectly put

[Niwes]

It is time consuming compared to retail for many reasons. That’s not suggesting that you can’t play the game in a non time consuming way, but rather that it is MORE time consuming than retail given what you’re aiming for.

For example, if I just want to login to clear 5 dungeons. I can do that in like 30-40 mins in retail. Q up for the dungeon, speed clear them, and it’s done. In classic it takes way longer to do this.

In retail you can be just as successful queing 2 hours a week raiding than you would queing 4 in classic. It’s just classic has a lot more.... time wasting? Mechanics.

since blizzards retail treadmill wow game design, i am really NOT sure about that...

[agentsi]

Perfectly put

Quote Originally Posted by FireVoodoo View Post

Classic was created by relatively humble company shyly seeking to entertain me.

Retail is run by psychopaths ruthlessly seeking to glue me with every Skinner box tool available.
Perfectly put



Agreed 100%.


I wonder if someone should remind them of such.

[Aleksej89]

Leveling in classic is a lot harder than in modern.
Same with professions and most regular dungeons.

Raiding obviously harder in modern but pre-raid grinding was "harder" in vanilla.
Overall outdoor content much harder in vanilla.

[arkanon]

Leveling in classic is a lot harder than in modern.
Same with professions and most regular dungeons.

Raiding obviously harder in modern but pre-raid grinding was "harder" in vanilla.
Overall outdoor content much harder in vanilla.

There is no "pre raid grind" - classic proved without a doubt this was a fabrication of the "trust me, its hard" crowd. Turns out you didnt even need to be level 60 to raid, let alone geared or prepped.

- - - Updated - - -

Classic is way easier than Vanilla was.

15 years ago, there were not much of: best-in-slot gear list, best talents list, strat videos, team voice, addons, stable internet connections and players that already have the experience of clearing encounters multiple times.

BIS lists absolutely existed, strats were readily available, and no video required as they are so braindead simple, addons were MORE powerful during vanilla, not less, but yes, obviously internet connections have improved. Lastly, the old "but players have cleared it multiple times" falls over when you face the reality that a hell of a lot of classic players have never played vanilla, or a PS.

Of my raid team of 50-60 players, only 5 of us ever played in vanilla, and ZERO have played on a PS. Everything has died in either 1 or 2 attempts. No comms, no world buffs, no mandatory consumables - just turn up, walk in, have a laugh and kill some ultra casual content, similar to LFR.

[WowClassic]

There is no "pre raid grind" - classic proved without a doubt this was a fabrication of the "trust me, its hard" crowd. Turns out you didnt even need to be level 60 to raid, let alone geared or prepped.

Well, yeah, there kind of is, because no guild will accept someone that hasn't made the effort to at least get prebis. A bit like you dont need the kind ilvl that people require to do most mythics but there is still a community imposed expectation for it

[arkanon]

Well, yeah, there kind of is, because no guild will accept someone that hasn't made the effort to at least get prebis. A bit like you dont need the kind ilvl that people require to do most mythics but there is still a community imposed expectation for it

Wrong - guilds just want 40 people - they dont actually care. I take pugs with me pretty frequently - so long as they can physically enter the raid - thats enough. Nothing else matters. So 3 of your 40 raiders are in greens - who cares - most of this content can be cleared by 25-30 players comfortably.