Alliance mythic raiding will die out sooner or later

[KaPe]

ITT: people who don't understand how strong shadowmeld and humans in general are.

In this post: Someone who didn't read the thread title and doesn't realize that shadowmeld is useless in raid, while humans have ... what exactly?

[DazManianDevil]

In this post: Someone who didn't read the thread title and doesn't realize that shadowmeld is useless in raid, while humans have ... what exactly?

In PvE, Humans seem to be in the top 3 races for over half the specs I bothered to look at on Bloodmallet due to enhanced secondary stats.
Is that enough to matter? Of course not, poor Alliance

[KaPe]

In PvE, Humans seem to be in the top 3 races for over half the specs I bothered to look at on Bloodmallet due to enhanced secondary stats.
Is that enough to matter? Of course not, poor Alliance

So you were - maybe - right on one thing, to a degree which doesn't really matter when compared to the potential loss in recruitment pool (or BoE availability). But what about Shadowmeld in Mythic raiding? What incredible advantage it would have offered to Method so they could win that last WFR?

And these things actually affect people outside of the very top. When cross-server mythic raids aren't opened, because Alliance Hall of Fame takes five time as long to fill up, there's something wrong. On Uu'nat, they couldn't make it to 100. A brand new system that was supposed to give some minor encouragements for less played faction, failed completely.

But yeah, let's be a sarcastic douche and claim it's because Alliance players are just whiners, who don't recognize the supposed advantages they have.

[Paraka]

Yes, except while that might be an issue at the same time it wouldn't affect anyone because its not like people not picking Alliance races would mean Alliance players have less people to work with.


Its a different issue entirely. People would be bothered, but it wouldn't inconvenience them like the current situation is.

And the current situation is that Alliance doesn't have a solid draw. And the often cite "top X" which usually doesn't influence their personal experiences. Honestly, making a few competitive, and vastly different races for Alliance will probably solve a good portion of the problem, thing is Blizz never did this for years.

There will still be min-maxxing that'll isolate a lot of Alliance players because of their race if their goal is that "top X" they often cite.

[DazManianDevil]

So you were - maybe - right on one thing, to a degree which doesn't really matter when compared to the potential loss in recruitment pool (or BoE availability). But what about Shadowmeld in Mythic raiding? What incredible advantage it would have offered to Method so they could win that last WFR?

And these things actually affect people outside of the very top. When cross-server mythic raids aren't opened, because Alliance Hall of Fame takes five time as long to fill up, there's something wrong. On Uu'nat, they couldn't make it to 100. A brand new system that was supposed to give some minor encouragements for less played faction, failed completely.

But yeah, let's be a sarcastic douche and claim it's because Alliance players are just whiners, who don't recognize the supposed advantages they have.

Oh this is my first post in the thread, I was just adding to the other guy's point since he didn't elaborate for himself.

OT: For my 2 cents, at least in the US I mingle with guilds on multiple servers and it's my personal experience that Alliance CE guilds are vastly more toxic and elitist than any Horde CE guild I've ever seen.
The general feeling I get from those people I talk to is; if you want to raid anything over Heroic Slogfest and not be a raging edgelord, go Horde.
If you want a social, mom and pop's guild with good bants, settle for an Alliance guild that can't get AotC.

So I would agree Mythic is dying for Alliance, because it seems like the truly skilled players, who don't need to flex on other's have already gone to Horde.
Just check Trade chats between Horde Zul'jin, Horde Illidan against Alliance Dalaran and Alliance Moonguard. Night and day difference in player culture and population. (these are the servers I play on, not intended to compare top horde servers against lesser alliance ones :3 )

Racials don't mean anything when compared to the power gains of proper Azerite, neck essences and Corruptions, let alone playing halfway decently so that's 0 excuse for the current scene of PvE between the factions.
1,000dps between races sounds like a lot on paper, but that's on a sim of 98K+ dps, so the racials accounts for maybe a 1% increase. I lose 1% dps if I get frame drops and a GCD gets whiffed, it's a non-issue and needs to stop being touted as some "ermahgerd, Horde Racials so strooooong"
/end rant

[Relapses]

Oh this is my first post in the thread, I was just adding to the other guy's point since he didn't elaborate for himself.

OT: For my 2 cents, at least in the US I mingle with guilds on multiple servers and it's my personal experience that Alliance CE guilds are vastly more toxic and elitist than any Horde CE guild I've ever seen.
The general feeling I get from those people I talk to is; if you want to raid anything over Heroic Slogfest and not be a raging edgelord, go Horde.
If you want a social, mom and pop's guild with good bants, settle for an Alliance guild that can't get AotC.

So I would agree Mythic is dying for Alliance, because it seems like the truly skilled players, who don't need to flex on other's have already gone to Horde.
Just check Trade chats between Horde Zul'jin, Horde Illidan against Alliance Dalaran and Alliance Moonguard. Night and day difference in player culture and population. (these are the servers I play on, not intended to compare top horde servers against lesser alliance ones :3 )

Racials don't mean anything when compared to the power gains of proper Azerite, neck essences and Corruptions, let alone playing halfway decently so that's 0 excuse for the current scene of PvE between the factions.
1,000dps between races sounds like a lot on paper, but that's on a sim of 98K+ dps, so the racials accounts for maybe a 1% increase. I lose 1% dps if I get frame drops and a GCD gets whiffed, it's a non-issue and needs to stop being touted as some "ermahgerd, Horde Racials so strooooong"
/end rant

The issue isn't really from this expansion. It's from a few expansions prior when Horde racials (Cata/MoP) when racials were strong enough to warrant faction changing. Old Combust w/ Troll racial was stupid OP, for example. A lot of top guilds went Horde and satellite guilds followed. The problem isn't going to fix itself any time soon unless Blizzard actually does make Alliance racials better (which they won't do).

[DazManianDevil]

The issue isn't really from this expansion. It's from a few expansions prior when Horde racials (Cata/MoP) when racials were strong enough to warrant faction changing. Old Combust w/ Troll racial was stupid OP, for example. A lot of top guilds went Horde and satellite guilds followed. The problem isn't going to fix itself any time soon unless Blizzard actually does make Alliance racials better (which they won't do).

Ah yes, now I recall.
I'll admit I became super casual between, Firelands and BFA so my memory of the last decade game-wise is a bit lacking.
So it's similar to how every top PvPer went Human in Cata for the free trinket racial, but for Horde PvE? That's a real shame, and a systemic issue.

[Kehego]

In this post: Someone who didn't read the thread title and doesn't realize that shadowmeld is useless in raid, while humans have ... what exactly?

Shadowmeld is the best racial in M+ which draws people to play alliance.
Also human rep racial+ %secondary stats makes them top tier for every class they can play, which is all except druid/dh/sham.

(and emfh is just like a more useful wotf)

[Kithelle]

15 Alliance guilds in the top 100.

289 Alliance guilds in the top 1000.

None in the top 10 or killed n'zoth.

Yet no chance for faction merges as said in last blizzcon.

You do know there are so many Horde guilds because their racials are better....faction merge wont make any difference when the Horde races will still dominate.

[Kehego]

You do know there are so many Horde guilds because their racials are better....faction merge wont make any difference when the Horde races will still dominate.

But horde racials arent better.

[Kithelle]

But horde racials arent better.

Yes they are...let me guess, you play Horde and they're the red headed stepchild faction? They have the weakest everything and get the short end of the stick?

[MrLachyG]

why would it die out? sure, there's a definite lack of Alliance guilds in the Top 100. but that doesn't mean Alliance mythic raiding will die out.

edit: also like to point out that the two top Alliance guilds are both from Australia! woo!

second edit: that is according to wowprogress which for whatever reason doesn't track Chinese guilds. so my statement might not be 100% accurate because i cbf going to raider.io to check

[Marrilaife]

edit: also like to point out that the two top Alliance guilds are both from Australia! woo!

second edit: that is according to wowprogress which for whatever reason doesn't track Chinese guilds. so my statement might not be 100% accurate because i cbf going to raider.io to check

Woo! 2 regions have Alliance representation so the other might as well have none! And it's all cool because Australia is 180 degrees around and they don't have Horde but they have Alliance only! Woo!

Btw Horde hall of fame for Nyalotha has already 18 entries, and that counts China. Alliance has 0.

[Flurryfang]

Factions are a core part of WoW. You really need a BIG functionality problem for that to be changed.

Like, i get that it really allows for a lot of different sort of play, but it also removes the entire of idea of the factions being at odds with each other and you will never, and i mean never, be able to return that again when it is done.

[Kehego]

Yes they are...let me guess, you play Horde and they're the red headed stepchild faction? They have the weakest everything and get the short end of the stick?

Are you saying that the race that sims as top 3 for more than half the specs is weak?
Are you saying that the race that allows entire groups to skip in M+ is weak?

If you can name one horde racial in mythic+ that is better than shadowmeld, we have a discussion.
If you can name a race that is better than human with their combo of % increased secondary stats and increased rep in general content, we have a discussion.

Alliance players never want to have this discussion though, #foreverthevictim


Population is close to 50/50 according to blizzard
Population is close to 50/50 according to any census tool

not my fault alliance kids wanna roleplay and be shit at the content. Roleplay in goldshire and piss off

[dacoolist]

I feel bad for Alli.. they not only have a small fraction of the population for PVE, they normally get steam rolled in PVP as well .. It's just a bad place to be and I would feel really awful playing Alli in BFA

[DazManianDevil]

Yes they are...let me guess, you play Horde and they're the red headed stepchild faction? They have the weakest everything and get the short end of the stick?

They're actually quite balanced in a PvE setting.
Per Bloodmallet, Night elves outsim Bloodelves as DHs.
Furthermore, as posted earlier in the thread; from a damage perspective the top race down to the bottom is peppered back and forth with Alliance races and Horde races.
From a utility point of view, the only ones that come to mind as useful are Blood elves with an AoE Purge which sees some use, and Dwarves with (to my knowledge) the only racial in the game that can dispell bleeds, which also sees some use.
The Troll haste racial has gotten nerfed into the ground, Tauren have the same 2% crit damage/healing as dwarves etc.

Fire mages, arguably the best PvE spec in the game currently has 3 of its top 5 simming races, Alliance.
Outlaw rogues, 4 of the top 5 races are Alliance.
Bm Hunter, 3 of the 5 etc.
Source https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#m...ata_view=races

Horde used to have better racial abilities, yes.
Pretty sure MDI teams go Alliance on tournament realms for the superior racials, while playing Horde on live for the playerbase.

[Kehego]

They're actually quite balanced in a PvE setting.
Per Bloodmallet, Night elves outsim Bloodelves as DHs.
Furthermore, as posted earlier in the thread; from a damage perspective the top race down to the bottom is peppered back and forth with Alliance races and Horde races.
From a utility point of view, the only ones that come to mind as useful are Blood elves with an AoE Purge which sees some use, and Dwarves with (to my knowledge) the only racial in the game that can dispell bleeds, which also sees some use.
The Troll haste racial has gotten nerfed into the ground, Tauren have the same 2% crit damage/healing as dwarves etc.

Fire mages, arguably the best PvE spec in the game currently has 3 of its top 5 simming races, Alliance.
Outlaw rogues, 4 of the top 5 races are Alliance.
Bm Hunter, 3 of the 5 etc.
Source https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#m...ata_view=races

Horde used to have better racial abilities, yes.
Pretty sure MDI teams go Alliance on tournament realms for the superior racials, while playing Horde on live for the playerbase.

Yep, they go alliance for shadowmeld for every dungeon except KR for the most part, for which they go dwarf.
Only dungeon with a horde favor is SoB, where they (Usually) don't play it or suffer as horde with no meld skips.

[Eapoe]

At this rate the only way to up Alliance raid numbers is to make them have OP racials; which will just cause every Horde player to shift Alliance and then you have the same thing, just swapped.
Unfortunately, the damage is done and I don’t think there is any way to correct it minus Blizzard forcing players to swap, or potentially to approach their high end guilds like Method and everyone else to go Alliance to promote the faction.

[dacoolist]

At this rate the only way to up Alliance raid numbers is to make them have OP racials; which will just cause every Horde player to shift Alliance and then you have the same thing, just swapped.
Unfortunately, the damage is done and I don’t think there is any way to correct it.

Don't give any idea to Blizz because everyone will faction swap and it will be a cluster fuck - I like everyone being on Horde damnit