What exactly is the difference between Bfa-style MMO and Diablo 3-style ARPG?

[Natureseer]

Not quite a complete copy paste the diablo boxes are pure rng where the wow ones let you know what group of items/reward are in them.

Actually in their original iteration (Legion) they did not. They were the exact same as bounty rewards from D3. Not saying that this has anything to do with their devs, I have no knowledge of that. Just saying it is the same exact design regardless.

[Elias01]

.1%? Lol, hyperbole much, and yes, wow is an MMO, it's got everything needed to be an MMO.

MMO

"an online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously."

Thats not what mmorpg means. Classic is mmo. Moder game is not. Entire wow content can be cleared solo with 0 interaction with players. And entire high end content adopted mane elements from aprg.like mythic+, difficulty levels, infinite gear progression. Non of that belongs into true mmorpg game which is all about forcing players into groupplay in vast open, immersive world. No this modern instanced fast paced non immersive simulation.

[kaminaris]

Thats not what mmorpg means. Classic is mmo. Moder game is not. Entire wow content can be cleared solo with 0 interaction with players. And entire high end content adopted mane elements from aprg.like mythic+, difficulty levels, infinite gear progression. Non of that belongs into true mmorpg game which is all about forcing players into groupplay in vast open, immersive world. No this modern instanced fast paced non immersive simulation.

"Entire content can be cleared solo without interacting with other people except for content that cannot be cleared solo"

LOL

[Big Thanks]

Thats not what mmorpg means. Classic is mmo. Moder game is not. Entire wow content can be cleared solo with 0 interaction with players. And entire high end content adopted mane elements from aprg.like mythic+, difficulty levels, infinite gear progression. Non of that belongs into true mmorpg game which is all about forcing players into groupplay in vast open, immersive world. No this modern instanced fast paced non immersive simulation.

You are going to have a hard time using that argument here on MMO-C.
I mean the part modern wow is less of a MMO than before.

You better use the term...RPG...but still, people are going to hate you for it

[Nynax]

Number of ability's, base class function, gear acquisition, content structure, world intractability, pvp, ect ect ect.

Diablo and wow are only similar in superficial ways and a few minor things like world quest being quite a bit like bounty’s but still having differences.

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Not quite a complete copy paste the diablo boxes are pure rng where the wow ones let you know what group of items/reward are in them. I also don’t think diablo bounty’s have rewards in of them selfs but I’m not sure on that.

It's a copy/paste of the system. Having different kinds of things in the box doesn't change that. What matters is that the actions you are asked to take, and are rewarded for, follow the same system.

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What really is the difference between them playstyle wise these days to you?

The difference is that WoW is older, larger, and a persistent world. D3 is entirely instanced, there are no cities, no flight points, no choosing to travel by foot between Acts, and you only ever see 3 other players at a time. WoW lets you see other players running around, doing their thing, provides the opportunity for random interaction (just cause players choose not to do that anymore, doesn't mean the system isn't there.)

Yes, you can play WoW like a D3 lobby game, literally never leave the city...but you don't have to.

[MoanaLisa]

Combat in ARPG's is noticeably quicker. That's really the main difference. ARPG's are typically dungeon-oriented hack-and-slash (even with outdoor areas). MMO's tend to spread out the content over more types of games.

The rest is framing. Environments, reward systems, skill systems, all the rest are mostly interchangeable and have been since the start.

There are different roots as well. MMO's as they evolved today derive mostly from games like Ultima Online, the original Everquest and it's solo-oriented ancestors. ARPG's evolved out of rogue-like hack-and-slash dungeons like Nethack, Angband and dozens of others. Most of those old rogue-likes are still around and the genre is a thing unto itself with new games being released regularly. Personally, I think rogue-like games are some of the best games out there. Their ARPG counterparts tend to be much simpler although quite a bit prettier. I quite love ARPG's as well: Diablo I, II and III, Grim Dawn, Titanquest, Torchlight I and II, Path of Exile, there's a bunch of older titles. They are all good, some more dated than others but the best can still provide hours and hours of hack-and-slash gameplay.

[Doffen]

You are going to have a hard time using that argument here on MMO-C.
I mean the part modern wow is less of a MMO than before.

You better use the term...RPG...but still, people are going to hate you for it

Well using the argument that WoW is not a MMO now but it was in vanilla is simply wrong. It was an MMO then and it is now. Doesn't matter how much of the content you do solo. You can go into lfr solo, but you would still end up doing it with other people. The MMO part is simple. It's non arguable. It's like saying WotLK was more of a MMO than vanilla because it had more players playing. It does not make any sense, as little sense as claiming WoW is not a MMO now.

The poster should have used the rpg element. That's the only thing that has changed somewhat during the years. To say that WoW, the MMO of MMOs is not a MMO is both wrong and silly, and is a biased view on the matter.

[Zantera]

What's the difference between a banana and an apple? I mean they're both fruit and they both come from trees

[Big Thanks]

Well using the argument that WoW is not a MMO now but it was in vanilla is simply wrong. It was an MMO then and it is now. Doesn't matter how much of the content you do solo. You can go into lfr solo, but you would still end up doing it with other people. The MMO part is simple. It's non arguable. It's like saying WotLK was more of a MMO than vanilla because it had more players playing. It does not make any sense, as little sense as claiming WoW is not a MMO now.

The poster should have used the rpg element. That's the only thing that has changed somewhat during the years. To say that WoW, the MMO of MMOs is not a MMO is both wrong and silly, and is a biased view on the matter.

Maybe the MMO term can also be used...if we consider the act of actively "talking" to be part of the "MMO" experience.

Im doing Warson Gulch everyday and to win i need to actively talk in chat...for up to an entire hour.
Is really draining, but is an amazing experience ive never felt in current wow.

And i thought league of legends was a draining and tiresome experience in gaming...just try random warsong gulch.

[Flarelaine]

WoW is not mmo. It lacks almost evertthing what makes mmo mmo.

Is it not Massive, is it not Multiplayer or is it not Online in your opinion?

[Adamas102]

Thats not what mmorpg means. Classic is mmo. Moder game is not. Entire wow content can be cleared solo with 0 interaction with players. And entire high end content adopted mane elements from aprg.like mythic+, difficulty levels, infinite gear progression. Non of that belongs into true mmorpg game which is all about forcing players into groupplay in vast open, immersive world. No this modern instanced fast paced non immersive simulation.

WoW never forced group play in the open world. Some things might have been easier as a group, but it was never a necessity. Instanced content was the only place where group play was necessary, and that's as much true of vanilla WoW as it is of Classic and BFA. As for immersion, that goes out the window with how repetitive a game WoW has always been. First time in MC might have been pretty neat, but the 10th, 11th, 12th, etc times were just...ugh...

[Flarelaine]

Thats not what mmorpg means. Classic is mmo. Moder game is not. Entire wow content can be cleared solo with 0 interaction with players.

"Entire wow content" includes current raids.

[Elias01]

WoW never forced group play in the open world. Some things might have been easier as a group, but it was never a necessity. Instanced content was the only place where group play was necessary, and that's as much true of vanilla WoW as it is of Classic and BFA. As for immersion, that goes out the window with how repetitive a game WoW has always been. First time in MC might have been pretty neat, but the 10th, 11th, 12th, etc times were just...ugh...

If you wanted to finish elite q and even some normal quest were barely soloable. From top of my head Loch modan q to kill 3 trogg leaders. Its normal quest but gl killing them solo. Being 12th time in MC was and is still absolutly fine thanks to gear what is actualy rewarding experience to get that 1 epic what you wanted so bad. Also fact there will be new raid in future creates desire to keep doing mc to gear up for new raid.

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"Entire wow content" includes current raids.

Join LFR, clear raid, game done. Yes ven current raid content can be cleared by anyone what can press 1 button.

[Flarelaine]

Join LFR, clear raid, game done. Yes ven current raid content can be cleared by anyone what can press 1 button.

LFR is still not the entire content.

[Azerate]

There is a world of difference, but then again this isn't a real question but a badly camouflaged hate thread.

[Adamas102]

If you wanted to finish elite q and even some normal quest were barely soloable. From top of my head Loch modan q to kill 3 trogg leaders. Its normal quest but gl killing them solo. Being 12th time in MC was and is still absolutly fine thanks to gear what is actualy rewarding experience to get that 1 epic what you wanted so bad. Also fact there will be new raid in future creates desire to keep doing mc to gear up for new raid.

Again, not necessary since you could skip those quests or return when you had more gear. Additionally, everything after your first character just became that much easier. Part of the difficulty for most things was just that everything was so new. Mage was my second class that I lvled (after Paladin), so soloing all those elite quests actually became the goal.

I remember when I finally got my Mageblade after god knows how many fucking runs. No, by that point the gear didn't feel rewarding. Having the item drop and winning the roll didn't outweigh the colossal amount of bad luck I had for the runs leading up to it. The TRUE reward was not having to step foot into MC again on my mage. Meanwhile, my pally main still ran weekly MCs not for gear because by then it was all replaced with BWL and later gear, but we still ran it for the tiny chance of getting a legendary. It was a pretty braindead endeavor that most of us could AFK through for the most part. Just rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, replace gear, replace gear, rinse, repeat. Like I said, everything was new back then, but by tier 2.5 the writing was on the wall. Never ending gear treadmill.

[vitor210]

What timegating?

Come on, I know MMOC culture is based around trying to discredit anything people say to try and come out on top of the online discussion, but asking this question is pointless. It's like asking if the earth is indeed round, or asking if the sun is indeed yellow/orange

[Kokolums]

You ask what's the difference? In Diablo I can reach that goal solo, in WoW I need a group, this separates the MMO from the Arpg.

Is that the difference between an ARPG and an MMO? An ARPG is meant to be solo while an MMO is meant to be group play?

[Aeula]

Diablo 3 has better lore.

[Kokolums]

Combat in ARPG's is noticeably quicker. That's really the main difference. ARPG's are typically dungeon-oriented hack-and-slash (even with outdoor areas). MMO's tend to spread out the content over more types of games.

The rest is framing. Environments, reward systems, skill systems, all the rest are mostly interchangeable and have been since the start.

There are different roots as well. MMO's as they evolved today derive mostly from games like Ultima Online, the original Everquest and it's solo-oriented ancestors. ARPG's evolved out of rogue-like hack-and-slash dungeons like Nethack, Angband and dozens of others. Most of those old rogue-likes are still around and the genre is a thing unto itself with new games being released regularly. Personally, I think rogue-like games are some of the best games out there. Their ARPG counterparts tend to be much simpler although quite a bit prettier. I quite love ARPG's as well: Diablo I, II and III, Grim Dawn, Titanquest, Torchlight I and II, Path of Exile, there's a bunch of older titles. They are all good, some more dated than others but the best can still provide hours and hours of hack-and-slash gameplay.

Here is how I view the difference between an ARPG and an MMO.

1. An ARPG is fast-paced with a focus on macro. Your screen is packed with enemies that kill you in a few hits or even one shot you. You can one shot most of them or kill them in a few hits. Your available skills are naturally smaller because there's no time to go through a rotation or priority system. Its about macro like herding packs of enemies to AoE them all down fast, or funneling them thru a choke, or pincering them between two groups of allies. Your groups (with other players) might naturally be smaller as well. There are jump scares, you panic half the time and can often be absolutely surrounded by chaos. You need to have everything down to muscle memory and incredible dexerity.

2. An MMO is slow-paced with a focus on micro. You fight ONE mob (sometimes 2 or 3 mobs) and it has a ton of skills, spells and multiple phases in the encounter. You have a WIDE variety of specialized skills and spells and go thru complex rotations and priority systems for minutes to kill the mob. Its a thinking man's game. Groups are massive and social community is a huge factor. You have complex skill trees and overarching systems and need to sim your toon for optimal performance.

It reflects the difference between Starcraft and Warcraft. Starcraft was an RTS that was fast-paced with a focus on macro. You herd a bunch of zerg into your trap. Warcraft 3 was very slow paced with a focus on huge health pools and microing a larger set of abilities. You fight with your hero unit and level it up and get its ultimate and go from there.