Are the infinite power grind here to stay?

[Jester Joe]

Which is 100% ok. RNG can be fun if done right, and this is done right.

*Insert Michael scott "Dear god no" gif here*

19 different corruptions.
16 have 3 different levels of strength.

That's already 48 different levels at which you can get corruptions. add into that the ones that have only one set level, or two, brings that number up to 52.

So when you want a single corruption you're aiming for, regardless of corruption level? that's already a 1 in 19 chance of getting the right one when you happen to get a corruption proc, roughly a 5% chance.

Now add into that wanting it at the right amount of corruption. The right strength. A 1 in 52 chance. Or... a 1% chance.

That's "RNG done right", for gear?

To tack on, I might have goofed the math in my rush to respond admittedly, but I'm sure someone will double check it. Someone's always quick to double check on the internet.

[tru]

I'm just comparing it it past times that everyone finds "so great" we used to always have passive dmg being top, up til cata or whenever it was they nerfed the fuck out of white dmg.

It's not really a big deal. I honestly find corruption to be the most fun system for gear they've implemented and hope we get something VERY similar in SL.

Don't worry they seem to cater to people like you.

The system is bad I can see the same shit as always first tier normal item drops with best proc only replaced if you can get the mythic version. Meanwhile mythic raider has item 20+ ilvs higher than you but thanks to the games RNG not his skill he does less damage that you.

It needs to go back to static gearing and if they want to do wild shit put it in talents or trinkets/weapons.

Kill a boss it has one loot table for that difficulty no xyz proc 9000 that messes with the gear.

[StrawberryZebra]

The power is theoretically infinite but if it's capped per week then unlike AP you will not be able to no-life it. This addresses one of the main criticisms of AP-like systems.

While this may be a solution to people no lifing, it's not without it's own share of problems.

It doubles down on what I consider to be the biggest issue with these systems - Those who don't play consistently fall behind the power curve. While there are catch up systems in place, they're less effective the closer you are to the cap. It's particularly evident when new milestones are unlocked, such as Azerite Traits and Essence slots this expansion, that players without access to them are behind the power curve.

That feels overly punishing to returning players, players who have taken a break for one reason or another and ultimately just feels highly disrespectful to your players time.

There being a weekly cap really does concern me, it opens up the possiability that players may end up behind. Permenantly. While it may prevent the most hardcore and dedicated from spending every waking hour grinding, it disproportionately affects those who routenely fall short of the cap for whatever reason. This is power you're not getting anywhere else, so it's not as if you can make up that power difference with Raid drops or M+.

[Onikaroshi]

*Insert Michael scott "Dear god no" gif here*

19 different corruptions.
16 have 3 different levels of strength.

That's already 48 different levels at which you can get corruptions. add into that the ones that have only one set level, or two, brings that number up to 52.

So when you want a single corruption you're aiming for, regardless of corruption level? that's already a 1 in 19 chance of getting the right one when you happen to get a corruption proc, roughly a 5% chance.

Now add into that wanting it at the right amount of corruption. The right strength. A 1 in 52 chance. Or... a 1% chance.

That's "RNG done right", for gear?

To tack on, I might have goofed the math in my rush to respond admittedly, but I'm sure someone will double check it. Someone's always quick to double check on the internet.

Don't really care about the numbers, care about the fun value, and getting powerful pieces is fun. WF/TF fucked with things like trading, this doesn't. That's the main reason I hated WF/TF, without ML it's just a pain in the ass.

[Jester Joe]

Don't really care about the numbers, care about the fun value, and getting powerful pieces is fun. WF/TF fucked with things like trading, this doesn't. That's the main reason I hated WF/TF, without ML it's just a pain in the ass.

WF/TF barely screwed with trading anymore than the issue that still exists with trading, stuff like having a 475 main hand off hand combo, but you can't trade the 460 staff you got because you don't have any staff weapons.

That isn't an issue with the WF/TF system though. And now corruption just has its own issues, like-

Raider 1 has item level 460 overall, and 470 pants. But 460 pants with a strong corruption for them just dropped.

Now they won't want to give it to Raider 2, who's still stuck with 445 pants, because the corruption effect is too strong.

[Onikaroshi]

WF/TF barely screwed with trading anymore than the issue that still exists with trading, stuff like having a 475 main hand off hand combo, but you can't trade the 460 staff you got because you don't have any staff weapons.

That isn't an issue with the WF/TF system though. And now corruption just has its own issues, like-

Raider 1 has item level 460 overall, and 470 pants. But 460 pants with a strong corruption for them just dropped.

Now they won't want to give it to Raider 2, who's still stuck with 445 pants, because the corruption effect is too strong.

I can't tell you how many times I got the same piece but only 5 ilvls higher and couldn't trade it.... it was a stupid system. 5 ilvls is barely and upgrade.

Now getting a good corruption is a big upgrade, so that's not even a question.

ilvl being king is dumb anyway. ilvl shouldn't even be shown, only the item and what it does should matter. A good item lasting for tiers is great.

[Softbottom]

They said it wil work liek past valor/conquest which was capped out how much you could earn each week, meaning not infinite.

Oh that's a lot better then. Will work similarly to the current Conquest bar then hopefully.

[Advent]

A good item lasting for tiers is great.

Not if it means you're stuck having to try and do year-old content that nobody wants to help you with in order to get it. Just in case nobody remembers Dragonspine Trophy, because I sure do.

[rrayy]

As long as people pay for it, they have no reason to stop.

Yo guys, you have 2 options, play this trash for the next 6-8-10 years, or quit now for 2 years to send them the message they need to hear.

Stop supporting bad design, if you are subbed, you are supporting bad design no matter what you think or what you say on the forums.

Stop paying for shit.

That is a new level of projection of your OPINION. YOu thinking it is bad design doesn't mwean everyone thinks it is bad design. ANd saying 'if you are subbed, you are supporting bad design no matter what you think or what you say on the forums" is major elitism and is nothing more than 'I am right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong". Not how things work.

[FelPlague]

Oh that's a lot better then. Will work similarly to the current Conquest bar then hopefully.

Thats sorta the plan, however they did say you will be able to get more after the cap, but it wont feel infinite, likely you will get so little it wont matter, but atleast it ownt be wasted. or they will have it only work for the cosmetic stuff.

sorta like how right now with the coalessing visions, you do your dailies and your weekly stuff and your done, but you caaan collect chests, and kill rares, and do the events, but those give so little its not a requirment, but you do get extra for doing them.

[Onikaroshi]

Not if it means you're stuck having to try and do year-old content that nobody wants to help you with in order to get it. Just in case nobody remembers Dragonspine Trophy, because I sure do.

That's why you put multiple items in a raid, and legendaries, make all raids viable throughout the expansion.

[Drusin]

How is that really any different than it's been for many years.



Top classic rogue log, passive DPS is over 50%. Sure, it was less prevalent after cata for a bit, but for a long time passive DPS was really high.

Now why would you go all the way to classic for a log?



WarcraftLogs goes all the way back to MoP. I checked final boss for each xpac and only in MoP do you see passive damage in the lead, but it's nothing like either classic or BFA infinite stars

[Onikaroshi]

Now why would you go all the way to classic for a log?



WarcraftLogs goes all the way back to MoP

Because mop was post auto-attack nerf

[SoulSoBreezy]

They never said titanforging is not going to be in shadowlands.
It is not in 8.3, there we have the way worse corruption system - ok. But they never said its not coming back in Shadowlands.

"So, those are things we’re discussing very actively as a team, with a lot more information to share on itemization and rewards in Shadowlands — but I can say it won’t be Warforging and Titanforging, and it won’t be Corruption." - Jan 2020 https://www.millenium.us.org/guide/10782.html

[Accendor]

"So, those are things we’re discussing very actively as a team, with a lot more information to share on itemization and rewards in Shadowlands — but I can say it won’t be Warforging and Titanforging, and it won’t be Corruption." - Jan 2020 https://www.millenium.us.org/guide/10782.html

Thank you very much for updating me. I'll try to keep in touch with everything but it seems that I have missed that.

[lockybalboa]

Yeah Ion needs those sweet MAUs for his bonuses

[Actaeix]

That's called a strawman when no one is claiming auto attack damage was great?

The last thread I saw talking about auto attacks was a thread discussing how to get rid of it to replace it with something more fluid/fun.

Also mind you, I didn't even get to touch upon how RNG stuff like IS is compared to auto attack, past even just obtaining.

A 100 parse could just be something as stupid as being lucky that you procced IS several times in the first few moments of the pull.

100 parses are almost always decided by RNG regardless of corruption, skill is a factor sure but you need a lot of good RNG if you want to 100 parse.

[Gaidax]

RNG deciding parses is sure cancer. Of course there was always RNG, but in 8.3 they brought it to the whole next level and I am not a fan.

[TheVaryag]

It just seems to be getting worse and worse as time goes on and with blizzard weirdly admitting passively that they are not good for the competitive side of the game ( them disabling them in the pvp tournament speaks volumes)

I have to ask... is this just the new norm? Is wow doomed to have wacky random items obtained from excessive grinding from now on?

no, they specificly said that wont be a thing in shadowlands, so nah its not here to stay.

also titanforging and corruption are not going to be in shadowlands, so again no.

Blizzard claim alot of things, like no more titanforging rng and yet they give us Corruption which is 3x times worse than titanforging and with more RNG, they also promised no wow tokens for classic, class fantasy in Legion which I would strongly disagree with as they realized they menth Spec Fantasy, and their supposed re-re-refocusing on class fantasy in Shadowlands Is just a promise, once I see it I'll believe It and It doesn't take them giving us BACK the abilities they TOOK AWAY from us to fix that.

The fact that they have to return abilities to us in the first place tells me they've no bloody clue how classes should look like baseline. In my opinion they should give us all our baseline abilities back, some talents In the 1-120 talent rows made baseline and reworked cause the talent system we have is bad. And then go from there and make NEW talents and abilities ontop of the ones already existing.

I know people like bringing this up but Final Fantasy 14 knows It's classes, I've started playing It months and months ago pretty casually, I got a 20 pugilist, 26 marauder and 23 rogue (And 22 fisher + 19 cook as a sidenote) and all 3 of those classes feel fun, when you do the quests for the classes It feels like the game KNOWS what a Monk is, what a marauder is, what a Rogue Is. And thats only half the class, all of those transform Into jobs which are like advanced classes, you eventually turn into a monk, warrior and ninja respectively but even being below lvl 30 on each of those classes feels fun and looking ahead at future abilities makes It obvious how well you can combo and function, It feels there's been structire and real thought given to these classes.

And then there's WoW classes, where you slash, slash slash, RNG proc super slash, slash, slash, RNG proc proc Aoe, slash, slash, RNG proc super slash... It feels bland, I will never be able to look at WoW classes In a good way compared to FF14 because like It or not, they are direct competitors and FF14 Is beating WoW out of the water right now.

With Artifact grinding, I hope they won't do that, they promised none of that shiz in shadowlands but that to me sounds like "We'll just put It elsewhere" we seem to tell them to fudge off with an idea and they keep It around In a lesser fashion, like the Mission Tables literally nobody likes from Garrisons that we've had for the past two expansions as a mini feature from WoD.

So until Shadowlands proves to be what Blizzard promise I don't trust anything they say, they don't deserve our trust until we see It happen In beta.

[Gaidax]

I am certain that some form of weekly grind for long term goal will be a thing. Sure it may not be AP, but it can be (and likely is) materials for your Domination gear, this was already heavily hinted/outright told it will be.

What they did say, if you paid attention, is rather that we will have power grind, it's just they will try to make it front-loaded each week, which I imagine will be like Uldum/Vale invasion - where you get the biggest pay out for pushing that bar to 100% and then you can choose to add a bit more by returning there daily once weekly/tri-daily is done.

And yes, you will have this kind of system ingame until the end times now, simply because it worked out well. It did what it was supposed to do - give meaningful character progression to outdoor activities.