https://www.windowscentral.com/world...ry-shadowlands
Now hopefully I can stop reading headcanon like "Alliance started the war in Stormheim".To demonstrate that there is a cycle, we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took. A warchief promoted under questionable circumstances. A brutal act of aggression that instigated conflict. Distrust among the inner circle that led to an uprising. These parallels were intentional.
Yep. People liked the redemption stories of Illidan and Kerrigan because they were given redeeming qualities, while people hated the redemption story of Grommash, because he was not given any redeeming character trait whatsoever and we just sort of had to accept he was good now. Sylvanas will be Grommash 2.0, not Kerrigan/Illidan 2.0 if they want to redeem her.
But again, it's so unlikely that she'll be redeemed, and plus I'm sure they've learned from the massive backlash they got after they redeemed Grommash.
Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-04-03 at 08:53 AM.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
lol? i was the one that gave the plague sample to the dwarf and didnt give a fuck, i was the one that assassinated the blood stone fugitives or even the scarlet crusader's captives in wrath. still didnt giving a single fuck. or the one that with belmont conquered gilneas, plagued the farm north andorhal and smashed human heads in hillsbrad. i could be full forsaken until bfa, where the spread of plague in the lordaeron battelfied was basically the last time i could play normally.
did you ever played a forsaken quest?
It is a regular practice of people here to deny or dismiss written facts they dislike. No matter if those facts come from Blizzard, Golden or whoever. I would say this thread is the perfect example for that. So this sadly won't change a thing.
Pretty much this yes. Even when Kerrigan began slaughtering humans again (after her second transformation) she showed regret and forbade Abathur to experiment on humans and she also spared some civilians and wounded. She was a monster, but there was still some good left in her that made her want redemption and that made the redemption she got work.
Sylvanas has never expressed so much as discomfort at the thought of murdering others and she takes great pleasure in boasting with her crimes (towards Genn for one), she routinely experimented on humans to strengthen her bioweapon and damns others to her horrible fate. She actively squandered her chance at redemption after Edge of Night and took all measures to be even worse then Arthas while hiding in the shadows of the Horde like the coward she is. There is no act she could commit now, that would make her redemption believable or deserved.
She has decided to be the uncaring villain and I could not care less about her goals. She will die for all the crimes she commited, no matter what the reasons for them will turn out to be.
Indeed. Kerrigan in HoTs showed a lot of redeeming qualities, such as when she undermined her own invasion to avoid civilian casualties or when she decided to spare the Terran soldiers fleeing Char.
Sylvanas instead doesn't give a shit about murdering people. And when you think about it, she never will. Because her plan relies entirely on killing people, especially civilians. That's why they are clearly not setting her up as Kerrigan 2.0.
At best she'll realize upon dying that she became just as evil as Arthas, and beg for forgiveness with her last breath, but that's about it.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
I think that everyone of us has his own idea of how the story should go and how the chars should be developed.
Pleasing everyone is simply impossible.
You do realize there can be more than one causes of war, right? All the way back to Vanilla we had multiple concurrent fronts of Alliance-Horde conflict instigated by various parties. Especially since Danuser's words are "instigated conflict" which is a general statement. He didn't say that instigated any and all Alliance hostilities or even the war. You're putting words in his mouth. And as for Stormheim, Before the Storm makes it blatantly clear that the factions were in open conflict already at that time as they needed a ceasefire to make the Gathering happen. Even though it took place on neutral ground. And for a ceasefire to exist there must also exist a fire that has to be ceased in the first place. The word basically holds your hand there and yet that part of the book somehow still doesn't register with Alliance posters on this site. A very mysterious mystery.
Ah, yes. Because the redemption of Illidan and especially Kerrigan were so very well received.
You mean the Golden that wrote Before the Storms, including the part about Horde and Alliance already being in open conflict? The ones to deny to dismiss written facts one dislikes here is you. And Varodoc.
Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)
And in the end at best your character felt betrayed cause your Queen didn't care about you. She wanted to kill all of Azeroth so she could gain more power and your character now hates her for it and wants along with the whole Horde to track her and end her. All these quests you did for her was for her to end all of Azeroth.
she didnt care about me to the point that she gave me an hearthstone to tell me
so exactly why i should be feel betrayed (as a forsaken/dk)? nathanos even warned me every single time that the missions would be rough as fuck for all bfa. and being in a suicide mission is something that i ever did before multiple times. damn, all wod is based on the initial suicide mission throught the portal.Ah champion, I wasn't certain you made it out of Orgrimmar. If the traitors know of your service to me, they'd have put you in irons...or worse. Saurfang's ill-considered challenge may have ended the war prematurely, but it doesn't matter now. Countless souls have been fed to the hungering darkness. Though I cared nothing for the living, I did pity the Forsaken. For the great injustice that made them what they are. I understand the cruelty of fate better than anyone.
But despite all I taught them, they stubbornly clung to hope. To life. They will learn the truth, along with all the rest.
My bargain with Azshara will yet bear fruit. The armies of Azeroth will fight her master, and he will line their streets with corpses. In the end, he too will serve Death.
Enough reflection. There are preparations to be made. Nothing lasts. When next you see me, you will understand.
im not saying that you wont be right and i wont have to work with the traitors like nothing had happened. but for now at best this isnt hinted other than a generic and assumed "we are telling how you will should feel" without any organic storytelling.
damn as a forsaken player i never had any problem with the idea of murdering all azeroth if necessary, the plague that i personally helped to develop was made in fact to annihilate any enemy would cross the forsaken's path in first place. even any forsaken npc in game (other than voss) never have these problems in first place.
Last edited by Aucald; 2020-04-03 at 07:14 PM. Reason: Received Infraction
That is the problem though. You can't play the villain. It's a fantasy game made for Good to defeat Evil in the end. Your character will be forced to go to the Shadowlands, do the Questline and possibly kill Sylvannas in the end on the questline or in a raid as a Boss. Warhammer on the other hand is perfect for that.
Oh, you mean THIS Warhammer?
Also, you keep saying this Warhammer thing, it's like you are trolling, i swear "Good kills Bad, you shoud feel this and that, btw play Warhammer"
And you are setteling for the laziest type of story developement and that is alarming. Nothing we can do now, i guess, damage is already done. As with many other needlesly mangled pieces of lore to serve dubious gameplay functions. But we should raise concerns about lore handling, i think it's about time.
Also, killing Sylvanas, for me it's like kiling Thrall, Malfuion, Tyrande or other WC3 heroes. Voljin and Cairne were a waste.
Last edited by Necromind; 2020-04-04 at 01:40 AM.
Most of this conversation misses the point. Yes, Sylvanas has always been evil but that's not the issue. She was never a Saturday morning cartoon villain who wants to "kill hope", or even a "schemes within schemes" villain, just a very ruthless person who stayed in the shadows.
The plot device that "the more people die the more power she gets!" is a very odd and artificial way of trying to change her motivations. It's also redundant because she already has a reason to kill people, namely so that she can raise them as Forsaken.
Point is, it doesn't matter whether she was always evil -- the clumsy and terrible writing she got in BFA would have ruined any character (and did ruin several others).
Define "morning cartoon villains", because smiling when someone is melting in front of you or saying stuff like "Let the gilneans enjoy their small victory, not even their bones will remain by tomorrow" is very morning cartoon villain.
So like killing Arthas, Deathwing, Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, and any other WC3 villain?
Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-04-04 at 09:41 AM.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
On the contrary friend. I am serious. Warhammer Online who now has been revived has the story for someone who likes to play Super Good Faction vs Evil Faction cause both factions there are fanatical to the bone. Even the Good Order Faction has the Motto Death to the Heretic, the Mutant, the Unclean. You purge whole families of villains without thinking if they have good motives behind. Also yes I agree that we should raise Lore Concerns. Lore Concerns where the whole lore was butchered in order for two Warchiefs to even stand a chance to do what they did. Lore that made the Alliance lawful stupid and the Neutral Factions neutral stupid. I don't see why Sylvannas has to escape penalties when other Heroes and Villains couldn't and dissapeared from the face of the story.