We could use an expansion without any overarching theme/villain

[Michael Jackson]

I think one of the reasons pre-BC was so immersive and memorable (not that I still play that shit again, 3 characters was enough) is because there was no overarching theme being shoved down your throat at every corner.

- We're fighting the burning legion and this quest is telling you that you're fighting the burning legion which you need to fight...burning legion!
- We're fighting the scourge and this quest is telling you that you're fighting the scourge which you need to fight...scourge!
- We're fighting the old gods and this quest is telling you that you're fighting the old gods which you need to fight...old gods!

It was more like "hey dipshit, i'm a bigger dipshit than you and i'm in trouble, can u help plz?" with varied storylines from zone to zone, sometimes spilling over into other zones, but not that often.

And when you did stumble on a bigger quest like saving Bolvar and going to fight Onyxia, it came out of nowhere and you had no idea what to expect at the end of it. You'd be like "OH, that's why I sometimes see fucking dragons in the throne room, it's THIS quest! Omg I'm doing THAT THING!".

I think it would be a nice change of pace for everyone's big bad fatigue to just be thrown into a sandbox of stories and enjoy adventuring again.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

You mean....Mists of Pandaria?

[Sondrelk]

An approach like this could in tehroy work, though it would require both making a world revamp to not be forced to adhere to any single localized problem, and also possibly even forgoing the traditional patch structure, seeing as the final boss of an expansion should usually be somewhat tied to what the expansion is about. Even Blassic technically has this, seeing as the final boss is Kel'thuzad, and WoW was riding the coattails of WC3 nostalgia.

If what you mean is more specifically an extremely well hidden villain, then i could see it. As in a villain that only becoems obvious by the end of the second or third raid.

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You mean....Mists of Pandaria?

Even Mists had an overarching "villain". The expansion was about faction war, and in the end we defeated Garrosh who was at that point the driving motivation for the faction war.

[A Chozo]

pre-BC wasn't immersive nor memorable because of the lack of overarching theme. It had those qualities because it was the first WoW experience available and the player character didn't slay kings and gods yet. Being a new game also helped - the community takes a while to start the toxicity.

[Adam Jensen]

An approach like this could in tehroy work, though it would require both making a world revamp to not be forced to adhere to any single localized problem, and also possibly even forgoing the traditional patch structure, seeing as the final boss of an expansion should usually be somewhat tied to what the expansion is about. Even Blassic technically has this, seeing as the final boss is Kel'thuzad, and WoW was riding the coattails of WC3 nostalgia.

If what you mean is more specifically an extremely well hidden villain, then i could see it. As in a villain that only becoems obvious by the end of the second or third raid.

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Even Mists had an overarching "villain". The expansion was about faction war, and in the end we defeated Garrosh who was at that point the driving motivation for the faction war.

They were going for that with N'zoth.

I mean, they fell flat on their face in the effort, but they were going for it lol.

[Sondrelk]

They were going for that with N'zoth.

I mean, they fell flat on their face in the effort, but they were going for it lol.

Not really, they had a distinct problem that needed solving by the end of the final raid, the problem is jsut that Blizzard forgot how a story is supposed to work and swapped out the obvious final boss for a different one from a different story. Or rather, switched over without explaining how fighting N'zoth would mean we had solved teh faction war issue presented as the driving plot at the beginning.

[jzhbee]

I think one of the reasons pre-BC was so immersive and memorable (not that I still play that shit again, 3 characters was enough) is because there was no overarching theme being shoved down your throat at every corner.

- We're fighting the burning legion and this quest is telling you that you're fighting the burning legion which you need to fight...burning legion!
- We're fighting the scourge and this quest is telling you that you're fighting the scourge which you need to fight...scourge!
- We're fighting the old gods and this quest is telling you that you're fighting the old gods which you need to fight...old gods!

It was more like "hey dipshit, i'm a bigger dipshit than you and i'm in trouble, can u help plz?" with varied storylines from zone to zone, sometimes spilling over into other zones, but not that often.

And when you did stumble on a bigger quest like saving Bolvar and going to fight Onyxia, it came out of nowhere and you had no idea what to expect at the end of it. You'd be like "OH, that's why I sometimes see fucking dragons in the throne room, it's THIS quest! Omg I'm doing THAT THING!".

I think it would be a nice change of pace for everyone's big bad fatigue to just be thrown into a sandbox of stories and enjoy adventuring again.

Unfortunately, after so much build up, the PC is not just an "adventurer". They are heroes, commanders, champions of Azeroth. Short of a WoW2, they cannot erase that.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I mean it isn't rocket science what they do.

It is "Big bad has arrived! We fight big bad together! Peace works! We are stronger together! Big bad dies"

Then

It is "Big bad died! Peace was great! Lets go to war! Look stupid fighting let another big bad show up! Lets fight the big bad together!"

I mean that is it.

[Flurryfang]

I think one of the reasons pre-BC was so immersive and memorable (not that I still play that shit again, 3 characters was enough) is because there was no overarching theme being shoved down your throat at every corner.

- We're fighting the burning legion and this quest is telling you that you're fighting the burning legion which you need to fight...burning legion!
- We're fighting the scourge and this quest is telling you that you're fighting the scourge which you need to fight...scourge!
- We're fighting the old gods and this quest is telling you that you're fighting the old gods which you need to fight...old gods!

It was more like "hey dipshit, i'm a bigger dipshit than you and i'm in trouble, can u help plz?" with varied storylines from zone to zone, sometimes spilling over into other zones, but not that often.

And when you did stumble on a bigger quest like saving Bolvar and going to fight Onyxia, it came out of nowhere and you had no idea what to expect at the end of it. You'd be like "OH, that's why I sometimes see fucking dragons in the throne room, it's THIS quest! Omg I'm doing THAT THING!".

I think it would be a nice change of pace for everyone's big bad fatigue to just be thrown into a sandbox of stories and enjoy adventuring again.

Like MoP or BFA? Cause that went really well.....

We more need an expansion, where the main villian is clear and active from the start, so that we can have an actual build-up instead of this "suddenly N'zoth appears!" and then dies.

[Thrif]

Not really, they had a distinct problem that needed solving by the end of the final raid, the problem is jsut that Blizzard forgot how a story is supposed to work and swapped out the obvious final boss for a different one from a different story. Or rather, switched over without explaining how fighting N'zoth would mean we had solved teh faction war issue presented as the driving plot at the beginning.

There never was any faction war issues, it was Sylvanas doing things for the Jailer. She was the sole instigator and driving force behind it, and after the showed her hand and escaped after her duel with Saurfang there was nothing left of the war.

[Dapower]

I would resub for an expansion like this, with lots of mystery in lore, unmined loots and puzzles, wait, no I wont cause you know, life.

[Sondrelk]

There never was any faction war issues, it was Sylvanas doing things for the Jailer. She was the sole instigator and driving force behind it, and after the showed her hand and escaped after her duel with Saurfang there was nothing left of the war.

That just shows how pointless N'zoth really is as a final boss.

We could have fought Sylvanas at the end, ending the faction war and leading into a death themed expansion.
We could have had Sylvanas reveal herself as a N'zoth cultist before having the twist at the end that she was actually doing it for death.
We could have had any number of bosses, what we got is pretty low on the bottom of suitable end bosses. Blizzard didnt even give an attempt to explain how faction war is in any way related to N'zoth beyond the throwaway line of being stronger together, which could be applied to literally any WoW villain in the game.

[Swnem]

Like MoP or BFA? Cause that went really well.....

We more need an expansion, where the main villian is clear and active from the start, so that we can have an actual build-up instead of this "suddenly N'zoth appears!" and then dies.

Agree with this.

You actually almost made a suitable pokemon reference.

It's "A wild N'zoth suddenly appears!".

Yeah, i prefer they give the villain proper build up and make it justice. Like a "wild azshara appears!" that couldve spearheaded a whole expansion and instead is patch fodder. Wasteful! Glad she at least survived, but that was a whole expansion wasted right there. Cant do that now.

We need the boring faction war to end as well. It's repetitive and will never lead anywhere. But it's warcraft not peacecraft bs... yeah we wage war with the baddies. The step where we fight each other and unite every single time is tired. Lets fight smart for once. Lets use those resources in content for all players than 60-40% of them.

[guisadop]

Agree with this.

You actually almost made a suitable pokemon reference.

It's "A wild N'zoth suddenly appears!".

Yeah, i prefer they give the villain proper build up and make it justice. Like a "wild azshara appears!" that couldve spearheaded a whole expansion and instead is patch fodder. Wasteful! Glad she at least survived, but that was a whole expansion wasted right there. Cant do that now.

We need the boring faction war to end as well. It's repetitive and will never lead anywhere. But it's warcraft not peacecraft bs... yeah we wage war with the baddies. The step where we fight each other and unite every single time is tired. Lets fight smart for once. Lets use those resources in content for all players than 60-40% of them.

I don't think the faction war is boring, it's just that they're too afraid of giving to/taking from one or another faction too much because of player backlash and THAT makes it boring. As it is now we know FOR A FACT that nothing is going to change in the faction landscape because everything needs to be "balanced". We'll never see the Alliance occupying Lordaeron as a functional city, never going to see the horde occupying alliance lands etc outside of instanced content.

If W3 story was told in WoW the undead plague wouldn't have happened (can't have the alliance lose an important capital city without the horde losing one, too!)

[shise]

I think expansions are based on a thread, which will always be someone or a group, entity.
If not for this thread, the expansion would not happen.

I agree tho, that it would be refreshing that we would start an expansion out of pure exploration, not knowing what we will really find in the end, let patches develop it, instead of pretty much knowing what the end awaits for us.

[Varodoc]

I think expansions are based on a thread, which will always be someone or a group, entity.
If not for this thread, the expansion would not happen.

I agree tho, that it would be refreshing that we would start an expansion out of pure exploration, not knowing what we will really find in the end, let patches develop it, instead of pretty much knowing what the end awaits for us.

So MoP? Even the trailer presented it as a new adventure and a new beginning. Like Classic, it had multiple narrative threads, such as the faction war started by Garrosh, the reawakening of the Sha, the mantid and yaungol invasions, or the mogu. Patch 5.2 was considered to be the best MoP offered and it was about a relatively secondary villain, Lei Shen. We also didn't know what the end of MoP had in store for us. We know after 5.2 that Garrosh would be the end boss, but we didn't know exactly what was the deal with Y'Shaarj and how he'd factor into the story.

[Tomana]

I agree completely. That was one of the redeeming qualities of vanilla/classic.
However, it should ideally be coupled with more sandbox mechanics and overhauls of some existing mechanics like crafting, so Blizzard will never do it

[Sondrelk]

So MoP? Even the trailer presented it as a new adventure and a new beginning. Like Classic, it had multiple narrative threads, such as the faction war started by Garrosh, the reawakening of the Sha, the mantid and yaungol invasions, or the mogu. Patch 5.2 was considered to be the best MoP offered and it was about a relatively secondary villain, Lei Shen. We also didn't know what the end of MoP had in store for us. We know after 5.2 that Garrosh would be the end boss, but we didn't know exactly what was the deal with Y'Shaarj and how he'd factor into the story.

MoP still started with faction war. Pre-patch was all about the Horde attacking Theramore and the expansion begins with going to Pandaria because the other faction wants it. What MoP did very well though was hiding that aspect of the story quite well for the initial part of the story.

If we want a story entirely without knowing what it is about to begin with i would again have to go with a World Revamp, and then at the end of the second raid actually start giving players hints about the actual villain at the end. The expansion would not function proeprly otherwise.

[Cosmic Janitor]

WoW's problem isn't that the stories are coherent or have an overarching theme/villain (seriously?!), it's that the writing and directing is on the equivalent level of the text on the backside of an atari game. There is so much wrong with how the game presents the story it isn't even funny and all you need to do is look at the other examples in the genre to see how it is supposed to be done.

[Zuben]

World of Warcraft: Beaches of Tel'Abim.