Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[starlord]

I'm still waiting for alternatives since apparently the slogan is the only problem.

Its been 4 months.

If a 'poorly thought of slogan' is all it takes to deter you from a movement you weren't on board in the first place.

people have given lots of alternatives in this thread already.
you don't actually want to get anything done, just throw dirt from the sidelines for entertainment.

[cubby]

Except the argument around here hasn't been, "well we can still follow through we just need to call it something else". It's been "we need to go full stop because voter education isn't a thing."to mask beliefs that police do not need to be defunded.

Except you and others are still defending the bad name/slogan. I haven't seen you or others acknowledging that it was a terrible choice for the movement. However, to be clear, I believe the movement needs to continue full throttle - it's one of the best social policy choices this country could make.

[Fugus]

It must be nice to be a Republican right now. All they need to do throw a fit about the name of a policy to get party Democrats to do a 180.

No, this more like the HR guys trying to claim they know more about marketing than the marketing department who knows that the message matters in all things if you actually want support for it among all but the most devout and "In the Know" people.

[Draco-Onis]

I wasn't talking about the blue wave or any of that. I agree Biden is a flawed candidate and was largely the best in the room at the time of bad options. Not talking about any of that.

I was personally talking about the slogan and how messaging matters, especially for this stuff and trying to point out how that failed slogan actually cost them supports and even gave examples of votes I know he lost because of it.

I know Biden won, but I also know that that bad messaging cost them votes as well. How much you can debate till the cows come home and will never have a concrete answer on, but it did run voters off because how bad it was and how it looked bad just looking at it and needed to be explained to anyone to understand how it wasn't bad because the most important part (What the money they took from them went to) wasn't even part of the slogan.

I agree somewhat but there's no evidence defund the police did it because Donald Trump there's no middle ground on the guy. He isn't some regular republican candidate that you need to look up headlines to know what he is doing even the dullest knives in the drawer know about him.

The slogan was awful and if Bernie Sanders or Warren was on top of the ticket you would have a point but we had Biden ffs.

[PhaelixWW]

It must be nice to be a Republican right now. All they need to do throw a fit about the name of a policy to get party Democrats to do a 180.

This is pure hyperbolic tripe.

[Bodakane]

The problem wasn't getting Republicans on board. Fuck those guys.

The problem was that this particular slogan was so garbage that even people who would support the underlying idea are turned off by the slogan unless the meaning is explicitly explained to them. Because, and I don't know why some people are having a problem with this, when people hear "defund" in cases like this they will automatically think "abolish". Not least because they've been conditioned to by past usage of the word.

It's not that the slogan doesn't court Republicans. It's that it also doesn't court most Democrats without a fucking manual. It's a stupid slogan easily open to misinterpretation by even the left--which is still true to this day.

Because they aren't aggressive. The slogan was created in the streets as a rallying cry not a policy sales pitch and the Dems did precisely fuck all to sell it or run with it. They let Repubs control the narrative on it.

[PACOX]

Except you and others are still defending the bad name/slogan. I haven't seen you or others acknowledging that it was a terrible choice for the movement. However, to be clear, I believe the movement needs to continue full throttle - it's one of the best social policy choices this country could make.

Then support the cause and stop holding it up everytime someone says 'defund'.

[starlord]

Because they aren't aggressive. The slogan was created in the streets as a rallying cry not a policy sales pitch and the Dems did precisely fuck all to sell it or run with it. They let Repubs control the narrative on it.

no, there were prominent dems who took it up. for better or worse "the squad" et al get a lot of air in the media.

which is why the other dems are telling them to be more focused on their messaging.

[Fugus]

@PACOX

If I created a slogan that was "Defund Schools" do you think it was bad and it would cost me support for my group?

Does it really matter that the intend behind that message is that we need to get rid of public funding going to private religious schools and instead invest it in better daycare for families so the working class can go to work while their younger children go to daycare and their older kids go to public schools?

[PACOX]

This is pure hyperbolic tripe.

So is backing out of cause be looking up a word in the dictionary is hard.

[PhaelixWW]

So is backing out of cause be looking up a word in the dictionary is hard.

That characterization is so far from the truth as to be garbage.

Which is why I called it hyperbolic tripe.

[Benggaul]

This is pure hyperbolic tripe.

Consider the source.

[starlord]

Then support the cause and stop holding it up everytime someone says 'defund'.

voicing support online doesn't matter if there aren't butts in seats in congress to make any meaningful change.

[Fugus]

I agree somewhat but there's no evidence defund the police did it because Donald Trump there's no middle ground on the guy. He isn't some regular republican candidate that you need to look up headlines to know what he is doing even the dullest knives in the drawer know about him.

The slogan was awful and if Bernie Sanders or Warren was on top of the ticket you would have a point but we had Biden ffs.

I was never talking about Biden particularly or any of them, I was talking expressly about their Slogans and the impact it has on their support and voter turnout and that impacts every candidate who runs.

Did Biden win? Yes.
Did that Slogan cost him more votes than it gained him? Yes, I even know personal voters who's vote it cost him.
If they fixed that Slogan that was more informative and direct would it have given them more support and less allowed others to lie about it? Again, YES

[Felya]

So is backing out of cause be looking up a word in the dictionary is hard.

Now say that while recognizing no one is backing out of a cause, when saying the issue is with the slogan. You know what it makes you, when the slogan maters more than the cause? Superficial...

[Katchii]

So is backing out of cause be looking up a word in the dictionary is hard.

Who's backing away from the cause because of the slogan?

Source for that?

[Fugus]

@PACOX

We don't need them to back out of the cause, what they should have done was to back out of the SLOGAN it started with and give it one that actually fit what it was trying to do instead of such a negative one that left out the important part and let the Republicans control the narrative on the messaging.

[Deja Thoris]

So is backing out of cause be looking up a word in the dictionary is hard.

You sure are choosing a stupid hill to die on.

[Edge-]

It must be nice to be a Republican right now. All they need to do throw a fit about the name of a policy to get party Democrats to do a 180.

Are you just gonna keep erecting an army of strawmen because you're mad about something?

[Draco-Onis]

I was never talking about Biden particularly or any of them, I was talking expressly about their Slogans and the impact it has on their support and voter turnout and that impacts every candidate who runs.

Did Biden win? Yes.
Did that Slogan cost him more votes than it gained him? Yes, I even know personal voters who's vote it cost him.
If they fixed that Slogan that was more informative and direct would it have given them more support and less allowed others to lie about it? Again, YES

But it wasn't Biden slogan Biden had no slogan no message, the notion that defund the police is what did it seems rather silly when they are bigger more obvious problems. I think you are buying into the republican argument " if only democrats were more right wing they would do better". That mentality is the reason democrats don't win as big as they should they depress the heck of their voters every time they go right wing. Hillary Clin...I mean Joe Biden as a character depressed the vote not because of defund the police but because he represents the status quo you know the thing people voted against twice (Obama, Trump).