Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Benggaul]

Because they aren't aggressive. The slogan was created in the streets as a rallying cry not a policy sales pitch and the Dems did precisely fuck all to sell it or run with it. They let Repubs control the narrative on it.

*shrug* Debateable. And if it was "created in the streets" then those who were responsible for it did an equally terrible job of selling it. As I've said, I've had to explain what it meant to several people on the left as well because they, too, balked at the notion that it meant abolishing the police completely. If it needs a detailed explanation to describe what it's meant to represent it's a bad slogan, regardless of source.

But given that this has all continued to go way off-topic I'll end my part of it here.

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Who's backing away from the cause because of the slogan?

Source for that?

Don't hold your breath waiting.

[PickleballAce]

I have to give considerable credit to the libs and leftists around here and other internet spaces for for largely realizing that "Defund the Police" is brainlet terminology and if there's any intellect behind it, it's that the ongoing discussion behind how brainlet it is manages to accidentally keep the idea of police reform at the front of our minds.

At least until we spend more time on the name, and less on the issue at hand.

[Nurasu]

"We know you're exasperated, and there's a good chance you could be killed by riot police in the near future, but you really need to talk to our marketing department before you go spouting off next time."

[Benggaul]

"We know you're exasperated, and there's a good chance you could be killed by riot police in the near future, but you really need to talk to our marketing department before you go spouting off next time."

Or, you know, those who wanted to take up their cry could find a better way of explaining it than just repeating something that's been proven to be completely misunderstood time and time again to the detriment of those they wish to protect.

[starlord]

"We know you're exasperated, and there's a good chance you could be killed by riot police in the near future, but you really need to talk to our marketing department before you go spouting off next time."

do you expect anything to change in the near future?

[Nurasu]

Or, you know, those who wanted to take up their cry could find a better way of explaining it than just repeating something that's been proven to be completely misunderstood time and time again to the detriment of those they wish to protect.

The bottom line is that defund the police is not even a Democrat slogan. The party chose to ignore it nearly completely, so it's on the party if that cost the party in the election. That slogan had nothing to do with it. They could have invented their own, they could have worked to change the narrative, but the reality is that they have no intention of going big on police reform.

[Fugus]

But it wasn't Biden slogan Biden had no slogan no message, the notion that defund the police is what did it seems rather silly when they are bigger more obvious problems. I think you are buying into the republican argument " if only democrats were more right wing they would do better". That mentality is the reason democrats don't win as big as they should they depress the heck of their voters every time they go right wing. Hillary Clin...I mean Joe Biden as a character depressed the vote not because of defund the police but because he represents the status quo you know the thing people voted against twice (Obama, Trump).

You are missing the bigger picture. Regardless of if it was BIDEN's slogan, it was a slogan associated with the Democratic party which he was running under. Similar to how Republican's who back the KKK openly risk having that impact the non-racists voters even if they aren't voting for that person.

That slogan was still associated with anyone that ran on the Democratic ticket and the Republicans made sure to try and pin that on all of them. I am not buying the Republican's argument, you are failing to see the forest from the trees on this one man.

And I never said anything about "If only the Democrats were more right wing" you can stop that Yuffie level shit right there buddy.....


Ok, lets try this again.

Don't pretend people are as informed as you are, or I am, or Endus is, or Cubby is, or any of us. Most aren't.

That Slogan when it came out, was a horrible one and actively ignored the important part of the actual policy while focusing on the part that people would dislike by itself. Instead of actually spinning that message into a more descriptive and positive one that actually reflected what they were trying to do, the Democrats left it and let the Republicans control the messaging on it with that bad slogan.

Now, while Biden didn't campaign on it and actively said he would not, the fact is that that slogan was never corrected and attached to the Democratic party and every one in it, including Biden. And the Republicans made it a point to make sure that label was pinned to them all.

That actually COST them votes and potentially even seats because the average voter didn't hear the full policy, the average voter didn't actively hear Biden say he wouldn't defund the police, the average voter did hear ad after ad talking about it though.

The average voter isn't on MMO-Champion/politics section on the forums or any forum for that matter, whether on facebook or anywhere else. You have to take that into account.

If they don't stop letting others control the messaging on their policies, they will continue to lose votes because of it.

[Nurasu]

do you expect anything to change in the near future?

Not until there's a Black party.

[cubby]

So when Trump threatens to defund NYC and California he means he is going to to abolish them? GTFO out here with that nonsense that Americans can't understand a 3rd grade vocabulary word, and if they don't now that they can't be educate.

Why do Dems always at like they are the receiving end of an abusive relationship always trying to appease the abuse who has already moved on? It's pathetic.

What should the initiative be called then? Maybe we should go ask what the Blue Lives Matter people what they approve of.

Since you asked for it. Defund definition: to withdraw funding from.

So that definition is at best ambiguous, and easily misconstrued. But keep on not listening to people, who are literally on your side, patiently trying to explain that your intended meaning isn't working, at all.

[Shadowferal]

I dont think Trump or McConnell are their intended audience.... look south.

Hello Georgia Voters. Are you interested in financial assistance for Covid? There's a referendum in your state about whether you get money or not.

Bingo, we have a winner.

[Nurasu]

You are missing the bigger picture. Regardless of if it was BIDEN's slogan, it was a slogan associated with the Democratic party which he was running under. Similar to how Republican's who back the KKK openly risk having that impact the non-racists voters even if they aren't voting for that person.

A really simple solution is to create your own slogan if you don't like that one. The party wanted black voters without fully supporting the black cause.

[Benggaul]

The bottom line is that defund the police is not even a Democrat slogan. The party chose to ignore it nearly completely, so it's on the party if that cost the party in the election. That slogan had nothing to do with it. They could have invented their own, they could have worked to change the narrative, but the reality is that they have no intention of going big on police reform.

Except prominent members of the Dems such as AOC have also parroted the slogan. I like AOC. I hope she goes far. She did not, however, help by just saying "defund the police means defund the police" instead of giving a better explanation or rallying call as a very public figure. She and several other more progressive members of the Democratic party had ample opportunity to make the message clear and did not do so. They didn't ignore it; they just didn't refine it into something most people could get behind. (Remember, the initial argument was that OMGCENTRISTS didn't go along with Progressives in this instance.)

But once again, this is going off topic and I keep getting drawn back in. I'll just take a step back from the thread until more results/fuckery come in instead of these ridiculously circular arguments.

[xmirrors]

A really simple solution is to create your own slogan if you don't like that one. The party wanted black voters without fully supporting the black cause.

Kind of hard to do when you have big voices like AOC screaming the slogan.

Edit: poster above beat me to it

[Draco-Onis]

You are missing the bigger picture. Regardless of if it was BIDEN's slogan, it was a slogan associated with the Democratic party which he was running under. Similar to how Republican's who back the KKK openly risk having that impact the non-racists voters even if they aren't voting for that person.

That slogan was still associated with anyone that ran on the Democratic ticket and the Republicans made sure to try and pin that on all of them. I am not buying the Republican's argument, you are failing to see the forest from the trees on this one man.

And I never said anything about "If only the Democrats were more right wing" you can stop that Yuffie level shit right there buddy.....


Ok, lets try this again.

Don't pretend people are as informed as you are, or I am, or Endus is, or Cubby is, or any of us. Most aren't.

That Slogan when it came out, was a horrible one and actively ignored the important part of the actual policy while focusing on the part that people would dislike by itself. Instead of actually spinning that message into a more descriptive and positive one that actually reflected what they were trying to do, the Democrats left it and let the Republicans control the messaging on it with that bad slogan.

Now, while Biden didn't campaign on it and actively said he would not, the fact is that that slogan was never corrected and attached to the Democratic party and every one in it, including Biden. And the Republicans made it a point to make sure that label was pinned to them all.

That actually COST them votes and potentially even seats because the average voter didn't hear the full policy, the average voter didn't actively hear Biden say he wouldn't defund the police, the average voter did hear ad after ad talking about it though.

The average voter isn't on MMO-Champion/politics section on the forums or any forum for that matter, whether on facebook or anywhere else. You have to take that into account.

If they don't stop letting others control the messaging on their policies, they will continue to lose votes because of it.

Okay I will say this again another way Donald Trump is a very polarizing figure so much so family members fight and don't talk about him. You should perhaps consider the possibility that the people you know lied and just needed an excuse to vote for him in secret. I mean no offense but I know several people who voted for him in 2016 and 2020 but would never admit to it because that conversation never goes well.

Again you don't need to be an MMO-C person to know Donald Trump is an incompetent racist fuck if that is outweigh by defund the police that is an indication of the kind of person you are dealing with.

[cubby]

Then support the cause and stop holding it up everytime someone says 'defund'.

You mean stop helping the movement by trying to get better slogans and marketing phrases so more people will understand the movement? You want me to support the movement by not helping it?

You just need to sit back and reevaluate the movements naming convention and realize that maybe you aren't right about everything.

[PACOX]

@PACOX

If I created a slogan that was "Defund Schools" do you think it was bad and it would cost me support for my group?

Does it really matter that the intend behind that message is that we need to get rid of public funding going to private religious schools and instead invest it in better daycare for families so the working class can go to work while their younger children go to daycare and their older kids go to public schools?

That's really not close to the issue.

'Defund Schools'

No one thinks 'defund' used in that slogan means 'to abolish'. No one. If they do they just defeated the entire cause because obviously schools didn't get enough funding while they were attending. Everyone knows it to reduce funding, full stop.

The slogan doesn't mesh with your description at all. When you say 'schools', especially when it comes to public policy, people assume public schools. The slogan makes no sense at all. Your group would know what you mean regardless and they aren't going to stop advocating for it just because the verbage is off. Hell if your a Republican you're doubling down on it.



"Defund the police", "Redirect police funding", "Reallocate funds", yadda yadda.

We're not talking rocket science here.

If you're looking for something that captures all the nuance of a policy(s) in one 3 letter phrase then we might as well shut down the government because it will never happen.

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Kind of hard to do when you have big voices like AOC screaming the slogan.

Edit: poster above beat me to it

That's why they said "create your own".

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do you expect anything to change in the near future?

How much time is needed to come up with an alternative slogan for an issue that's been around for decades?

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I did notice a few anti-progressive Democrats in this thread making comments that BLM, "Defund the Police" and M4A is what almost lost Biden the elections though. Considering they usually mention it with the claim that the Democratic Party should move more to the right to attract more moderates, it seems unlikely to me that they only took offense with the slogan and not the entire idea behind police reform as a whole.

Its almost like I purposely one of those people in my initial post today.

[Edge-]

If you're looking for something that captures all the nuance of a policy(s) in one 3 letter phrase then we might as well shut down the government because it will never happen.

How about we don't try to reduce complex, nuanced issues down to slogans, then?

I mean, I'm pretty cool with that, myself. Slogans are to get the blood pumping. They're to get folks hyped. "Hope", "Change", "MAGA", "Law and Order", "Build Back Better" etc., they're empty vessels for people to fill in the blanks on with whatever they want.

Slogans are cool and all, and I don't want to overstate their importance because they're not gonna determine someones vote alone. But at the same time, they are a part of the overall political calculus, and as I've already shown nobody outside of the target demographic knows what it means, and those that don't grossly misinterpret it.

It's just a bad slogan that gained steam and unfortunately ended up muddying what is and should be a serious discussion on race, policing, and the justice system in America when it comes to people of color and people in poverty. That's the conversation we have been, and should still be having. Not quibbling over a bad slogan.

[postman1782]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-ne...e-conspiracies

Fox News seems to be doing some house keeping, John Solomon, former op-ed writer at the Hill and creator of the Ukraine conspiracies, is no longer going to be on the network.

Grifters becoming unemployed is a beautiful thing.

Don't worry, he has been grifting with his "Just The News" website since he got fired by the Hill.

[Edge-]

Don't worry, he has been grifting with his "Just The News" website since he got fired by the Hill.

Given that this is the first I'm hearing of it, I can only hope that means it's as utterly irrelevant as I think it is. Wow, it claims to be non-partisan and has a whole fuckin section for Rasmussen numbers.

Top kek.

[Hinastorm]

Bingo, we have a winner.

I'm gonna lose my fucking shit if Democrats don't go HARD on this point in these elections.

Like, fuck. What better way to get someone to vote your way then LITERALLY GIVING THEM MONEY, DIRECTLY. Like fuck.

If Democrats fuck this one up they are really fucking hopeless.