Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[breadisfunny]

I don't understand this seemingly circular logic.

First, you'd have quite of a time in listing all the policies from all the presidents that clearly demonstrate a connection to putting someone like Trump in the WH.

As to your logic, you don't want to vote for Biden cause he represents that which you think put Trump in the WH. But Trump is in the WH right now and not voting for his direct opponent means that he will remain in the WH, something which you are apparently agaisnt.

This is some Nero like stuff. You're displeased with the status quo and you're willing to set the whole thing on fire and watch it burn to the ground, so you can come later and rebuild, except there won't be anyone or anything there to rebuilt from.

You're willingly participating in the process of holding back your country for 4 more years, why? Because you're the spoiled kid in the yard who isn't getting his way and decides to scream and pout until everyone else concedes?

no he's exercising his right to not vote in the general election. problem?

[Grimbold21]

no he's exercising his right to not vote in the general election. problem?

That's not it, don't be disingenuous.

He made his position pretty clear.

If you abhor the idea of Trump as president, you don't give him an extension, not unless his opponent is a vastly superior buffon, egomaniac or some sort of genocidal extremist, or a combination of all that.

[Felya]

I made the statement that you made a dishonest statement. You asked for proof and I supplied proof. I refuse trying to meet your goal post anymore as you keep moving them.

Yeah, you claimed I made a dishonest statement, which shockingly bothers me more than it bothers you. You didn’t supply proof, you supplied your not understanding the argument I had with someone else. Then complained I was wrong for putting words in your mouth. I linked explaining what I said, from my literally next post. Unless you are admitting to being as disingenuous as you appear, I suggest you start showing actual proof.

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I am holding my elected officials responsible for by not supporting their actions and votes. If more people did this the middle class might not have been gutted at the expense of the ultra wealthy.

No, if more people did this, Hillary might have lost the popular vote. No democrat has ever done, what Trump has done or demanded be done to fund ultra wealthy like him self, at the cost of American workers in just the last week. Yet, here you are... bitching about democrats. Bullshit...

They risk putting up someone worse then Trump in 4 to 8 years if Biden wins.

Why wouldn’t democrats put up someone like Trump in 4 years, if he wins again?

[Felya]

I Only way I would give Trump an extension is if I'd vote for him. I will not be voting for Trump.

It speaks volumes people would hold my non-vote (that isn't really counted in the EC) accountable for Trump. Yet completely ignore all the votes that Joe Biden took in his time in the Senate. That apparently doesn't matter at all to people, and they wonder why both parties are so corrupt. People keep voting them into office.

Because people voting for Biden are recognizing that no democrat has done more in the last week to harm working class, while benefiting the rich, than Trump. Yet, here you are bitching about Biden and how shitty a choice that is. Giving absolutely no visible shit about Trump’s trampling of workers rights.

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Yupe, and I will continue to bitch about the Democrats to their supports just as I would have no problem bitching about the GOP to their supporters. They are both terrible, and have been my entire life.

Yes, the supporters are the problem... not the actual people fucking over Americans as I type this. I’m the problem... not Trump... right?

[Felya]

Putting all the blame on Trump for Pandemic is silly. The US has failed miserably, but we are not unique in our failure, and you have no real evidence but conjecture we wouldn't be having the same main issue now if Hillary had been President.

The above defense of Trump is silly. Remember your bitching about Biden signing the war authorization act in Iraq? Yesterday, both republicans and democrats United, to pass a bill, denying Trump authorization to go to war with Iran. He fucking vetoed it. Two days ago, Trump demanded amnesty for corporations confronted by employees, with no other sole suggesting such breach of workers rights. Yey, it’s not Trump’s fault? Blame society? Sorry... that was played out 20 years ago...

Edit: Hillary is not a corporation. If you think Hillary would grant corporations a 15% tax cut, at the cost of healthcare for Americans, you are horribly wrong based on history.

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I thought I made this clear, Trump those in the Senate and Congress are all to blame for the response. Not the voters. People continuing to vote and support parties that are corrupt should expect some push back.

No, you fucking didn’t. You literally just said you go after Trump when dealing with GOP supporters, then switch to target Biden for his voters. The fucking issues don’t mean shit, based on that. All of congress voted to deny Trump war powers, that you blame Biden for, he vetoed it. Trump the person... not his supporters... not congress. The man you can’t seem to blame... Trump.

[Felya]

Stating facts isn't silly. Trump didn't cause the Pandemic or the Economic collapse. Those two things were seemly inevitable.

Excuse me? I responded to this:

The US has failed miserably, but we are not unique in our failure, and you have no real evidence but conjecture we wouldn't be having the same main issue now if Hillary had been President.

That is not a fact. This is a fact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinto...e_plan_of_1993

To even suggest that Hillary would disband the pandemic relief team, gut people’s healthcare and act like this is a hoax... is absurd. It’s absolutely devoid of reality. No single president in US history has done such a thing. You are using Trump as a precedent for behavior unique to him.

[Edge-]

Putting all the blame on Trump for Pandemic is silly.

Why, though? Did he actually limit travel in a meaningful way early? Is the White House leading the response and organizing logistics with states? Has he used the DPA to get much-needed PPE for first responders? Has he kept information flowing freely to the US public and toned down his insane distractions, and supported the science-based evidence? Did he not shutter the pandemic response team a few years back? Was it not his administration that was briefed and went through multiple scenarios of potential pandemics when they were coming into office from the Obama staff? Is it not his administration that didn't pay attention to that training and has very few people who even attended it left at the White House?

Not in your opinion? Maybe in your opinion?

Alright then.

Who else is to blame for the spectacular failure of the federal response?

Do you honestly think Hillary Clinton would be constantly contradicting experts? Do you think she'd be using daily briefings to air political grievances and attack the media? Do you think she'd be suggesting using untested drugs to fight the virus? Would she be letting states try to secure their own emergency supplies, leading to them outbidding each other? Would she be sending FEMA to intercept and confiscate shipments of PPE to the point where Democratic governors would feel the need to fly PPE or tests in under total secrecy, and transport them to secret locations under armed guard to make sure the Feds didn't take it?

I mean, there's a lot to unpack here dude.

[Felya]

Conjecture. You have no way of knowing How Hillary would have handled it. As I said. You are assuming Hillary would have faced this thing head on. You have no real evidence to prove otherwise. So other than playing make believe in another reality we have to deal with this one. A pandemic happened, and plenty of other countries screwed up in their response as well.

Bullshit... no other country had a response like ours. This is a complete joke defending the current administration, while trying to act like you don’t know what would have happened with Hillary... the one pushing healthcare as a First Lady. I am sorry, but as human being we have deductive reasoning. Where we can take events in the past and the present, to come to a reasonable conclusion to what is likely to happen. Under no circumstances, outside of supernatural, is it possible that Hillary would have had a similar reaction.

Edit: Show me a single time that Hillary suggested a 15% corporate tax cut. A single time she has acted remotely the same as Trump acting now. Show me one thing about Hillary, who worked with Reagan on providing council to those that can not afford it, would suggest stripping rights from workers so corporations can’t be liable. A single fucking thing...

[jonnysensible]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1258759517824856065

a trolling PAC good shit.

Its going to be bad when we see a qanon pac tho.

[Felya]

I didn't say you can't blame him for the Federal Response. That's is not the same thing as putting all the blame on Trump. Many states even Democratic ones were slow to respond and take the CDC guidelines seriously. I know I argued with you about it on the elections leading up to Florida Elections.

Yeah, why weren’t stated organized by the federal government again? You know... as every single president has done in similar situations? Oh, there is plenty of blame to go around. But, when you are tossing shit like Hillary would be an unknown, compared to Trump? Bullshit cover for Trump.

If the CDC puts out guild lines saying we need to observe social distances, and then turn around tell people to go to China Town, go out to Vote in person, or to go to restaurants & Bars. That wasn't all Trump. Actually everything I listed was said by Democrat and Democratic candidates.

Trump is blocking CDC guidelines from being released. Literally right now and you are going to toss at me Trump linked fakes video of China town? No buddy, she was telling people to not be afraid of China town, because there were attacks on Asian Americans, due to Trump’s rhetoric. An alt right twitter, re-edited the video and Trump reposted it, now you are repeating it... to protect Trump.

I'm not defending them. They are to blame for the response, but not for the Pandemic. I can't help you can't square those two things.

No... you intend not to defend them, but you really are going out of your way, repeating talking points.

Prove to me exactly how Hillary would have handled it.... You can't. Simple.

Easy... show me her ever suggesting anything that Trump has suggested or done. I show that her reaction would be better, because she pushed a healthcare bill as First Lady and even worked with Reagan to fund people who can’t afford lawyers. I need some proof, that she would do the complete opposite of her history to defend Trump against what he is doing.

[Edge-]

I didn't say you can't blame him for the Federal Response. That's is not the same thing as putting all the blame on Trump. Many states even Democratic ones were slow to respond and take the CDC guidelines seriously. I know I argued with you about it on the elections leading up to Florida Elections.

I mean...Florida has a Republican governor, dude. And I'm not saying Democrats have been, or Hillary would be, perfect. But states responding slowly because there's no impetus from the federal government is kinda a consequence of a failure of leadership. CDC guidelines being constantly contradicted, or in the latest case of their guidelines for safely re-opening the country, actively hidden from the public.

If the CDC puts out guild lines saying we need to observe social distances, and then turn around tell people to go to China Town, go out to Vote in person, or to go to restaurants & Bars. That wasn't all Trump. Actually everything I listed was said by Democrat and Democratic candidates.

February 12 - https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/12/...till-possible/

He added that “at some point in time it is highly probable that we’ll have to transition to mitigation” as a public health strategy, using “social distancing measures” — for example, closure of certain public facilities — and other techniques to try to limit the number of people who become infected.

CDC interim guidance for ships with infected crew/passengers: Updated Feb 13.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/marit...for-ships.html

Pelosi in Chinatown - February 24

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/tr...and-chinatown/

CDC interim guidelines for health care facilities - Feb 29

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...dance-hcf.html

CDC interim guidelines from schools and child care centers - March 19

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...r-schools.html

CDC interim guidance for business and employers - March 22

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-response.html

So you either knew this timeline and are lying, or you're making up your own timelines. CDC guidlines for businesses alone were almost a month after her comments.

Bonus points: Here's the earliest CDC references to the general public social distancing that I can find on their site - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...istancing.html

That's April 4, dude.

[Felya]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1258759517824856065

a trolling PAC good shit.

Its going to be bad when we see a qanon pac tho.

I chanted Pence 2020 way before them!

[Felya]

That's April 4, dude.

A lot of the disinformation is from Trump retweeting an alt right twitter account, that contained edited footage to make it seem like she was just telling people to go out after the pandemic. It might be an accident he misinterpreted, not an intentional change of time line.

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How Hillary would have responded is an unknown. We don't know how Obama would have handled it. There is no magic 8 ball that lets you see into a reality that never existed.

Do you know what the saying... ‘those who don’t learn from history, are doomed to repeat it’...means? because, that would mean you are doomed.

I'm talking about the guidelines that had been put out publicly by the CDC. States ignored it. They did so willingly.

Look up... Edge got me covered. Want to try again? Maybe Trump should have done something as President.

Yes, I often try and refer facts when I have a talking point.

Your argument is that using history, to show how someone behaves, is conjecture. That means facts are pointless.

I never stated how Hillary would have handled it. Just that we don't know how she would have. You're the saying she would have done a better job, and so far you haven't provided any real evidence. Which isn't too surprising, because such evidence can't exist. Yet here you are trying to say Hillary would have done a better job with no proof.

Well, if you think that her doing worse or the same as Trump, I’d like you to prove it. Since there has to be a scenario that you can imagine where she would act as bad as Trump, based on her history. If you don’t know, it means that every possibility, is possible.

So... let’s see if we can narrow it down, using fact from history. Let’s set the bar at how she would do worse than Trump. State your facts how that would be possible, based on her history. I present her 1993 healthcare plan, as a fact representative of how important she thinks healthcare is. In fact, I plan to use that, to at least agree on ‘better than Trump’. Go ahead, present your counter fact, that would suggest Hillary would be worse.

Yes, we will explain deductive reasoning, one deduction at a time. Can’t get simpler than that...

[cors8]

I just find it hilarious that you can say Biden would be terrible because of his past actions but somehow we can't deduce how Hillary would respond to the current pandemic if she were President.

[beanman12345]

I just find it hilarious that you can say Biden would be terrible because of his past actions but somehow we can't deduce how Hillary would respond to the current pandemic if she were President.

Really highlights that ones inability to use rudementary logic.

[Edge-]

March 15th dude.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-covid-19.html

Elections happened 2 days later.

Mass gatherings are different from "going out to the store".

Also, weeks after the Pelosi comment.

Here was Biden the same day.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...mount-n1159471

Are we talking about Biden, or Pelosi? I thought we were talking about Pelosi's comment, what does Biden have to do with this?

How soon the CDC confirmed person to person contact. Well before Pelosi ChinaTown's "come out and go into public".

https://www.hpnonline.com/infection-...irus-in-the-us

Yep, they did. But that wasn't what you said. You said the CDC had put out guidelines when she made her comments. They had not. Their earliest guidelines that were applicable were either mass-gatherings or for businesses, which came nearly a full month after her comment.

How early the virus could have been spreading in France. Long before it was actually covered or taken seriously. I would be surprised if the virus wasn't already in the United states around the same. But of course that sort of stuff has to come out through test and statistical analysis.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...24857920301643

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...24857920301643

Again, this has nothing to do with your attempt to slander Pelosi by repeating a Trump lie, claiming she told people to come to Chinatown after the CDC had put out social distancing guidelines. You're not just moving the goalposts, but you've thrown down your baseball bat and are now claiming that we're playing cricket.

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Well at least New York was on the same page as late as March 18.

Cool, CA did it 2 days later - https://calmatters.org/health/corona...irus-lockdown/

And SF did it 2 days before NY - https://www.sfdph.org/dph/alerts/fil...r-in-Place.pdf

Both of which were after her comments.

[Felya]

Holding someone accountable for their actions and votes is different then trying to be a fortune teller about events that will never take place. Why you find "hilarious" is itself kind of funny.

How are you holding anyone accountable, when you don’t know what that accountability entails. Why does it mater what Biden did in the past, if you claim it forms no impression of his future? Why do you believe he will not atone and hold him self accountable as president?

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Pelosi was question about doing it at the time. She shouldn't have been encouraging people to gather. Full Stop.

“We want people to be concerned and vigilant, but not afraid”...

[Edge-]

Polling Places are Mass Gatherings. This was on Election day.

...in Florida on March 17?? What the hell does this have to do with Pelosi making comments about it being safe to shop in SF on Feb 24, weeks before the CDC had issued any guidelines on social distancing as you'd claimed.

I'm lost, did the discussion radically shift direction for a handful of posts and nobody told me?

Pelosi was question about doing it at the time. She shouldn't have been encouraging people to gather. Full Stop.

Video: 24 Feb 2020

Florida Election: 17 Mar 2020

That election was weeks after Pelosi's comments. It's really hard not to view these posts as intentional lies when the dates are right there.

I don't even know what Trump said. Don't lie about what I'm saying. You're a moderator. You should know better.

Then you saw them somewhere else, and have been repeatedly retelling that same lie without bothering to verify its accuracy, and while continually refusing to be corrected when I and others have pointed out that your story does not match the timeline of reality.

You also clearly didn't read the last link. Good Job.

Ah, misread the headline. So NY wasn't acting as quickly, but SF before Cuomo even dismissed the idea, and CA acted shortly after.

But again, I'm not sure what does any of this has to do with the original topic of discussion, which was your claim that Pelosi encouraged people to shop in China Town in SF after the CDC had issued guidelines on social distancing.

We rate that claim: Pants on Fire.

[Felya]

Bidens past votes effected the future. It's called causation.

How do you know he won’t fix it? How can you predict the future, where Biden doesn’t fix all the issues you have with him?

No the only people who should have been going to China Town at that time are the people who lived in the area.

In February? When Trump cut funding to CDC in 2019... do you think, based on Palosi statement in that video, she would have cut it?

That was an incorrect statement and given all the evidence at the time as a member of Congress I expect better.

What evidence at the time? Remember the February date...

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You are cherry picking what I said, and using evidence that has to deal with another subject. Perhaps if you could manage not to post 10 seperate line of comments quotes you wouldn't get so confused, lost, and cause yourself to put out false claims.

Grats! You just said more negative things about Edge, than you ever did of Trump.

[Felya]

One thing at a time. You and Edge can't keep shit straight, and I am getting beat down by both of you cherry picking off what I said from eachother.

How much time did you save by posting this nonsense?

Simply put, I don't know he won't fix it, but given his track record I don't trust him.

Why does his record mean anything, when you just called Hillary’s record conjecture?