Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Paranoid Android]

As I told the President this morning, I’ve publicly called for a signature audit three times (11/20, 11/24, 12/3) to restore confidence in our election process and to ensure that only legal votes are counted in Georgia
-- Gov. Kemp

So Trump is lying. Again.

"But Breccia! Surely Gov. Kemp is lying ab--"

Here is 11/20

Here is 11/24 but he might have meant 11/23, there are more stories then.

And Hannity himself has the last one.

There is no reason to believe that someone contradicrting Trump is lying. Trump lies about everything all the time.

Why is Trump lying about Gov. Kemp? Obviously he's trying to manufacture outrage, and he can't do it with facts, evidence, or logic. Of course, a lot of people would do so by attacking their already-existsing enemies, not by creating new ones. It's not like Kemp's done nothing, he just hasn't outright broken the law or staged a coup. Like Trump is.

I would love to hear from a genuine, direct Trump supporter why they approve of Trump's approach here. But even those few who seemed genuine, not the blatant trolls or craven cowards who outnumbered them 45 to 1, have been MIA. I could beg them to respond and still be more likely to bang Salma Hayek than see their response.

It's okay -- Graham's wife isn't into threesomes.

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No.

That's what the diapers are for.

As I state again; Attempting a coup is still a coup.

I get you are adding more to the story. Sure Kemp can unequivocally state he certifying and will not change.

The issue is the President probing for a way. Like somebody going to each its generals or person in government saying 'are you with me'.

The other issue is of course he is subverting our election process. The Holy Shit of 2106 of Putin even having a little doubt is OMFG in 2020.

To put on the tinfoil hats, Trump has paid his weight in gold to Putin in dividing our country and doubts in government and elections moving forward.

[Breccia]

Speaking of:

Our Ruling

Trump said in a speech that residents the Election Commission suspected of moving are "illegal voters."

But there’s absolutely no factual or logical basis to this claim.

Most people on this list have been regular voters, and nothing about being on the list makes them ineligible to vote. It was just an effort to clarify where voters lived.

We rate this False.

Our Ruling

Trump said that in key swing states, there were more votes than people voting, "in big numbers."

There is zero proof. If he meant there were more votes cast than registered voters, election data show the opposite. In the six key states we examined, there were between several hundred thousand and 2 million more registered voters than votes cast.

If he meant that there was a lot of double voting, his lawyers have provided no evidence to back that up. States use careful systems to prevent that from taking place.

We rate this claim Pants on Fire!

Our Ruling

Trump said Nov. 18 that Wisconsin received a "dump" of Biden votes, asserting this is "unbelievable" and evidence of fraud.

But it’s just evidence of someone who doesn’t understand the vote counting process in Wisconsin.

That jump in Biden votes is when Milwaukee reported its 170,000 absentee ballots all at once. We knew long before the election this group would be reported late together and would weigh heavily in Biden’s favor.

We rate this claim Pants on Fire!

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The other issue is of course he is subverting our election process.

Indeed. Thank goodnees he's incompetent. He might have a (curiously quiet) rabid fanbase, but their members amongst elected officials who could DO SOMETHING! seems pretty low.

[Kaleredar]

As I state again; Attempting a coup is still a coup.

I get you are adding more to the story. Sure Kemp can unequivocally state he certifying and will not change.

The issue is the President probing for a way. Like somebody going to each its generals or person in government saying 'are you with me'.

The other issue is of course he is subverting our election process. The Holy Shit of 2106 of Putin even having a little doubt is OMFG in 2020.

To put on the tinfoil hats, Trump has paid his weight in gold to Putin in dividing our country and doubts in government and elections moving forward.

The only people who he's casting "doubt" in the minds of are the GOP, though.

[Breccia]

So we've all talked about the $200 million Trump has conned out of his followers, claiming it's for legal fees when it was just to keep for himself.

Here's the way small donations are allocated according to the campaign website: "75% of each contribution first to Save America, up to $5,000/$5,000, then to [Donald J. Trump's] Recount Account, up to a maximum of $2,800/$5,000.

Then, the RNC's operating account gets the other 25% of each contribution, up to a maximum of $35,500/$15,000." Any additional funds would be used by the RNC's "Legal Proceedings account or Headquarters account — up to a maximum of $213,000/$90,000."

And the portion designated for Save America coffers has increased since the leadership PAC was established on November 9. The campaign website originally said 60% of donations would go to the Save America PAC and then hiked it to 75%.

And of course:

Although the Trump campaign is still explicitly soliciting for "Election Defense Funds," money donated to his Save America PAC cannot be used to support Mr. Trump's own campaign or the cost of litigation arising from his campaign, Brendan Fischer, Federal Reform Program director at the Campaign Legal Center, told CBS News.

And Fischer pointed out on Twitter that none of the funds raised by Save America paid for Mr. Trump's legal or recount expenses. Instead, much of the money initially raised was used to pay fundraising expenses to WinRed, the conservative fundraising platform used by the RNC.

Mr. Trump and Republicans appear to be paying their post-election legal bills, however; they're just using a separate recount account and the RNC's legal account.

Save America also cannot be used to retire Mr. Trump's campaign debt. Going into November, he seemed to be running low on cash, with just $60 million in cash on hand and $160 million owed for TV ads alone.

But Fischer noted that Mr. Trump has mostly paid off his campaign debt with money raised just after the election from people who may have believed they were giving to his "official election defense fund."

In the first week after November 3, that fine print on Mr. Trump's fundraising page for that "election defense fund" "showed that small donations would largely go towards 2020 debt retirement," Fischer said. That changed on November 9, when Mr. Trump's leadership PAC was established and small donations were then largely shifted to Save America.

Below the first set of fine print, the website states that donors may specifically direct their donations to the recount/legal account, but if the donor gives on a recurring basis, those funds "shall be subject to TMAGAC's prevailing allocation formula at the time of receipt." That is, subsequent automatic donations will mostly go to Mr. Trump's Save America PAC.

Yep. Looks like Trump successfully fleeced his sheep followers.

The article goes on to specify what Trump can and can't do with the money. He cannot spend it on 2024 rallies, He could pay himself or his family as "salaries", something he can't do from his campaign funds.

[Paranoid Android]

The only people who he's casting "doubt" in the minds of are the GOP, though.

No! I'm sorry but frustrating when this is stated. I don't get how people are giving this a pass. This is dangerous.

You mentioned GOP, which let's say is 40% if nation with 40% Dems. This is in a 2 party system and that party can do damage. Sorry to go there but you don't need 50% plus to overthrow this our Constitutional government. Check the history.

It's scary we give Trump a pass and well I guess the Republicans. When this combination is try to subvert our democracy. Along with too many underestimating that it's 'just Trump' or Republicans will be normal.

I’d much rather be watching football right now. Yet everyone should watch the rally to see an active, coordinated #disinfo campaign to undermine confidence in our elections. This is not stumping for candidates. This is corrosive to democracy. I’d rather be watching football.

[Kaleredar]

No! I'm sorry but frustrating when this is stated. I don't get how people are giving this a pass. This is dangerous.

You mentioned GOP, which let's say is 40% if nation with 40% Dems. This is in a 2 party system and that party can do damage. Sorry to go there but you don't need 50% plus to overthrow this our Constitutional government. Check the history.

It's scary we give Trump a pass and well I guess the Republicans. When this combination is try to subvert our democracy. Along with too many underestimating that it's 'just Trump' or Republicans will be normal.

If these people don't believe that elections are valid, then, hopefully, they'll stop participating in them. Which means that they can believe whatever nonsense they want. If they don't vote their beliefs into power, then they stay politically irrelevant. .

And besides. There's absolutely zero legitimate reason to believe this election was not on the up-and-up. Information about it is easily accessible. People who want to believe that it was a sham are doing so willfully. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink

So I really don't know what you want from... someone. The democrats are fully supportive of this election as having been legitimate. Their messaging can't be more "positive" in that regard. And the GOP is going to be spineless and cagey. They just are.

I also don't know who you think is giving Trump "a pass." No democrat or, really, significant media body, is doing so. And while you rightly assess that the GOP is being silent on the matter... that's just what they're going to do.

So that's the system you have to work in. Demanding that the GOP "Be better" hasn't been a meaningful ask in the last 20 years, especially since 2008, and it's clear they aren't going to change that notion any time soon. Moral condemnations are useless against them. The only way to defeat them... is to out-legislate them.

[kaid]

The bonkers thing about this is they did a literal hand recount of the entire GA election and then a second electronic one after that. All of them matched. If there was any kind of sweeping fraud of a level enough to matter that could not be the case. The fact that the GOP can't own up to their emperor having no cloths is just a national embarrassment.

[Xeones]

So anyone see about that case where the dude sued "True The Vote" to get his money back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvqSfc_qGa8

Of course in Trump town it can't be straight forward, involves potential money laundering.

[Paranoid Android]

If these people don't believe that elections are valid, then, hopefully, they'll stop participating in them. Which means that they can believe whatever nonsense they want. If they don't vote their beliefs into power, then they stay politically irrelevant. .

And besides. There's absolutely zero legitimate reason to believe this election was not on the up-and-up. Information about it is easily accessible. People who want to believe that it was a sham are doing so willfully. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink

So I really don't know what you want from... someone. The democrats are fully supportive of this election as having been legitimate. Their messaging can't be more "positive" in that regard. And the GOP is going to be spineless and cagey. They just are.

I also don't know who you think is giving Trump "a pass." No democrat or, really, significant media body, is doing so. And while you rightly assess that the GOP is being silent on the matter... that's just what they're going to do.

So that's the system you have to work in. Demanding that the GOP "Be better" hasn't been a meaningful ask in the last 20 years, especially since 2008, and it's clear they aren't going to change that notion any time soon. Moral condemnations are useless against them. The only way to defeat them... is to out-legislate them.

The GOP or whatever we should call them basically represents half our country in a two party system. Technically in past 20 years where Democrats have had more votes in Presidential, House and Senate races, but yet the GOP has majorities. If this party sticks with Trumpism or at least the populism he pushed then we could easily fall into something that most don't like. Again, this had not even become about tax policy or should we fund government programs. This is straight fascism with now if you vote for the other side you are the enemy.

The only credit I ever give Republicans is they are ruthless and that can overturn governments. The Dems are complete opposite and are patsies almost willingly able to be ran over at anytime. I won't mention which history but other parties who stood passively by were overran by ruthless people, political ideology who never had the majority of people with them but enough.

So yes what can be done? The Dems should ruthlessly put these people in jail. Honestly political theatre and a stunt I would immediately do another impeachment. I know my Senators, both Dems, Schumer or Pelosi have not publicly stated this is a coup. I mean in anything but this being the biggest the Dems just say passively, aggressive comments but never no actions. This is what I'm talking about giving Trump a pass. It has been pretty passive if you read it.

I never asked or said the Republicans should "Be Better". I stated they are now a fascist group. Let's take a playbook for them and I will say enemy of the people. I stated in my replied post it was not a successful coup but they tried. An oh btw bringing up that one fella who we shall not compare, failed the first time too. If you look at the history of many strong men, dictators the first coup is not always success.

So in the end the one side is using the tactics of hate, bigotry and scare tactics that can rile up enough people where the people on the other side, who think they can discuss policy and be civil, won't know what hit them when they are in totally in power and not willing to give it up.

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So we've all talked about the $200 million Trump has conned out of his followers, claiming it's for legal fees when it was just to keep for himself.



And of course:



Yep. Looks like Trump successfully fleeced his sheep followers.

The article goes on to specify what Trump can and can't do with the money. He cannot spend it on 2024 rallies, He could pay himself or his family as "salaries", something he can't do from his campaign funds.

Man, it hurts. This is guy is the most criminal of anyone, but he will likely make enough money to fight or keep creditors off him. Have enough rabid support and weakness by Dems never to really be investigated. Will have enough money to fight the state charges with then possibility of avoiding jail time, cause we know that is our just system. Steal enough money from these rubes, giving money to give to his piece of crap kids that they can be at least multi-millionaires for the rest of their life.

If I every give this con man credit is his con is good enough to keep this up so he can fleece and use this money til the end of time. I could say idc and the people who give are just dumb. Yet, its not about them giving money, its giving this guy a chance to get away with it all.

[Templar 331]

https://twitter.com/richsignorelli/s...384997888?s=21

It's pretty sad how many people eat this shit up. "Dead people voting!" and other nonsense.

And not a mask in sight....

[Felya]

It's pretty sad how many people eat this shit up. "Dead people voting!" and other nonsense.

And not a mask in sight....

Is that ironic or something else? Just macabre? You know... A group of people without masks, during a pandemic, at a rally about their vote, chanting ‘dead people voting!’... that’s a start of zombie movie...

[Templar 331]

Is that ironic or something else? Just macabre? You know... A group of people without masks, during a pandemic, at a rally about the vote, chanting ‘dead people voting!’... that’s a start of zombie movie...

Zombie Land and The Walking Dead were both filmed in Georgia soooooo.....

Also just found out one of my coworkers went to the event. The video he posted also shows no one wearing a mask.

[Felya]

Zombie Land and The Walking Dead were both filmed in Georgia soooooo.....

Also just found out one of my coworkers went to the event. The video he posted also shows no one wearing a mask.

I screwed up by saying ‘the vote’, instead of ‘their vote’... They were chanting ‘dead people voting’, about their vote... next time they will chant... ‘Brains!!!!’...

[Breccia]

It's pretty sad how many people eat this shit up. "Dead people voting!" and other nonsense.

And not a mask in sight....

Just putting it out there: since the election, I'm estimating about 30,000 Americans who voted, died. We never really stopped to specifically check any surge after election day, but I'm just going to state without evidence they didn't die from touching a mailbox.

[Templar 331]

Just putting it out there: since the election, I'm estimating about 30,000 Americans who voted, died. We never really stopped to specifically check any surge after election day, but I'm just going to state without evidence they didn't die from touching a mailbox.

I really wish there was a way to tally how many people early voted but died before election day. Just so we can punch an empirical hole in their stupid ass conspiracy.

"PEOPLE WHO ARE DEAD VOTED!!!"

"It's not a bunch of corpses casting votes. They were alive when they voted and we know who they were."

[Felya]

I really wish there was a way to tally how many people early voted but died before election day. Just so we can punch an empirical hole in their stupid ass conspiracy.

"PEOPLE WHO ARE DEAD VOTED!!!"

"It's not a bunch of corpses casting votes. They were alive when they voted and we know who they were."

Registration is updated when they die. Those votes would not have counted... there is a lot of verification that already takes place.

[Thekri]

Registration is updated when they die. Those votes would not have counted... there is a lot of verification that already takes place.

Not necessarily true, depending on the state. Many states do count early votes that from people that die between casting and election day. Here is a good article on the topic, which covers some of the challenges and legal grey areas here (After all, they were qualified and legal ballots when they voted, and if they had died on November 4th if would definitely be counted)

[Felya]

Not necessarily true, depending on the state. Many states do count early votes that from people that die between casting and election day. Here is a good article on the topic, which covers some of the challenges and legal grey areas here (After all, they were qualified and legal ballots when they voted, and if they had died on November 4th if would definitely be counted)

Ofcource it depends on the state... why wouldn’t it... :/

Don’t agonize... standardize!!!

[Breccia]

I really wish there was a way to tally how many people early voted but died before election day.

Good news! Burden of proof is on the accuser. If people want to claim dead people voted, they could start by, you know, naming one.

[Thekri]

Ofcource it depends on the state... why wouldn’t it... :/

Don’t agonize... standardize!!!

Yep, pretty much everything related to election law depends on the state. Because the US system basically consists of 51 completely separate elections (Plus the territorial elections, which don't have electoral college votes, but still vote on all local offices). This is actually kind of a good thing, and working as intended, because it makes it extremely hard to actually rig an election across multiple states, because the federal government has basically nothing to do with it. The sheer chaos of it is an advantage, because nobody can really mess with 51 different systems at the same time, all of which have very different authority chains.