Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Flower Milk]

And I'm tired of y'all taking out your frustration on your supposed "allies" because you can't see the difference between a milquetoast neoliberal and an actual fascist.

Again: big talk about delayed justice when by and far the most deserving group of justice did not, in fact, vote for Bernie - and then because of aforementioned frustration, said voters got called ignorant dupes.

Liberals are not my ally, they've made that increasingly clear they don't give a shit about leftists and have given us a big fat middle finger. Do you think we're allies? Be honest. Just admit it already, you fucking hate us.

[Elegiac]

Liberals are not my ally, they've made that increasingly clear they don't give a shit about leftists and have given us a big fat middle finger. Do you think we're allies? Be honest. Just admit it already, you fucking hate us.

This is what I'm talking about. Y'all end up calling folks like Endus and I "liberals" despite the fact we are both manifestly socialist in our outlooks and have long post histories that are demonstrative of that.

Yeah, "liberals" are not your allies; because you're determined to make an enemy out of anyone that doesn't agree with you to the letter - so not only are liberals not your allies, you have no allies at all. It's RINO crap, just for a left-wing audience.

The Democrats are a big tent party and no matter how much y'all want it to be like the GOP, ideological uniformity doesn't jive with diversity.

[Flower Milk]

This is what I'm talking about. Y'all end up calling folks like Endus and I "liberals" despite the fact we are both manifestly socialist in our outlooks and have long post histories that are demonstrative of that.

Yeah, "liberals" are not your allies; because you're determined to make an enemy out of anyone that doesn't agree with you to the letter. It's RINO crap, just for a left-wing audience.

The Democrats are a big tent party and no matter how much y'all want it to be like the GOP, ideological uniformity doesn't jive with diversity.

So do you hate me then? You didn't answer my question.

[Elegiac]

So do you hate me then? You didn't answer my question.

Hate implies a level of care that exceeds nuisance value, so no.

"Hate" is reserved for malice, not ignorance.

[Flower Milk]

Hate implies a level of care that exceeds nuisance value, so no.

"Hate" is reserved for malice, not ignorance.

Do you hate leftists like me?

[Elegiac]

Do you hate leftists like me?

Considering I'm a leftist, no.

[Flower Milk]

Considering I'm a leftist, no.

Why are you arguing with me against Medicare for All then?

[Elegiac]

Why are you arguing with me against Medicare for All then?

Because the instruments of democratic government are at stake.

Biden means delayed M4A. Which sucks.
Trump means no M4A, and possibly no democracy in the US. Which is worse.

Y'all are annoying because you see both outcomes as equivalent when they manifestly are not.

[Belize]

Why are you arguing with me against Medicare for All then?

Because Biden and no M4A is better than Trump and no M4A.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand?

[Felya]

Why are you arguing with me against Medicare for All then?

Because Trump already claims that Biden supports Medicare for All... it’s why I keep asking you... Why should Biden devote any time to Medicare for all, when Trump’s whole strategy is to claim Biden does support it?

- - - Updated - - -

Because Biden and no M4A is better than Trump and no M4A.

It’s Biden and no M4A or Trump and M4A is a threat to American culture, western society and everything you love.

[Flower Milk]

Because Biden and no M4A is better than Trump and no M4A.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand?

Because the instruments of democratic government are at stake.

Biden means delayed M4A. Which sucks.
Trump means no M4A, and possibly no democracy in the US. Which is worse.

Y'all are annoying because you see both outcomes as equivalent when they manifestly are not.

Because no M4A means watching 68,000 people die needlessly every year for the crime of being too poor to afford healthcare. I can't accept that no matter who wins the election. I can't accept just letting thousands of people die every year in the name of incremental progress. I don't give up on supporting Medicare for All and argue with people against it just because Biden is the nominee.

And I know you probably disagree, but I still think Biden will lose the election due to left leaning Independents/younger voters not showing up for him because he doesn't support Medicare for All. I guess we'll find out in November.

[Belize]

Because no M4A means watching 68,000 people die needlessly every year for the crime of being too poor to afford healthcare.

And Trump means watching 200+K die

Your call.

[Felya]

And I know you probably disagree, but I still think Biden will lose the election due to left leaning Independents/younger voters not showing up for him because he doesn't support Medicare for All. I guess we'll find out in November.

I will ask again... Why is Trump running on Biden supporting Medicare for All?

[Belize]

And I know you probably disagree, but I still think Biden will lose the election due to left leaning Independents/younger voters not showing up for him because he doesn't support Medicare for All. I guess we'll find out in November.

Maybe if people like you went to vote, that wouldn't be an issue huh?

[Elegiac]

Because no M4A means watching 68,000 people die needlessly every year for the crime of being too poor to afford healthcare.

That's nice. Now do how many people would die under another four years of Trump. Because we're up to several times that number over the last term.

I cannot take statements to the effect of "68,000 people die needlessly" as being made from a serious place of concern when it's put into perspective of far more dying under the present alternative, let alone the possible future. All it seems like is holdover bitching from losing the primary.

[Felya]

Because no M4A means watching 68,000 people die needlessly every year for the crime of being too poor to afford healthcare.

Here is Biden’s plan:
https://joebiden.com/healthcare/

Here is Trump’s:

Now tell me that you care about people getting healthcare. Tell me you care, when Trump defunds the pandemic response, that was implemented with Biden as VP. Tell me more about how much you care, as you ignore 180000 dead to covid due to Trump’s incompetence. How many more?

- - - Updated - - -

That's nice. Now do how many people would die under another four years of Trump. Because we're up to several times that number over the last term.

I cannot take statements to the effect of "68,000 people die needlessly" as being made from a serious place of concern when it's put into perspective of far more dying under the present alternative, let alone the possible future. All it seems like is holdover bitching from losing the primary.

Biden claims his plan will cover over 97% of Americans... Trump’s will cover 0... Yet... they care...

Edit: Just to make it clear, Biden isn’t the one trying to convince the public that Medicare for all is the downfall of America. If you want Medicare for All, might want to go after the guy creating a new red scare centered around it.

[Elegiac]

Biden claims his plan will cover 97% of Americans... Trump’s will cover 0... Yet... they care...

No, but you see my position is unassailable because I can keep citing the death toll.

M4A is like an HIV vaccine, except we have a ton of people saying that antivirals are just as bad as living with untreated HIV and you're a horrible person if you try to make antivirals more accessible rather than supporting a vaccine because Gilead holds the Truvada patent (even though they aren't mutually exclusive positions and it's a non sequitur anyway).

But for some reason unless we keep repeating that "an HIV vaccine is good, Actually" as a disclaimer on every post, we're pro-HIV. I guess.

[Sunseeker]

Maybe if people like you went to vote, that wouldn't be an issue huh?

Right? I mean, I don't like Biden as a candidate, he's probably my 3rd or 4th pick, but ya know, this is the goddamned bus, and I still need to get downtown. I ain't gonna get there bitching about how the bus is kinda old and smelly.

Any "left leaning" or "independent" voter who's perfectly happy to fuck everyone(either lightly fucking by staying home/voting 3rd party or anal fisting the country by voting Trump instead) because they're not being personally catered to doesn't deserve to be courted.

Biden ain't great, but he's the bus. Get on the goddamned bus and get into town. The choice for anyone not solidly Republican this election is "the guy you can live with" and "the guy you can't". Do you pick the roommate who actively shits in the kitchen sink, or the one who won't help you buy a new dishwasher, but otherwise contributes to the general maintenance of the house like a rational adult?

[Benggaul]

Because no M4A means watching 68,000 people die needlessly every year for the crime of being too poor to afford healthcare. I can't accept that no matter who wins the election. I can't accept just letting thousands of people die every year in the name of incremental progress.

THIS is why I keep calling bullshit.

How many people have already been hurt and left dead and dying thanks to the Trump administration? Even discounting COVID-19, Trump's policies and lack of action on important issues has caused irreparable damage. MANY MORE WILL BE HURT AND/OR DIE UNDER TRUMP. If you ACTUALLY gave a fuck about other people you would see that to save as many as possible Trump needs to go NOW instead of four years from now and stop your fucking concern trolling over Biden. You want to die on the M4A hill? Fine, that's your prerogative. But trying to claim the moral high ground by saying "b-b-but people will die" when it's fucking CERTAIN it will be so much worse under Trump is what makes your argument null and void.

[Felya]

Do you pick the roommate who actively shits in the kitchen sink, or the one who won't help you buy a new dishwasher, but otherwise contributes to the general maintenance of the house like a rational adult?

The roommate that shits, because you believe in 4 years, the landlord will have to replace everything. Savings!

As stupid as the above sounds, that is the logic...