Anti High End Mentality

[kamuimac]

Others already told me about stuff i forgot like valor points etc.

But i think it has never been easier to get a weapon. You have Normal and heroic like always. No changes there. On top of it you have WQ witch scale with you. So even if your weapon is still 350 but the rest of your gear is at 420 the WQ will give you something you need. And emissary.

Equipping your char has never been easier. Which is a whole problem in itself. Thankfully they address that in SL.

this is only semi-truth - for example my hunter is 454 atm - and still runing with 435 weapon and 420 trinkets - why ? because its complete rng whether weapon emmisary will even spawn - and in eu we havent seen one on horde for almost 1,5 month now - same with tortolans - it first has to be their cache - then whther its trinket/ring - and then whether its trinket.

so no its not that easy to gear up in gear that you want via emmisaries alone.

[Advent]

I blame the high end for causing their own problems and then begging Blizzard to save them from themselves. Things like split runs, feeling obligated to do everything for the sake of their "team", and then hating the game for it. Take some responsibility for your choices. You don't see athletes complaining about having to wake up at the crack of dawn to work out and keep themselves in peak condition to "compete". If you don't like that aspect of being part of the min/max high end crowd, then leave. It's that simple.

[VinceVega]

this is only semi-truth - for example my hunter is 454 atm - and still runing with 435 weapon and 420 trinkets - why ? because its complete rng whether weapon emmisary will even spawn - and in eu we havent seen one on horde for almost 1,5 month now - same with tortolans - it first has to be their cache - then whther its trinket/ring - and then whether its trinket.

so no its not that easy to gear up in gear that you want via emmisaries alone.

Well ok if you ONLY do emissaries it is difficult... but that means completely ignoring any other PvE.

That is a conscious decision. If i play, lets say roller-coaster tycoon and i do not build any roller-coasters, for whatever reason, it is still playable without a problem. Harder nonetheless.

[Laughingjack]

I blame the high end for causing their own problems and then begging Blizzard to save them from themselves. Things like split runs, feeling obligated to do everything for the sake of their "team", and then hating the game for it. Take some responsibility for your choices. You don't see athletes complaining about having to wake up at the crack of dawn to work out and keep themselves in peak condition to "compete". If you don't like that aspect of being part of the min/max high end crowd, then leave. It's that simple.

I mean... they never asked for blizzard to help them.

They asked for blizzard to stop shoving shitty grinds and rng into gearing,

[Echocho]

I think the high end community are responsible for a lot of the homogenization we've seen over the years because they can't stand imbalance or not being optimal.

The covenant abilities are a perfect example of this. We finally get a RPG element that allows one character to permanently be different from another but the high end community will bitch and moan until it's just another bland talent row that can be switched every trash pack.

If anything we need more permanent choices like in proper RPGs. And no if permanent choices are purely cosmetic they don't mean anything.

[Advent]

I mean... they never asked for blizzard to help them.

They asked for blizzard to stop shoving shitty grinds and rng into gearing,

I was paying very close attention in Cata and MoP when people were asking Blizzard to "fix" split runs so they didn't have to do it. The goal posts moved based on what system Blizzard implemented for the game but the argument is basically unchanged. They want to reach for the stars, but don't want to be part of training to get and stay there. I don't think developers should be trying to reign in deviant behavior in an MMO because that's kind of the point. YOU are supposed to be the master of your adventure, whatever form that takes, and you should be aware and responsible enough to take a step back when you're not enjoying yourself anymore. Not demand the game change for everyone else because you and the community you surround yourself with have no self control.

That's all.

[NineSpine]

I mean... they never asked for blizzard to help them.

They asked for blizzard to stop shoving shitty grinds and rng into gearing,

The min-max crowd is collectively losing their minds over having to pick a covenant. They constantly demand that any semblance of meaningful choice is removed from the game.

[bloodykiller86]

Timewalking, transmog, mounts, pets, and achievements/meta-achievements say hi.

mostly worthless, mythic+ makes a bunch of content that is usually invalidated after the first raid become useful

[Sorrior]

Others already told me about stuff i forgot like valor points etc.

But i think it has never been easier to get a weapon. You have Normal and heroic like always. No changes there. On top of it you have WQ witch scale with you. So even if your weapon is still 350 but the rest of your gear is at 420 the WQ will give you something you need. And emissary.

Equipping your char has never been easier. Which is a whole problem in itself. Thankfully they address that in SL.

That is the rng part weapon emmissaries are very rare as are weapon wqs.

As for normal/heroic not everyone wants to run those and in the past that didn't stop you from getting a semi decent weapon if you sought one. Be it crafters or catch up 5 mans.

There also wasn't such an obscene ilv gap between content which i personally think is also a big mistake(not a gap in general just how massive it is in wow right now)

- - - Updated - - -

this is only semi-truth - for example my hunter is 454 atm - and still runing with 435 weapon and 420 trinkets - why ? because its complete rng whether weapon emmisary will even spawn - and in eu we havent seen one on horde for almost 1,5 month now - same with tortolans - it first has to be their cache - then whther its trinket/ring - and then whether its trinket.

so no its not that easy to gear up in gear that you want via emmisaries alone.

I feel like they should have some kind of rng protection if they must use this system where say once every 1-2 weeks a weapon is guranteed. As is i have seen two armor caches, 3-4 azerote and one or two gold in a single week..

The other option is to pull an 8.2 and offer at least a starter one via quests.

The rest is complete rng..or go pvping which if alliance will take awhile and alot of deaths

[potis]

this is only semi-truth - for example my hunter is 454 atm - and still runing with 435 weapon and 420 trinkets - why ? because its complete rng whether weapon emmisary will even spawn - and in eu we havent seen one on horde for almost 1,5 month now - same with tortolans - it first has to be their cache - then whther its trinket/ring - and then whether its trinket.

so no its not that easy to gear up in gear that you want via emmisaries alone.

Or you could have a group, shocking i know! Of people that you can play with, do joke content for 454 ilvl, which is +10s and get an upgrade eventually in no time.

Arent you people tired of blaming the game for everything?

[Kolvarg]

Or you could have a group, shocking i know! Of people that you can play with, do joke content for 454 ilvl, which is +10s and get an upgrade eventually in no time.

Or the game could have a better reward system.

[Laughingjack]

I was paying very close attention in Cata and MoP when people were asking Blizzard to "fix" split runs so they didn't have to do it. The goal posts moved based on what system Blizzard implemented for the game but the argument is basically unchanged. They want to reach for the stars, but don't want to be part of training to get and stay there. I don't think developers should be trying to reign in deviant behavior in an MMO because that's kind of the point. YOU are supposed to be the master of your adventure, whatever form that takes, and you should be aware and responsible enough to take a step back when you're not enjoying yourself anymore. Not demand the game change for everyone else because you and the community you surround yourself with have no self control.

That's all.

I don't know of guilds beyond the top then that run splits... there could be more its been years since i played at that level but if the design was to stop split runs they failed at a utterly absurd level....

I still have no desire for shitty grinds and rng. BFA isn't going to be remembered fondly because in extreme cases some specs had HALF of their TOTAL damage done by random procs outside of their control.

[Dazmalak]

Min-Maxers ruin everything they touch. They've been a plague on many a tabletop RPG I've played in as well. If you aren't playing it their way, then you aren't playing the game "right", and are therefore a waste of space. That tends to be their general attitude, anyway.

High end players tend to be Min-Maxers. I don't think it's that people are against high end content, it's just against the people that do high end content that seem to have no problem thumbing their noses at anyone beneath them (which is everyone not playing optimally like they do). I see plenty of that arrogance and complete lack of self-awareness here on these forums.

WoW didn't start as a hardcore game in any facet aside from time investment. Since then time investment has been replaced with difficulty. I think what most players are looking for is a relaxing way to kill time, get loot, and unwind from life; not smash their computer monitors from frustration over dealing with repetitive "challenging" content that has replaced the more slow and steady grind of yore (weapon skills, profession farming, leveling, etc). A lot of players also aren't really intrigued by repeating the same thing over and over again. Isn't that why we got rid of daily quests and replaced them with world quests?

On a side note, I think having all these difficulties is a major problem in general because it creates a greater disparity between the upper tier players vs the lesser tier ones. 15 ilvls per tier and 4 tiers of raid difficulty...60 ilvls worth of power difference is just silly. I'd prefer something a little more clearcut like FF14. 2 modes, regular and hard. Have maybe a 15 ilvls worth of difference. I'm all for better players getting better loot, but it doesn't need to be miles ahead like it has been.

[Laughingjack]

The min-max crowd is collectively losing their minds over having to pick a covenant. They constantly demand that any semblance of meaningful choice is removed from the game.

No... we are warning people its going to be shit. We know that 80% of classes and specs give or take are going to go with their "best" covenant and then blizzard is going to fuck around with the numbers and its going to become a grindy train wreck. Just like every other system like this.

[Mirishka]

mostly worthless, mythic+ makes a bunch of content that is usually invalidated after the first raid become useful

Tons of people run non-mythic dungeons for the reasons I outlined. Whether or not *you* think they are worthless is irrelevant.

[potis]

Or the game could have a better reward system.

Lol, you mean the game where you max out in gear in less than 5 hours if you are playing at a half-competent level because the same way you gear other alts, they can gear yours?

The game is lacking in some things, because of all the crybabies, WoW ended up as it is by the insane crybabies, gearing is insanely fast, assuming you dont believe LFR is an actual difficulty.

- - - Updated - - -

On a side note, I think having all these difficulties is a major problem in general because it creates a greater disparity between the upper tier players vs the lesser tier ones. 15 ilvls per tier and 4 tiers of raid difficulty...60 ilvls worth of power difference is just silly. I'd prefer something a little more clearcut like FF14. 2 modes, regular and hard. Have maybe a 15 ilvls worth of difference. I'm all for better players getting better loot, but it doesn't need to be miles ahead like it has been.

They had this for multiple expansions, do you know what happens?

A minority of people past the 1% of the actual players that is actually playing the game as they should, finally reaches close to that point and then they cry that there is nothing to do because they dont want or can, or whatever is their reason to raid to get better gear, that minority was ignored because up until then, they were very few and they got lost in the spam.

Until they took so long to release a new expansion and provided catch up gear (This is basically WoTLK) that the majority after so many months finally reached the same point, not having anything to do other than raid, and the insane crying started.

You cant have 2 difficulties in this iteration of the game, after so long of catering to the crybabies that want items without doing anything.

Or they are gonna change the "difficulty" into something that the 95% cant do, and you are gonna have, tears, lots and lots of tears.

The 99% believe LFR/Normal/HC and anything up to M+12 or so is "challenging".

[Kolvarg]

Lol, you mean the game where you max out in gear in less than 5 hours if you are playing at a half-competent level because the same way you gear other alts, they can gear yours?

The game is lacking in some things, because of all the crybabies, WoW ended up as it is by the insane crybabies, gearing is insanely fast, assuming you dont believe LFR is an actual difficulty.

I'll have what you're having, seems fun.

[Nobleshield]

Min-Maxers ruin everything they touch. They've been a plague on many a tabletop RPG I've played in as well. If you aren't playing it their way, then you aren't playing the game "right", and are therefore a waste of space. That tends to be their general attitude, anyway.

High end players tend to be Min-Maxers. I don't think it's that people are against high end content, it's just against the people that do high end content that seem to have no problem thumbing their noses at anyone beneath them (which is everyone not playing optimally like they do). I see plenty of that arrogance and complete lack of self-awareness here on these forums.

WoW didn't start as a hardcore game in any facet aside from time investment. Since then time investment has been replaced with difficulty. I think what most players are looking for is a relaxing way to kill time, get loot, and unwind from life; not smash their computer monitors from frustration over dealing with repetitive "challenging" content that has replaced the more slow and steady grind of yore (weapon skills, profession farming, leveling, etc). A lot of players also aren't really intrigued by repeating the same thing over and over again. Isn't that why we got rid of daily quests and replaced them with world quests?

On a side note, I think having all these difficulties is a major problem in general because it creates a greater disparity between the upper tier players vs the lesser tier ones. 15 ilvls per tier and 4 tiers of raid difficulty...60 ilvls worth of power difference is just silly. I'd prefer something a little more clearcut like FF14. 2 modes, regular and hard. Have maybe a 15 ilvls worth of difference. I'm all for better players getting better loot, but it doesn't need to be miles ahead like it has been.

Oh man I could not agree with this more. Absolutely spot on. The min maxers turn everything into "X is the best and if you take anything else you're a bad player" no matter what it is. They are completely incapable of seeing anything other than a finite set of numbers indicating how worthy something is to pick, everything else be damned.

They're a big part of the problem with games today.

[Advent]

I don't know of guilds beyond the top then that run splits... there could be more its been years since i played at that level but if the design was to stop split runs they failed at a utterly absurd level....

I still have no desire for shitty grinds and rng. BFA isn't going to be remembered fondly because in extreme cases some specs had HALF of their TOTAL damage done by random procs outside of their control.

Blizzard never did bail out the high end players from having to do split runs, at least, not deliberately. Some still do, but I believe the multi-layered systems meant to engage the average player with meaningful progression (Artifact/Azerite Power, Titanforging/Warforging, essences, etc...) had a hand in discouraging that behavior.

I understand that you have a lack of interest in the current game's systems, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on why BFA won't be remembered fondly. In my eyes, it's because class design was the weakest it's ever been. The people I see in-game don't seem to really care much if something war/titanforges/corrupts. Even bringing up that people are upset about it is met with confusion, because we see it the way the developers intended: A bonus, not the end goal.

[Nobleshield]

Blizzard never did bail out the high end players from having to do split runs, at least, not deliberately. Some still do, but I believe the multi-layered systems meant to engage the average player with meaningful progression (Artifact/Azerite Power, Titanforging/Warforging, essences, etc...) had a hand in discouraging that behavior.

I understand that you have a lack of interest in the current game's systems, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on why BFA won't be remembered fondly. In my eyes, it's because class design was the weakest it's ever been. The people I see in-game don't seem to really care much if something war/titanforges/corrupts. Even bringing up that people are upset about it is met with confusion, because we see it the way the developers intended: A bonus, not the end goal.

Then the problem is that it's seen as a goal and not a bonus. If an item doesn't Titanforge it's bad. If it gets corruption but not the "right" corruption it's useless. That is the problem. The mindset is it has to be 100% perfect or it's garbage. And you know what causes that? The min-maxers.