Anti High End Mentality

[Osmeric]

I rather not just go in the circle of "we don't have the numbers" even when we have the numbers. Look there isn't any proof opening the game up to a larger audience actually increased its audience.

And I'd rather not accept the BS that "subs were increasing, therefore everything was rainbows and unicorns". Do you deny that players were leaving even in Vanilla? Or do you think that increasing subs means there are zero quits?

[Laughingjack]

And I'd rather not accept the BS that "subs were increasing, therefore everything was rainbows and unicorns". Do you deny that players were leaving even in Vanilla? Or do you think that increasing subs means there are zero quits?

I think that when you have a four year old game still gaining active players to the point where it isn't only stable but growing you were doing something better then when you are just bleeding subs.

The game wasn't perfect and not everything added after was awful but it is painfully clear they badly misread the market at the time and arguably still are.

You want to know what annoys me most about BFA? Content wise... raids and dungeons its the best its ever been or close to depending on opinion. You want to know what bfa is going to be remembered as? One of the worst expansions. Why? Because blizzard felt the overwhelming desire to make changes to the games core systems that I honestly believe few wanted.

The gcd change, azerite,essences. corruption. All of this to chase after a type of player that I personally think is ethereal in nature.

[Sorrior]

Back in VP days the gear was also limited

Yeah but there wasn't

A an insane ilv gap

B we got to pick our upgrades

And c it let you do literally anything and you still made progress

[Revamp Man]

Yeah but there wasn't

A an insane ilv gap

B we got to pick our upgrades

And c it let you do literally anything and you still made progress

Well currently the only gap between gear that you can get from quest staying and doing the world quest emissaries is whatever gap there is between normal and Heroic

And example is right now if you only do your emissaries you can get a full set of 445 gear which is normal raiding Take into account the fact that it will scale throughout the entire expansion it’s already better than valor points

I mean right now as much as I hate to say it it’s probably easier to get high gear as a casual than it has been in the past

[Kolvarg]

I rather not just go in the circle of "we don't have the numbers" even when we have the numbers. Look there isn't any proof opening the game up to a larger audience actually increased its audience.

It is entirely true that we don't have all the numbers. We do know the reported total number of subscribers at certain specific dates, but we don't know how many accounts stopped subscribing and how many new accounts subscribed or existing accounts re-subscribed.

For instance, if at date A there were 6.5M subscribers, and at date B there were 7M, it is entirely possible that the game lost 0.5M subsribers, but gained 1M new ones.

On WoW's 10th anniversary, blizzard release this infographic where they made it public that WoW has had over 100M unique accounts by then. When the highest number of concurrent subscribers never surpassed 12.5M. Many people stopped playing WoW ever since it came out.

I think that when you have a four year old game still gaining active players to the point where it isn't only stable but growing you were doing something better then when you are just bleeding subs.

What exactly is surprising about a game growing after its introduction, and declining after its maturity?

How many games do you know that are still actively at their peak and/or growing after 16 years?

Because it seems quite a normal trend to me.

[Laughingjack]

It is entirely true that we don't have all the numbers. We do know the reported total number of subscribers at certain specific dates, but we don't know how many accounts stopped subscribing and how many new accounts subscribed or existing accounts re-subscribed.

For instance, if at date A there were 6.5M subscribers, and at date B there were 7M, it is entirely possible that the game lost 0.5M subsribers, but gained 1M new ones.

On WoW's 10th anniversary, blizzard release this infographic where they made it public that WoW has had over 100M unique accounts by then. When the highest number of concurrent subscribers never surpassed 12.5M. Many people stopped playing WoW ever since it came out.



What exactly is surprising about a game growing after its introduction, and declining after its maturity?

How many games do you know that are still actively at their peak and/or growing after 16 years?

Because it seems quite a normal trend to me.

Oldschool runescape that has been on a slow upward tick since going mobile...

[Kolvarg]

Oldschool runescape that has been on a slow upward tick since going mobile...

So, just one?

And not even because of any design or content changes, just being introduced to a new platform and essentially massively increasing its potential audience.

[Laughingjack]

So, just one?

And not even because of any design or content changes, just being introduced to a new platform and essentially massively increasing its potential audience.

I mean its had content updates for longer then wow... its a pretty easy one to one comparison.

[Kolvarg]

I mean its had content updates for longer then wow... its a pretty easy one to one comparison.

You've stated yourself it wasn't the content updates that made the upward trend start.

[Laughingjack]

You've stated yourself it wasn't the content updates that made the upward trend start.

Well no it was its gold farmers being the most profitable profession in Venezuela that made it grow the mobile made it explode.

[Kolvarg]

Well no it was its gold farmers being the most profitable profession in Venezuela that made it grow the mobile made it explode.

So, in conclusion: External factors have more influence in a game's popularity/success than the game itself.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The only thing the high end did was set expectations way to high to people that have no business having them. In my alts guild we raided heroic primarily and a little mythic as the tier died down. But people would quit the game, seriously, when like Method or Limit cleared the content. Why? They were bitching it was taking the guild to long to kill the content. It is almost every tier. Like clock work there.

[Sorrior]

Well currently the only gap between gear that you can get from quest staying and doing the world quest emissaries is whatever gap there is between normal and Heroic

And example is right now if you only do your emissaries you can get a full set of 445 gear which is normal raiding Take into account the fact that it will scale throughout the entire expansion it’s already better than valor points

I mean right now as much as I hate to say it it’s probably easier to get high gear as a casual than it has been in the past

You are missing the heavy rng factor in regards to emissaries

[kamuimac]

Well currently the only gap between gear that you can get from quest staying and doing the world quest emissaries is whatever gap there is between normal and Heroic

And example is right now if you only do your emissaries you can get a full set of 445 gear which is normal raiding Take into account the fact that it will scale throughout the entire expansion it’s already better than valor points

I mean right now as much as I hate to say it it’s probably easier to get high gear as a casual than it has been in the past

VP loot was equal to what is hc raiding - so in order for emmisaries system the loot obtainable from them would have to be 460+ in order to be better then VP gear

its objectively worse

[Shaetha]

But really it seems on this forum, the 1% are the ppl causing a shitstorm. For that "casual" majority who does NOT raid high end or pushes high mythic key, it should not matter how closely balanced covenant abilities are. Yet we keep getting these threads how "everyone" will chose only the "best" covenant for their specc after Icy Veins or some guild like Method has figured out what it is.

It's not actually the top 1% that do that. It's the wannabes that think only the thing the chart says is the best is viable and then struggle to clear normal that are the ones that do almost all the shitstorming.

[Thundering]

Its more like the mentality at blizz too not do what the Alliance wants or likes...like ever and they wounder why so many quit.

[Revamp Man]

You are missing the heavy rng factor in regards to emissaries

It’s the same orangey factor that happens in the weekly mythic cash and with boss drops the only difference is that unlike when you kill a boss and Raid you’re guaranteed gear from that emissary

- - - Updated - - -

VP loot was equal to what is hc raiding - so in order for emmisaries system the loot obtainable from them would have to be 460+ in order to be better then VP gear

its objectively worse

Valor point gear at least back in mists was not equal to heroic gear

[Advent]

Valor point gear at least back in mists was not equal to heroic gear

Technically valor gear back then was normal mode, which is today's heroic, so he's not completely incorrect. Today's normal is basically what 10man was back in Wrath, which was called "Flex mode" in MoP. Blizzard was basically trying to bring back "Beer league" 10man from WoW's heyday.

[Revamp Man]

Technically valor gear back then was normal mode, which is today's heroic, so he's not completely incorrect. Today's normal is basically what 10man was back in Wrath, which was called "Flex mode" in MoP. Blizzard was basically trying to bring back "Beer league" 10man from WoW's heyday.

I mean yeah so in that case all characters have access to flex mode gear right now

I want to say that the new craftable gear will be heroic level without open of pain in the ass like we’ve had for this expansion

I really want to be able to keep my alts at the point that they are right now may be a little higher which for the seven that I have is about 447 average

[kooield]

I cannot answer that for you (why people think that way) - but anything in the game over the last 12 years according to this forum has "destroyed" (or ruined or killed) WoW. Be it flying, elitists, casuals, toxic ppl, several difficulties, time gating, dailies, AP, legendaries for everyone...etc. Whatever you can think off, I swear somebody made a thread how it ruined the game.