Necromancer fans: What are you looking for in a Necromancer class?

[Teriz]

We've had this discussion for awhile now, and through all the back and forth, I'm really wondering what exactly are Necromancer fans desiring that isn't already available to them in the form of Warlocks and Death Knights.

Supposedly, Necromancers were planned for WoW, but in an effort to distinguish themselves from Everquest, Blizzard opted to create the Warlock instead. If you REALLY look at Warlocks, you can definitely see a lot of Necromancer influence there. The key difference is that Warlocks are demonic and use more fire magic, whereas Necromancers would use undead magic and have frost-based abilities.

However, that is where the Death Knight comes in. The Death Knight is a hybrid class that has melee and ranged abilities. A spell knight of sorts that has the abilities of the both the Necromancer and Lich from WC3 and can summon multiple undead minions in combat. While some people have an issue with a melee Necromancer, Blizzard has a history of utilizing melee Necromancers in their games. Xul from Heroes of the Storm and attributes of the Necromancer from D3 being the most recent examples.

So with that being said, Necromancer fans: what can a Necromancer do that a Warlock and a DK can't do? What is it about the Necromancer that makes you desire this class so much?

[Stormbreed]

We've had this discussion for awhile now, and through all the back and forth, I'm really wondering what exactly are Necromancer fans desiring that isn't already available to them in the form of Warlocks and Death Knights.

Supposedly, Necromancers were planned for WoW, but in an effort to distinguish themselves from Everquest, Blizzard opted to create the Warlock instead. If you REALLY look at Warlocks, you can definitely see a lot of Necromancer influence there. The key difference is that Warlocks are demonic and use more fire magic, whereas Necromancers would use undead magic and have frost-based abilities.

However, that is where the Death Knight comes in. The Death Knight is a hybrid class that has melee and ranged abilities. A spell knight of sorts that has the abilities of the both the Necromancer and Lich from WC3 and can summon multiple undead minions in combat. While some people have an issue with a melee Necromancer, Blizzard has a history of utilizing melee Necromancers in their games. Xul from Heroes of the Storm and attributes of the Necromancer from D3 being the most recent examples.

So with that being said, Necromancer fans: what can a Necromancer do that a Warlock and a DK can't do? What is it about the Necromancer that makes you desire this class so much?

I'd like it to take the place of Warlock and DH, I think we should trim the classes down to 5. Easier to balance, with more choices of skills.

[Chickat]

U holy dk with 1-2 dots,Death coil filler cast, an aoe drain life type cast, lots of undead minions. Corpse explosions. Minions have an aoe aura around them so the more minions you have the more aoe damage you do.

[Omedon]

Current demonology gameplay with undead visuals. That would literally do it for me. If it wasn't simply a reskin, a lean toward less upkeep of undead presence and more "the horde of skeletons is always there, your rotation just buffs them, and your talents vary them."

Depending on how deep they go on the forthcoming features to filter out other players' spell effects, they could really do some crazy stuff with a necromancer class!

[Saltysquidoon]

Ghostcrawler is on record saying the preposed necromancer class was rolled into the DK in wrath, Unholy plays more like a necromancer now then it ever has in the past (legion and BFA have both pushed it further from dots to pets).

I know it's not the cloth boy you all want but it might be time to snap back to reality here folks.

[Triceron]

Class reskins with flavour through talents would be ideal. Some core mechanics could be tweaked to suit flavour, otherwise keep it in the same vein as Warlock specs so that any future balance changes can be easily applied to both.

Maybe a new subclass would get 3 reskinned specs from different existing classes, like a Necro takes Demonology (Necromancy) from Warlock, Priest's Shadow spec, and Monk's Mistweaver (Essence) which gives them a life channeling healing spec. Other subclasses can follow in this example, creating new subclasses with new themes out of existing specs.

In some special cases, one spec can be used to introduce new gameplay that helps define them more from the rest, otherwise the entire premise is all about adding more options and flavour to the game, just like Allied races do for race options.

[Powerogue]

If there's one thing I miss from death knights, it's the self-rez ability that turns you into a zombie. That was great.

Giving all death knights zombie followers is a good step. Army of the Dead too would be great, though giving something back to keep unholy feeling special in that department would be a necessity by that point.

[schwank05]

I'd like it to take the place of Warlock and DH, I think we should trim the classes down to 5. Easier to balance, with more choices of skills.

At first glance I was like what an idiotic comment this is. Then I got to actually thinking of it and you know what I think I can totally get behind this idea. Basically have 5 classes and mold all other classes/ abilities into them. You could easily mold Warrior, DK, and Pally into one class with all the abilities, Mage, Priest, Warlock, Shaman into another and Rogue, DH, Hunter, Monk, Druid could be rolled into one as well so you could arguable even do it in 3 classes. I agree it would be easier to balance as you would have a Melee/ Tank class, a Caster/ Magey class, and a Physical Damage class that can choose to shapeshift and tank as well.

[Saltysquidoon]

You could easily mold Warrior, DK, and Pally into one class with all the abilities, Mage, Priest, Warlock, Shaman into another and Rogue, DH, Hunter, Monk, Druid could be rolled into one as well so you could arguable even do it in 3 classes.

I guess enhancement shamans and balance and resto druids and MW monks can eat shit then?

[Shaetha]

At first glance I was like what an idiotic comment this is. Then I got to actually thinking of it and you know what I think I can totally get behind this idea. Basically have 5 classes and mold all other classes/ abilities into them. You could easily mold Warrior, DK, and Pally into one class with all the abilities, Mage, Priest, Warlock, Shaman into another and Rogue, DH, Hunter, Monk, Druid could be rolled into one as well so you could arguable even do it in 3 classes. I agree it would be easier to balance as you would have a Melee/ Tank class, a Caster/ Magey class, and a Physical Damage class that can choose to shapeshift and tank as well.

Play SW:TOR then. WoW is not that game.

[kansor]

- The idea that death knight is already a necromancer is false. Death knight has its own strong unique identity in its emphasis on runic magic and the elements of Frost, Blood, and Unholy.

- Only Unholy spec is necromancer-like, and it's to necromancer what old Demo lock was to demon hunter: a weak imitation wearing the wrong armor type.

- Unholy DK wouldn't even need as big of a change as was applied to Demo lock. Just get rid of Unholy's ghoul pet and tweak its abilities to focus more on plague, defiling, and decay.

- Necromancer vs DK would be similar to priest vs paladin, but even more distinct because DK has the rune/blood/frost theme to differentiate it.


As for distinguishing necromancer from warlock, and specifically demo lock, there are so many things you could do. The most obvious thing is the ability to raise dead corpses of enemies (and friends!) as minions. It would make SUCH a cool raid cooldown to have someone die but then you can raise them as a ghoul or something and then they get to play with 3 or 4 special buttons or whatever. Then, instead of using soul-shards, the necromancer would obviously have an Anima-based resource system. I don't want to do a wall of text here, the point is, the ideas are there for the taking and you would have to have a total lack of imagination not to see that.

[Kyphael]

Clothie spellcaster and prune the shit out of Affliction Warlock and Unholy DK to do it.

[Teriz]

Clothie spellcaster and prune the shit out of Affliction Warlock and Unholy DK to do it.

What abilities would you prune specifically?

[RumbleShakes]

Originally I wanted Necromancer to be its own class with 3 specs: Abomination which summons and augments one massive zombie, but we have that with Beastmastery Hunters; second specialization that would regenerate health at the expense of the caster or enemy but we have Discipline Priests; and lastly building an army of the undead which we kind of have with Demonology Warlock.

Current idea: add a new specialization to each class starting with...
Hunter: Frenzy spec allowing the hunter mark enemies and enrage their pet to tank but if the beast pet dies it leaps onto the Hunter and stuns them over 5 seconds dealing 99% of their maximum health.
Mage: Heat spec causing allies to heal through actions such as movement, attacking, and attacking a particular enemy.
Rogue: Weakening spec causing poisons to reduce damage done.
Warlock: Possession spec which causes the caster to tank after being possessed by a Voidwalker.
...next release a new specialization to semi-hybrid classes...
Death Knight: Flesh spec is similar to Unholy, however it raises a multitude of undead (~20) that do different things. Potentially change Unholy to a disease DoT class rather than DoT and minion.
Demon Hunter: Fel spec heals allies by sacrificing health, damage done, damage taken, or even healing taken by the caster.
Priest: Corrupt spec allows the Priest to bring forth corruption allowing them to either tank or melee DPS.
Shaman: Earthen spec uses a large Stoneclaw Totem that binds with the Shaman transfering damage taken allowing the caster to tank. Also able to augment the totem.
Warrior: Thrower spec allows the warrior to throw their weapon in boomerang fashion.
...lastly the hybrid classes...
Demon Hunter: Energies spec (not particular with name) casts spells at the enemy from points on the ground similar to eye beams.
Druid: Lifewarden spec can either be a caster or healer which summons a multitude of stationary plants similar to Animist from DAoC.
Monk: Chikeeper spec holds temporary spells to expend all at once similar to the Warlock from DAoC.
Paladin: Exorcist spec is obviously a caster.

At this point Blizzard should keep adding a new specialization until every class has a heal, DPS, caster/ranged DPS, and tank spec, and potentially a minion master spec (if the lore is right).

[Selah]

While I'm not a huge advocate for the Necromancer, I do think it's addition would be a boon for the game.

How I'd like to see it implemented is a class that pairs well with the other casters on the cosmic forces chart. Right now we have mages who dwell in the domain of the arcane and order. Druids dwell in the realm of life and nature with just a touch of the arcane. Priests are dichotomous with one foot in the light and one foot in the void. Warlocks stand deep in the realm of the fel and tap into the void to help supplement their abilities. I think a necromancer would fit perfectly on this chart right in the realm of death, lightly tapping into the domain of void and converting the necromantic energies into life. Acting more like a conduit for energies to pass back and forth between death and life.

Play wise, two DPS specs, and one healing spec. The healing spec being focused on bringing ruin to their enemies and harvesting their suffering to bolster their allies. In more practical terms, the healing spec is based around afflicting hostiles with debuffs, and depending on which debuffs you have out, they would buff their own healing abilities in unique ways.

There's the mandatory pet spec, though I would argue that it should feel very different from demo. Could go for old school warlock feel where the necromancer uses their own blood to use their abilities. Each minion summoned takes a percentage of their health to summon, but once the minions start to do damage they start to heal the necromancer.

The last spec I would like to personally see linger in the realm of buffs/debuffs. Getting a host of abilities that intensify as they and their group become more injured, harvesting the suffering around them and creating power from it.

That's just me though.

[Aresk]

Corpses as a resource.
Buffs for other players with drawbacks.
Ranged/caster focus.
Slows.

I don't see DK doing half of that and warlock doing half of that. Hence, Necromancer could be its own thing.

[Kyphael]

What abilities would you prune specifically?

I have to get back to you on that. I'm at work so I can't open up a lot of links and don't recall all the talents off the top of my head.

[HateTrain]

I don't know that it would ever work. You'd have to gut Warlocks (again) and Unholy DKs to have anything close to a "classic" Necromancer. I think that ship has sailed and also crashed against the sea wall. I think the only real way this comes about is the often bandied about "Class Skins" but I think that has about a 3% chance of being a thing anyway. So the answer is, nothing. I am looking for nothing in a Necromancer class (in WoW).

[Snowfunk]

Just play Unholy DK.

[Stormbreed]

At first glance I was like what an idiotic comment this is. Then I got to actually thinking of it and you know what I think I can totally get behind this idea. Basically have 5 classes and mold all other classes/ abilities into them. You could easily mold Warrior, DK, and Pally into one class with all the abilities, Mage, Priest, Warlock, Shaman into another and Rogue, DH, Hunter, Monk, Druid could be rolled into one as well so you could arguable even do it in 3 classes. I agree it would be easier to balance as you would have a Melee/ Tank class, a Caster/ Magey class, and a Physical Damage class that can choose to shapeshift and tank as well.

This! People need to understsand how much better the game could be