Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Coniferous]

It can't.

If we're assessing how a reasonable person could have felt in Rittenhouse's position, we can only consider what information Rittenhouse had available to him.

Rittenhouse was not magically omniscient about all things Rosenbaum and it's ridiculous to try and pretend that he was.

Again, please try to read it this time:

It suggests how Rosenbaum was behaving.

[Mayhem]

It matters to the extent it informs us about how threatened a reasonable person would have felt being chased by Rosenbaum.

Your analogy is misleading.

No, it doesn't. It informs us about stuff that couldn't be part of Rittenhouse's decision process. It also doesn't change any of the stuff Rittenhouse did right after killing a person, namely calling neither medics nor the police but a friend and fleeing the scene.

You know, if you want to make the claim Rittenhouse was a reasonable person it's pretty damning if he didn't act reasonably at all.

[Coniferous]

That's not how facts work, Kellyanne.

Sure it is. Half the difficulty we have communicating across ideological lines comes from people who have gotten very skilled at presenting information in a way that is slanted in favor of their point of view.

There’s a gun violence example that goes something like “The US is in the bottom third of all countries in gun violence” vs. “The US has the most gun violence of any developed country, where both facts are true but people use the one that supports their narrative. Similar story with “77 cents on the dollar.”

[Endus]

Again, please try to read it this time:

It suggests how Rosenbaum was behaving.

Which isn't relevant to the case. The case is not prosecuting Rosenbaum. All that matters with regards to Rosenbaum's motivations is what Rittenhouse knew and could see. We can't reasonably consider anything else, and trying to insert that evidence into the record would generally be denied in a court proceeding, precisely because it's not relevant to the case, which isn't assessing Rosenbaum's state of mind.

Rosenbaum's not on posthumous trial here and you people really need to stop pretending that he is.

[Mayhem]

Again, please try to read it this time:

It suggests how Rosenbaum was behaving.

Ah, so you went from informs to suggests, well let's see where this is going.

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There’s a gun violence example that goes something like “The US is in the bottom third of all countries in gun violence” vs. “The US has the most gun violence of any developed country, where both facts are true but people use the one that supports their narrative. Similar story with “77 cents on the dollar.”

Oooh please, post both sources for the gun violence stuff in the gun control thread, I'd love to read them.

[Coniferous]

Ah, so you went from informs to suggests, well let's see where this is going.

Oh my god, I varied my verb choice. Keep going, you’ve got me now!

[Elegiac]

Sure it is. Half the difficulty we have communicating across ideological lines comes from people who have gotten very skilled at presenting information in a way that is slanted in favor of their point of view.

There’s a gun violence example that goes something like “The US is in the bottom third of all countries in gun violence” vs. “The US has the most gun violence of any developed country, where both facts are true but people use the one that supports their narrative."

Still waiting for the fact where the US is the worst of the developed world is somehow a redeeming factoid that indicates there isn't a plague of gun violence. Rofl.

Get off Facebook, dude. It rots your brain.

[Mayhem]

Oh my god, I varied my verb choice. Keep going, you’ve got me now!

Well, the second one was more true to what you were doing so I'll stick with that.

Suggest some stuff that might have happened = facts

ok bud

[Coniferous]

Well, the second one was more true to what you were doing so I'll stick with that.

Suggest some stuff that might have happened = facts

ok bud

That’s not what I did. I said “this fact suggests” not “this suggestion is a fact”…

I was really looking forward to you unraveling my whole case based on the difference between informs and suggests, guess I have to lower my expectations now.

[PhaelixWW]

We don't need anything to suggest how he was acting; we have video. The only reason you're trying to bring it up is because you think it will make people feel like he deserved to die.

That's not how the justice system works.

[Micfeind]

You are basically saying it's okay to go to an area where you "feel endangered" under the guise of protecting property strapped with a rifle and start unloading onto people indiscriminately then claiming self defense.
Thats a worrying mindset for one to try to maintain.

[Mayhem]

That’s not what I did. I said “this fact suggests” not “this suggestion is a fact”…

I was really looking forward to you unraveling my whole case based on the difference between informs and suggests, guess I have to lower my expectations now.

No, you didn't. It was your intention to frame the facts in a different light at least by your own words.

This is also the first time you wrote "this fact suggests" so I am not quite sure how you can say that is what you said.

[Coniferous]

Still waiting for the fact where the US is the worst of the developed world is somehow a redeeming factoid that indicates there isn't a plague of gun violence. Rofl.

Get off Facebook, dude. It rots your brain.

You… really have trouble understanding my posts don’t you? I was making a point about how people use different facts that are cherry-picked for their point of view. I wasn’t saying anything about my position I. guns.

Every time, man, your posts are so confused…

[Elegiac]

You… really have trouble understanding my posts don’t you? I was making a point about how people use different facts that are cherry-picked for their point of view.

And then proceeded to post bullshit that is not actually contrary to the point gun control advocates are making beyond some claptrap about "well Somalia is worse than the US so maybe both sides have a point" when... no, that's not how it works, sweetheart.

Centrism is a disease.

[Coniferous]

No, you didn't. It was your intention to frame the facts in a different light at least by your own words.

This is also the first time you wrote "this fact suggests" so I am not quite sure how you can say that is what you said.

I agree, it was my intention to show how the facts could be framed in a different light! But you said “suggest blah blah = fact”. That’s not what I was doing.

I’m glad we understand each other now.

[Mayhem]

You… really have trouble understanding my posts don’t you? I was making a point about how people use different facts that are cherry-picked for their point of view. I wasn’t saying anything about my position I. guns.

Every time, man, your posts are so confused…

One of those facts was also wrong, so you made a point by including something that's not true.

[Coniferous]

And then proceeded to post bullshit that is not actually contrary to the point gun control advocates are making beyond some claptrap about "well Somalia is worse than the US so maybe both sides have a point" when... no, that's not how it works, sweetheart.

Centrism is a disease.

Oh dear god, let me lay it out for you.

I agree the developed country fact is better, I was just thinking of a good example of facts being displayed in a different light. I’m not trying to get in an argument about gun control (I support it). Go back and read my initial post and replace “gun violence with” “purple bubblegum” and it still illustrates the point I’m trying to make.

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One of those facts was also wrong, so you made a point by including something that's not true.

What fact was wrong?

[Mayhem]

I agree, it was my intention to show how the facts could be framed in a different light! But you said “suggest blah blah = fact”. That’s not what I was doing.

I’m glad we understand each other now.

You brought up something that wasn't even part of the facts Endus listed. Man, you can't keep up with your own posts, do you?

[Elegiac]

I agree the developed country fact is better, I was just thinking of a good example of facts being displayed in a different light.

Except, again, there is no "different light". There is truth, and then there's distortion of facts for an agenda - much like y'all are doing to try and excuse Rittenhouse.

[Coniferous]

You brought up something that wasn't even part of the facts Endus listed. Man, you can't keep up with your own posts, do you?

Sure… he cherry picked the facts he wanted to mention, I cherry picked mine. You seem to think I’m somehow limited to only using what he wrote… not sure why.