Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Shalcker]

Speaking of Ritterhouse, seemed he is really going hard for the grift by now appearing as a 'hero' speaker at the far-right TPUSA conference.


So much for him not being on that side, huh?

Did any left conference invite him and he refused?

[JohnBrown1917]

Did any left conference invite him and he refused?

I don't think the US has any big far left conferences, and why would they invite somebody carrying water for fascists?

[Egomaniac]

And it does matter why they were called in, originally it was arguing with gunshots fired, then possible active shooter. Can police with certainty decide that a man assaulting a woman is not with the possible active shooter?

I would think when looking for an active shooter...you would look for a gun and not a bike chain. But that's just me.

but I do love the "I can't be certain you aren't an active shooter...so i'm going to shoot you just in case" defense.

[NineSpine]

Did any left conference invite him and he refused?

"Yeah I spoke at the Nazi conference, but the democrats didn't invite me so it's really their fault"

The party of personal responsibility everyone.

[Orange Joe]

"Yeah I spoke at the Nazi conference, but the democrats didn't invite me so it's really their fault"

The party of personal responsibility everyone.

Shalcker isn't American. He is a Russian shill.

[NineSpine]

Shalcker isn't American. He is a Russian shill.

Is there a difference between Russian shills and American conservatives anymore?

[Mayhem]

Is there a difference between Russian shills and American conservatives anymore?

Russian shills are better at talking english?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Is there a difference between Russian shills and American conservatives anymore?

One of those groups doesn't care whether they cause damage to the US.

[NineSpine]

One of those groups doesn't care whether they cause damage to the US.

Nah, not seeing that distinction either.

[cuafpr]

Completely disagree:

"In the videos, Ms. Potter is heard shouting that she was going to stun Mr. Wright with her Taser, but she had actually drawn her department-issued Glock. She yelled “Taser! Taser! Taser!” and pulled the trigger. Then, realizing that she had shot him instead, Ms. Potter shouted that she had grabbed the wrong weapon, collapsed to the ground and sobbed as she said she was going to go to prison."

Should she have been fired - absolutely. Thrown in jail for 7 years? What's the point of doing that, it was clearly a mistake. I know that's what manslaughter is for, but there's a big difference between a mistake made when acting recklessly as a private citizen and a mistake made when you're arresting a criminal who is resisting arrest and you're trying to protect your partner. I can't imagine anyone ever wanting to become a cop in these high crime cities in the first place.

Firing a cop is a significant punishment that is adequate deterrent in situations like that. There's no reason to go further.

I agree... a tragic accident due to mistakes on all sides, the suspects for resisting, and the officer for drawing the wrong weapon. it was obvious it was mistake. Should have been time served while on trial, fired/retired, and a settlement paid to the family (which is probably coming and will be more than it should be). I truly think the potential riots (not protest to be clear as protest are fine) had she been found not-guilty influenced the jury and that should not happen in any case.

edit: and yeah, no clue how they get cops these days. I came close to applying after my time in the USAF but no way I was going to deal wit what they deal with to start at 25-30k/year around here. If they paid cops a real salary it would probably help get quality officers which would solve other issues.

[Orange Joe]

I agree... a tragic accident due to mistakes on all sides, the suspects for resisting, and the officer for drawing the wrong weapon. it was obvious it was mistake. Should have been time served while on trial, fired/retired, and a settlement paid to the family (which is probably coming and will be more than it should be). I truly think the potential riots (not protest to be clear as protest are fine) had she been found not-guilty influenced the jury and that should not happen in any case.

edit: and yeah, no clue how they get cops these days. I came close to applying after my time in the USAF but no way I was going to deal wit what they deal with to start at 25-30k/year around here. If they paid cops a real salary it would probably help get quality officers which would solve other issues.

They make 63-78k in my area. So either you live in a small ass town where nothing ever happens. Or you are lying.

National average is 56k-65k.

https://www.indeed.com/career/police-officer/salaries
https://www.salary.com/research/sala...officer-salary

[Huehuecoyotl]

Nah, not seeing that distinction either.

The Russians care, they actively want to damage the US. The Republicans don't care if the US ends up damaged by their pursuit of power at all costs.

Sorry, I thought that was obvious.

[cuafpr]

They make 63-78k in my area. So either you live in a small ass town where nothing ever happens. Or you are lying.

National average is 56k-65k.

https://www.indeed.com/career/police-officer/salaries
https://www.salary.com/research/sala...officer-salary

was a smallish town, back in 2011/2012ish Just checked where I am now and glassdoor and zip recruiter show ranges of 30-70 and salary . com shows a higher min at 56k but same high end. I'm guessing those low ends are zero experience beat cops which is what I would have been, and nope anything less than 70 starting isn't worth what cops deal with.

strait from my local PD's website:
"The starting salary for the position of Police Officer I is $45,000. Career Ladder Program. This program allows officers to advance in rank and in..."

[Coniferous]

I agree... a tragic accident due to mistakes on all sides, the suspects for resisting, and the officer for drawing the wrong weapon. it was obvious it was mistake. Should have been time served while on trial, fired/retired, and a settlement paid to the family (which is probably coming and will be more than it should be). I truly think the potential riots (not protest to be clear as protest are fine) had she been found not-guilty influenced the jury and that should not happen in any case.

edit: and yeah, no clue how they get cops these days. I came close to applying after my time in the USAF but no way I was going to deal wit what they deal with to start at 25-30k/year around here. If they paid cops a real salary it would probably help get quality officers which would solve other issues.

Agreed. I think the current anti cop political climate is a motivating factor for all this. Unfortunately the anti cop people tend to focus on scapegoats instead of on bigger solutions like gun control that would make a difference. There is hope that the pendulum is about to swing back a bit though - New York's mayor is notably less anti cop than De Blasio, and San Francisco's mayor is investing in law and order.

I'm seeing the same anti authority trend fail in education - after years of allowing urban schools to operate as basically lawless environments where discipline is out of favor and staff is supposed to practice "restorative justice" - which is a nice, totally impractical idea that you can get to the root of behavior issues if you connect with the child emotionally, ending behavior problems - things are finally starting to swing the other way. At my old school they claimed it was working because the graduation rate rose from 75% to 95%, but this was accomplished not by improving performance but by lowering standards - academic, attendance, and behavioral - and the town is starting to realize that. The high performing kids are starting to slide as well because it's very difficult to learn in a classroom where other students are 5 grade levels below you and they misbehave all day. A lot of parents are starting to get fed up with all the focus on those low performing, misbehaving students at the expense of families who actually prioritize education (they were recently talking about reducing homework because it's unfair to certain populations or something). Coming out of the pandemic my local high school has experienced a serious uptick in violence and teachers are resigning in waves while parents are clamoring for things like metal detectors, and they want to bring back the small offsite campus for students with behavior problems who can't handle a big high school (that was dismantled a few years ago because it wasn't fair or something). Meanwhile the elementary schools in suburban areas of town have large vacancies because anyone who can afford it has moved to neighboring districts where they don't have these problems and you can actually get an education.

If you go 5 miles away you have high schools where 95% of students are at grade level and the education is vastly superior, so of course everyone is leaving because they're tired of urban leadership applying experimental social policies that are targeted at improving the performance of low performers at the expense of high performers.

I think it's still going to take a long while to play out, but eventually people are going to realize that a lot of the people being attacked - police and teachers - are not the enemies here, and that imagining that they can solve all society's problems by just doing better and relaxing standards of authority is hopelessly wishful thinking.

[Endus]

Agreed. I think the current anti cop political climate is a motivating factor for all this.

The "anti-cop political climate" only exists because of the constant abuse, murder, and theft committed by the police, without any repercussions in the majority of cases. Theft in particular is egregious. Here's a story from earlier this year of the police stealing over $100,000 off a woman. https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburne...has-questions/

Cash seized. No charges filed. No active case it's evidence for. That's just theft. They made a law that allows the police to straight-up rob people and get away with it.

That kind of shit is why there's an "anti-cop political climate". Because police policies and training are anti-citizen. They've been trained and instructed to be the enemy of the people. Shouldn't be a fuckin' surprise that the people understand that.

[Coniferous]

The "anti-cop political climate" only exists because of the constant abuse, murder, and theft committed by the police, without any repercussions in the majority of cases. Theft in particular is egregious. Here's a story from earlier this year of the police stealing over $100,000 off a woman. https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburne...has-questions/

Cash seized. No charges filed. No active case it's evidence for. That's just theft. They made a law that allows the police to straight-up rob people and get away with it.

That kind of shit is why there's an "anti-cop political climate". Because police policies and training are anti-citizen. They've been trained and instructed to be the enemy of the people. Shouldn't be a fuckin' surprise that the people understand that.

So then go after civil forfeiture. Don't criminalize mistakes.

[Endus]

So then go after civil forfeiture. Don't criminalize mistakes.

"Criminal negligence leading to homicide".

Stop calling that a "mistake" or "accident". Those words don't apply.

Also, I am "going after civil forfeiture". But police are the central problem, as there's a wide range of things going on that police culture and policy is all at the center of. Police are the root problem when it comes to civil forfeiture. Same with police brutality. Same with "thin blue line" corruption. Same with corrupt unions protecting officers over the profession. And so on. There's a single central cause of all these problems; they are all directly related and emerge from the same causes.

[Coniferous]

"Criminal negligence leading to homicide".

Stop calling that a "mistake" or "accident". Those words don't apply.

We've been over this - that's your opinion, I disagree. It was a mistake.

[Endus]

We've been over this - that's your opinion, I disagree. It was a mistake.

It's also the court's decision, beyond any reasonable doubt. So no, it's not just "my opinion".

[Coniferous]

It's also the court's decision, beyond any reasonable doubt. So no, it's not just "my opinion".

You've never disagreed with a verdict?