Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Deus Mortis]

She was no longer in immediate danger when he was shot, though. The police weren't "saving her from grievous injury", which is the lethal force standard he's talking about.

As I have already stated in the thread that it was a bad shoot on post 24068, if Endus was meaning what you're saying of "saving her from grievous injury" then yeah I agree with you, he was not doing that since the attack already happened and he was fleeing. However how Endus phrased "nor had his attacks (which I'm in no way defending) grievously injured anyone" was my point of disagreement.

[Egomaniac]

While I agree with 99% of what you said, what is your definition of grievously injured? Cause from Collins Dictionary it says "A grievous injury to your body is one that causes you great pain and suffering." and that women that got beaten imo looked like she would 100% qualify with that definition. Edit: From the NPR article "The woman who was assaulted had moderate to serious injuries, including wounds to her head, arms and face."

Personally, I would place "grievous injury" above "moderate to serious injury" in the hierarchy. No doubt the woman looked fucked up...but it doesn't seem that the injuries she sustained up to that point were life-threatening or maiming.

Also, here's a legal definiton of "grievous bodily harm"

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/920#g_4

Grievous bodily harm.—
The term “grievous bodily harm” means serious bodily injury. It includes fractured or dislocated bones, deep cuts, torn members of the body, serious damage to internal organs, and other severe bodily injuries. It does not include minor injuries such as a black eye or a bloody nose.

[Deus Mortis]

Personally, I would place "grievous injury" above "moderate to serious injury" in the hierarchy. No doubt the woman looked fucked up...but it doesn't seem that the injuries she sustained up to that point were life-threatening or maiming.

Also, here's a legal definiton of "grievous bodily harm"

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/920#g_4

Thanks for the link, the only one that might qualify would be deep cuts, it is hard to tell how deep the cuts were though, there was blood, but the head does leak really easily.

Edit: Man watching the footage again and one of the cops had a 40mm Less Lethal Launcher too.

[Egomaniac]

Thanks for the link, the only one that might qualify would be deep cuts, it is hard to tell how deep the cuts were though, there was blood, but the head does leak really easily.

Yeah "deep cuts" can be a little subjective... They should be a little more specific. I mean, when I was a teenager i took a "deep cut" to my finger...left a permanent scar...but I don't know if I would call it "grievous". I think the cuts would have to be equivalent to the other injuries listed in that definition though. It's hard to analyse how badly she was hurt from the few seconds she's on the video...but if the reports say "moderate-to-serious injuries"...I think it probably looked worse than it actually was. Like you said, head wounds can bleed a lot without there necessarily being a serious injury.

[PhaelixWW]

Edit: Man watching the footage again and one of the cops had a 40mm Less Lethal Launcher too.

I mean, on the video you hear (and see in subtitles) at least one other officer saying "hold up, hold up, hold up".

Without knowing everything in detail, this seems like one officer just going wannabe hero mode and firing unnecessarily, and without even announcing his presence or issuing a warning.

[Endus]

While I agree with 99% of what you said, what is your definition of grievously injured? Cause from Collins Dictionary it says "A grievous injury to your body is one that causes you great pain and suffering." and that women that got beaten imo looked like she would 100% qualify with that definition. Edit: From the NPR article "The woman who was assaulted had moderate to serious injuries, including wounds to her head, arms and face."

I was paraphrasing the "grievous bodily harm" definition, as Egomaniac linked. On "deep cuts", the standard is usually meant to cover wounds that pose an immediate threat of loss of life, disfigurement, or long-term disability. Broken bones being on the lighter end of that spectrum. A deep cut to the leg severing your femoral artery would count, since you could bleed out in minutes, but not surface cuts to the head, which might bleed a lot but won't see you bleed out.

"Serious injuries" can fit this bill, or not. It's a term that has overlap. I was under the impression she would need stitches and to be checked for head injuries like concussion and such; gruesome and horrible, but not stepping to the level of "grievous bodily harm". If someone has a source contradicting that, by all means, post it, this isn't a point I have any investment in and I'm not trying to hand-wave anything away.

[Lenonis]

He did have it coming.

TIL some people want the police to be an extrajudicial execution squad. Cool. What could go wrong?

[Nurasu]

TIL some people want the police to be an extrajudicial execution squad. Cool. What could go wrong?

If 'Mr. Other' was a reference to something, I didn't understand it. My reply was completely tongue-in-cheek in context with everything else.

[Egomaniac]

If 'Mr. Other' was a reference to something, I didn't understand it. My reply was completely tongue-in-cheek in context with everything else.

"Mr. Other" was a reference to this exchange

To me it's murkier when she's killed by a ricochet in a situation created by a criminal that could have killed some other people.

Yo, who'd he kill first?

Mr. Could and Mrs. Have.

"Mr. Other" was going along with the "Killed other people"... which, as Edge pointed out, implies that the guy had already killed at least one person.

[PhaelixWW]

"Mr. Other" was going along with the "Killed other people"... which, as Edge pointed out, implies that the guy had already killed at least one person.

Why the hell are you guys getting stuck on the use of the word "other"? There's more than one damn way to parse this sentence in English, you know. Clearly he didn't mean "could have killed some people other than the ones he already killed" but instead meant "could have killed some people other than the girl in the dressing room".

FFS, give it up. There are worse things to be complaining about than your misunderstanding of a vague word choice. Don't get caught up being that pedantic.

[Nurasu]

Why the hell are you guys getting stuck on the use of the word "other"? There's more than one damn way to parse this sentence in English, you know. Clearly he didn't mean "could have killed some people other than the ones he already killed" but instead meant "could have killed some people other than the girl in the dressing room".

FFS, give it up. There are worse things to be complaining about than your misunderstanding of a vague word choice. Don't get caught up being that pedantic.

The entirety of it stems from my fallacious elimination of all actions between "let him rampage through the store" and "gun him down" anyway, so I'll take pedantry over my word choice on the chin.

[Egomaniac]

Why the hell are you guys getting stuck on the use of the word "other"? There's more than one damn way to parse this sentence in English, you know. Clearly he didn't mean "could have killed some people other than the ones he already killed" but instead meant "could have killed some people other than the girl in the dressing room".

FFS, give it up. There are worse things to be complaining about than your misunderstanding of a vague word choice. Don't get caught up being that pedantic.

I was just explaining to him what the use of "Mr. Other" was about...since he asked.

[PhaelixWW]

The LAPD police officer who fatally shot a 14-year-old girl and an assault suspect has been named by department

I mean, his last name was pretty prominently displayed in the video released by the police on Monday.

Not that Jones is an uncommon surname, I guess.

[jonnysensible]

lol that cops a useless cunt, put him in a hole for 60 years.

[Edge-]

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/...-nazi-insignia

An assistant police chief in Washington essentially took two weeks of paid vacation as punishment after displaying Nazi insignia on the door to his office, the Kent Reporter first reported.

In September 2020, Kent Police Assistant Chief Derek Kammerzell posted the mark of an SS “Obergruppenführer,” one of the highest ranks in Adolf Hitler’s Third Reich, above the nameplate on his office. The insignia remained there for two weeks before it was reported and taken down.

Ten months later, Kammerzell was placed on two-week administrative leave—which is supposed to come without pay—for harassment, discrimination, and conduct unbecoming of a police officer, according to disciplinary documents obtained by local whistleblower group No Secret Police. The 27-year veteran of the force, however, used vacation time, which allowed him to receive pay despite the disciplinary action, according to the Kent Reporter.

For his part, Kammerzell insisted that he had no knowledge of its association with Nazis and only knew about it because of its appearance on the Amazon Prime show “The Man in the High Castle,” according to an investigation commissioned by the city.

The show’s premise, however, literally centers around an alternate version of history where Nazi Germany won their quest for world domination in World War II. Kammerzell said that he thought the symbol was simply a German rank and identified with it because of his own German heritage.

The investigation found that Kammerzell’s claim was “not plausible,” according to the Seattle Times.

...

But this wasn’t the first time Kammerzell was accused of making light of the Holocaust. Stokes Lawrence, the law firm behind the city’s investigation, also found that the assistant chief had been previously photographed sporting a Hitler-style mustache (which he said was a result of his participation in the annual Movember fundraising event) and another time flashing a Nazi salute at an Oktoberfest event in 2019.

Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn cro...

Wait, this isn't a KKK fuck, this is a straight up fuckin Nazi.

How he wasn't instantly fired and blacklisted from working as anything more than a mall security guard on a segueway is beyond me. We really tolerate Nazi's far too much in this country.

[s_bushido]

Kammerzell insisted that he had no knowledge of its association with Nazis and only knew about it because of its appearance on the Amazon Prime show “The Man in the High Castle,”

I...
You...
B...but...those were literally Nazis in Man in the High Castle...

I'm generally willing to believe that there's just abject stupidity involved in shit like this, but come on, man. This world deserves a better class of dumbass.

[Edge-]

I...
You...
B...but...those were literally Nazis in Man in the High Castle...

I'm generally willing to believe that there's just abject stupidity involved in shit like this, but come on, man. This world deserves a better class of dumbass.

I mean, as far as I'm concerned this should call into question every interaction he's had with a person of color, a Jewish person, any member of the LGTBQ+ community etc.

Like, there are enough issues with accountability and honesty within law enforcement, but add that one of them is a fuckin Nazi to the mix and I think that, for better or worse, calls into question their judgement and behavior on every case they've ever worked.

Nazi's deserve no quarter. They deserve no compassion. They deserve no second chances. They can fuck right off and live in the woods, away from society, until they renounce their Nazi beliefs and start working to make up for the damage that they and their ideology has done, and continues to do.

[s_bushido]

I mean, as far as I'm concerned this should call into question every interaction he's had with a person of color, a Jewish person, any member of the LGTBQ+ community etc.

Well yeah...but I'm not sure what exactly they'd do even if they cared. The only thing that seems like it might be actionable are any cases in which he directly testified against someone on behalf of the department.

[PhaelixWW]

Sentencing for the Ahmaud Arbery case.

Travis McMichael: Life + 20 years without possibility of parole.

Greg McMichael: Life + 20 years without possibility of parole.

Roddie Bryan: Life + 10 years with possibility of parole.

[jonnysensible]

Sentencing for the Ahmaud Arbery case.

Travis McMichael: Life + 20 years without possibility of parole.

Greg McMichael: Life + 20 years without possibility of parole.

Roddie Bryan: Life + 10 years with possibility of parole.

wonder how many people the empathyless racist greg mcmichael stitched up when he was a GCPD officer

if that video hadn't gone viral the good old boys would still be knocking about free.