1. #23641
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    I...
    You...
    B...but...those were literally Nazis in Man in the High Castle...

    I'm generally willing to believe that there's just abject stupidity involved in shit like this, but come on, man. This world deserves a better class of dumbass.
    Yeah, even in the case that he was completely ignorant of what the symbol represented...the fact that it was used in a show about nazis and only worn/displayed by nazis should have been something of a tip off that the symbol just might be related to nazis. And if that isn't enough to make a person question the appropriateness of prominently displaying such a symbol in your workplace... it is, at the very least, proof that the individual in question does not possess the mental capacity that should be required for the rank they hold.

    And that's even if one were to overlook his other nazi-related incidents.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2022-01-07 at 09:14 PM.

  2. #23642
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Sentencing for the Ahmaud Arbery case.

    Travis McMichael: Life + 20 years without possibility of parole.

    Greg McMichael: Life + 20 years without possibility of parole.

    Roddie Bryan: Life + 10 years with possibility of parole.
    Hopefully it's a warning to all the yahoos that think they're Paul fuckin Kerzy.

  3. #23643
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Roddie Bryan: Life + 10 years with possibility of parole.
    Just to tack on, Roddie Bryan will have to serve a minimum of 30 years before he is even eligible for that parole.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/07/us/ah...yan/index.html

    Bryan, who is 52 years old, will be eligible for parole under Georgia law only after he has served 30 years in prison because he was convicted of serious violent felonies.
    So, best case for him, he's 82 when he gets out.

    Most likely result is all 3 die in prison.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2022-01-07 at 09:16 PM.

  4. #23644
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Most likely result is all 3 die in prison.
    I'm fine with that result.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  5. #23645
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I'm fine with that result.
    Yeah, I got zero issues. I just wanted to clarify that, even with parole on the table, he still serves at least 30 years... barring some kind of "compassionate release" circumstance.

  6. #23646
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Sentencing for the Ahmaud Arbery case.

    Travis McMichael: Life + 20 years without possibility of parole.

    Greg McMichael: Life + 20 years without possibility of parole.

    Roddie Bryan: Life + 10 years with possibility of parole.
    Yeah, apparently they tried to only give them 30 years with a plea deal, but the Arbery family said no. Because they knew they were going to get life in prison for it.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahmaud-...deal-rejected/
    .

  7. #23647
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Yeah, apparently they tried to only give them 30 years with a plea deal, but the Arbery family said no. Because they knew they were going to get life in prison for it.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahmaud-...deal-rejected/
    .
    Plea deals for garbage like this are so awful. Good on them for telling the DoJ to stuff it, that is the correct move.

  8. #23648
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Yeah, apparently they tried to only give them 30 years with a plea deal, but the Arbery family said no. Because they knew they were going to get life in prison for it.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ahmaud-...deal-rejected/
    .
    That's for the Federal charges.

    This is the sentencing for the State Charges.

  9. #23649
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I see you opposed to "non starter" and "no compromise." Are you willing to compromise on "that is broken and unacceptable?"

    In the bounds of the crazy situations police run into, and are paid and deputized by society to run into, they bring into the situation risks. In the course of stopping grievous bodily injury or death, I want them to shoot the attacker with the intent to stop him immediately. I accept that there will always be the chance that the bullet goes wild, or overpenetrates, and hits and kills bystanders. While I hope that's minimized, I must hold that there's always a chance that innocents are hurt and killed in the performance of their duties. If you're unwilling to deal with those scenarios, then I have nothing further to add on the repetitive "what makes it acceptable//I'm justified in prejudging the situation to villainize cops." God knows I've honored repetitive statements on that subject with a response, and gotten dinged for it.

    If you saw what I wrote to Rozz, I consider it a major aspect to why reform movements stall out and become embroiled in tribal warfare. It turns out that this instance favors the "cop acted badly" conclusion, but it doesn't help that the conclusions were reached before much of anything was known.

    It's a remark to Rozz, not something I'm soliciting thread comments on. He remarked upon, and I agree, that the topic is not worth a long discussion on ("If that's how you see it then that's it." " are we gonna agree that's a weird thing to even start on"). I've said my piece on why I think reformers are kneecapping themselves, even when you believe they're sincere in wanting reform and sincere in thinking their dialogue doesn't hurt the project.
    You sure did type a whole lot and ended up saying absolutely nothing. There's no excuse for killing innocent people who have either not committed a crime. Nor is there any excuse for killing someone who previously committed a crime but has served their time. It's why all of these "Well this guy was a convicted sexual harasser so he deserved to die!" arguments are worse than a pile of cold shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Sentencing for the Ahmaud Arbery case.

    Travis McMichael: Life + 20 years without possibility of parole.

    Greg McMichael: Life + 20 years without possibility of parole.

    Roddie Bryan: Life + 10 years with possibility of parole.
    The racist fuckwads getting life without parole. Good to send a message, but when are we going to start locking up police officers who just love to randomly shoot black people? Seems police can and do get away with any murder they commit.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  10. #23650
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post

    The racist fuckwads getting life without parole. Good to send a message, but when are we going to start locking up police officers who just love to randomly shoot black people? Seems police can and do get away with any murder they commit.
    Not that I am suggesting that it in any way "evens the score" or anything like that...but 2021 did see the convictions of Derek Chauvin and Kim Potter. Ther's still a really long way to go...but it's a start.

  11. #23651
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    You sure did type a whole lot and ended up saying absolutely nothing. There's no excuse for killing innocent people who have either not committed a crime. Nor is there any excuse for killing someone who previously committed a crime but has served their time. It's why all of these "Well this guy was a convicted sexual harasser so he deserved to die!" arguments are worse than a pile of cold shit.




    He's really good at that.

  12. #23652
    The Lightbringer
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    Also to tack onto the Arbery sentencing, and because I can't remember if it was brought up in this thread when it was a story last late year: The DA who pretty much let these three walk initially is also being Indicted for Obstruction

    Quote Originally Posted by NYTimes
    A grand jury indicted a former prosecutor in Georgia on Thursday, accusing her of “showing favor and affection” to one of the men now charged with killing Ahmaud Arbery and for directing police officers not to arrest another suspect.

    The prosecutor, Jackie Johnson, a former district attorney in Glynn County, had recused herself from the case involving Mr. Arbery, a 25-year-old Black man who was confronted by three white men while jogging through their neighborhood...

    ...Ms. Johnson is charged with “violation of oath of public officer” and “obstruction and hindering a law enforcement officer,” according to the indictment, which the state attorney general’s office released on Thursday.

    The indictment says Ms. Johnson failed “to treat Ahmaud Arbery and his family fairly and with dignity” by not disclosing that she had sought the assistance of another district attorney before recommending that he take over the case. Ms. Johnson recused herself because Gregory McMichael had worked in her office.

    She also “knowingly and willfully” directed two Glynn County police officers not to arrest Travis McMichael, “contrary to the laws of said state,” the indictment said.

  13. #23653
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    Also to tack onto the Arbery sentencing, and because I can't remember if it was brought up in this thread when it was a story last late year: The DA who pretty much let these three walk initially is also being Indicted for Obstruction
    She should be charged as an accomplice/accessory, over and above everything else. There's no justification for her attempt to cover for these racist fucks, other than being a racist pro-lynching fuck herself.


  14. #23654
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    You sure did type a whole lot and ended up saying absolutely nothing. There's no excuse for killing innocent people who have either not committed a crime. Nor is there any excuse for killing someone who previously committed a crime but has served their time. It's why all of these "Well this guy was a convicted sexual harasser so he deserved to die!" arguments are worse than a pile of cold shit.
    I responded to a poster, not you, on a matter of compromise, the duty of cops, and another matter. If you're unwilling to weigh the incidence of accidental death and the mitigation of it in a 2nd amendment armed society and armed police force, then you have absolutely no standing to declare "There's no excuse for killing innocent people."

    "Well this guy was a convicted sexual harasser so he deserved to die!"
    Quoting arguments I haven't made at me thinks you're projecting with your "You sure did type a whole lot and ended up saying absolutely nothing."
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  15. #23655
    I am Murloc! Noxx79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I responded to a poster, not you, on a matter of compromise, the duty of cops, and another matter. If you're unwilling to weigh the incidence of accidental death and the mitigation of it in a 2nd amendment armed society and armed police force, then you have absolutely no standing to declare "There's no excuse for killing innocent people."

    Quoting arguments I haven't made at me thinks you're projecting with your "You sure did type a whole lot and ended up saying absolutely nothing."
    How many dead children killed by cops is acceptable?

  16. #23656
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I responded to a poster, not you, on a matter of compromise, the duty of cops, and another matter. If you're unwilling to weigh the incidence of accidental death and the mitigation of it in a 2nd amendment armed society
    Wait...I may be misreading/misinterpreting but are you arguing that the Second Amendment reduces deaths overall? The "mitigation" is confusing me a bit since that's an odd word in that sentence.

  17. #23657
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Wait...I may be misreading/misinterpreting but are you arguing that the Second Amendment reduces deaths overall? The "mitigation" is confusing me a bit since that's an odd word in that sentence.
    The reduction in severity and incidence of accidental deaths is a fine goal, as we’ve seen multiple police departments in bad shootings. That’s what I mean.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  18. #23658
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    The reduction in severity and incidence of accidental deaths is a fine goal, as we’ve seen multiple police departments in bad shootings. That’s what I mean.
    How, exactly, do we reduce the severity of accidental deaths? Are officers just going to leave people "Mostly dead"?



    And I think a reduction in bad shootings is a beter strategy...since that will also have the natural byproduct of reducing accidental deaths.

  19. #23659
    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...igation-finds/

    At a crucial moment during 2020’s racial justice protests, Seattle police exchanged a detailed series of fake radio transmissions about a nonexistent group of menacing right-wing extremists.

    The radio chatter about members of the Proud Boys marching around downtown Seattle, some possibly carrying guns, and then heading to confront protesters on Capitol Hill was an improper “ruse,” or dishonest ploy, that exacerbated a volatile situation, according to findings released Wednesday by the city’s Office of Police Accountability.

    The Proud Boys is a far-right group with a reputation for street violence and with several members — including one from South King County — who have been charged with terrorism for alleged actions related to the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C.

    The ruse happened on the night of June 8, 2020, hours after the Police Department had abandoned its East Precinct on Capitol Hill and just as protesters were starting to set up the zone that was later called the Capitol Hill Organized Protest, or CHOP.

    The officers who participated described a group gathering by City Hall and moving around downtown. They delivered reports such as, “It looks like a few of them might be open carrying,” and: “Hearing from the Proud Boys group. … They may be looking for somewhere else for confrontation.”

    Social media posts warning about the Proud Boys by people who were monitoring police radio transmissions caused alarm in the protest zone, where some people armed and barricaded themselves that night. Though some people in the zone may have brought guns regardless of the chatter, the ruse “improperly added fuel to the fire,” OPA Director Andrew Myerberg concluded.

    In the ensuing days, police leaders raised concerns about reports of armed people patrolling the zone and extorting business owners. Those leaders, including then-Police Chief Carmen Best, later walked back the extortion claim, lacking evidence. But photos and descriptions of the scene became national news, even reaching then-President Donald Trump, who threatened to “take back” the city.

    The June 8 chatter about Proud Boys was part of an approved “misinformation effort” via radio that multiple police leaders knew about, according to Wednesday’s closed-case summary by Myerberg, which will be reviewed by interim police Chief Adrian Diaz for disciplinary rulings. Fabricating the group of Proud Boys as part of the effort violated department policies, Myerberg determined.

    But it appears unlikely that anyone will lose their jobs or pay over the incident. The two employees who ordered and supervised the misinformation effort and who Myerberg sustained allegations of policy violations against have already left the department, according to the case summary.

    Myerberg didn’t sustain allegations of policy violations against four officers identified as having taken part in the Proud Boys chatter. The officers used poor judgment, but their supervisors were mostly to blame for failing to provide adequate supervision, Myerberg determined.

    The Proud Boys ruse was deployed at an incredibly tense moment. The murder of George Floyd had sparked more than a week of large-scale protests in Seattle, with the police barricading streets around the East Precinct and deploying tear gas. Later in June, two fatal shootings occurred in the CHOP zone.

    Matt Watson, a Seattle artist and activist known as “Spek,” immediately raised the possibility on social media that there had been a hoax. No one out on the streets had actually seen the Proud Boys group that the officers were talking about on the radio, and the officers were using irregular call signs.

    But there was no investigation until late 2020, when Converge Media journalist Omari Salisbury asked OPA for body camera video from the officers who had supposedly tailed the Proud Boys group. When OPA couldn’t locate any relevant video, the office launched an investigation.

    The investigation was completed by September 2021; several months passed before Myerberg issued findings. The case was less of a priority than some others that involved recommendations of discipline against current employees, Myerberg said. The city’s contract with the union that represents officers prohibits discipline in investigations that take more than 180 days.

    Salisbury, whose questions spurred the OPA investigation and who pressed for the findings to be released, said he wants the public to know what had occurred. It’s been 18 months since the Proud Boys ruse happened.

    “It’s important that everything about the protests comes out and until that occurs we can’t move forward and heal,” Salisbury said, noting that new Mayor Bruce Harrell has talked about trying to bring city together. “We can’t be one Seattle until we resolve these issues.”

    Watson, who posted audio from the Proud Boys ruse on social media after someone sent him a recording from the website openmhz.com, contends the ruse was part of a wider attempt by the police to undermine the protests.

    Having a counterinsurgency operation conducted by our local police department in our own community is bonkers,” especially given that the officers weaponized a group later involved in the Capitol attack, Watson said.

    In a statement Wednesday, Harrell said the ruse had done “immeasurable” damage to public trust.

    Misinformation, especially of this inflammatory nature, is totally unacceptable from our Seattle police officers,” he said. “This kind of tactic never should have been considered.”

    The Police Department had been cited for an improper ruse before, said Councilmember Lisa Herbold, noting a 2019 recommendation for better training has been only partially implemented.

    The investigation
    The OPA contacted the department’s operations center and intelligence unit and learned there had been a miscommunication effort approved, ordered and led by a captain who later became an assistant chief and then left the department.

    Myerberg’s case summary doesn’t name any of the people involved, referring to the captain as “Named Employee #1.” But the description of Named Employee #1 applies to Bryan Grenon, who was captain of the East Precinct, became an assistant chief and has since left.

    In an interview with OPA, Grenon said he came up with the misinformation effort because he knew people were monitoring police radio transmissions. He said the idea was to give them the impression that “we had more officers out there doing regular stuff.”

    Grenon said he didn’t seek approval from Best or Assistant Chief of Patrol Operations Tom Mahaffey for the misinformation effort.

    He said misinformation was used on June 8 in particular because “we were overrun with, you know, forces or protesters.” An aim was to separate them and “get them into other areas.” Grenon didn’t know until later that the officers had decided to discuss a fictitious group of Proud Boys, he told OPA.

    An operations center officer labeled “Named Employee #2” told OPA he was assigned by Grenon to carry out the misinformation effort by organizing some officers to “focus some attention on a location different than where the main police and protest interactions were happening.” He said he didn’t remember the Proud Boys ruse but also didn’t consider it inappropriate. The aim was to “make the broadcast seem realistic” rather than to “incite fear,” he said.

    In a second interview with OPA, Grenon said the use of the Proud Boys was contrary to his guidance to Named Employee #2 and said the point of the misinformation effort was to protect officers from being ambushed.

    Reached Wednesday by phone, Grenon said he was looking for “an innocent way to just throw out some distraction” at a time when the Police Department was short-handed and under pressure.

    He said the effort was meant to target people intent on harming officers, drawing a distinction between those people and regular protesters.

    “It was never my intent to cause alarm,” he said, attributing the Proud Boys ruse to officers who got carried away.

    “Hindsight is 20/20,” Grenon said.

    An officer who was involved in other aspects of the misinformation effort but not the Proud Boys ruse said the effort lasted for multiple days and mostly involved mundane chatter, like what officers were going to eat that day.

    OPA interviewed three of four officers who were identified as having participated in the Proud Boys ruse. They said they weren’t given specific instructions, other than to divide the attention of the protesters.

    Best told OPA she didn’t know about the effort. Mahaffey told OPA he was generally aware but wasn’t involved. He said his understanding was that the effort was supposed to lure protesters away from the East Precinct, allowing the police to reoccupy the building.

    Mahaffey didn’t know at the time that the Proud Boys would be referenced but believes the use of a ruse was justified, he told OPA.

    “We simply cannot have a chief or command staff claim that they are unaware of such critical tactical decisions. … This cannot happen again, period,” Harrell said Wednesday, promising to meet with Diaz about the matter.

    Herbold said she would have expected more oversight from someone like Mahaffey.

    The findings
    Wednesday’s case summary includes the Proud Boys transmissions until 10:14 p.m. The chatter continued past midnight, according to a recording shared by Watson, with officers describing the Proud Boys moving from downtown to First Hill in an attempt to reach Capitol Hill.

    At one point, an officer said, “I haven’t seen any long weapons. There might be one carry — one sidearm on a holster,” describing the group as “very boisterous tonight.”

    At another point, the same officer reported a fight brewing between the Proud Boys and another group. He said officers had detained one person and later said he was going to confiscate “sticks, makeshift weapons.”

    The same officer later estimated that the group was 20 to 30 people, saying the Proud Boys were going to head east, toward Cal Anderson Park, near the East Precinct.

    According to Myerberg, Grenon and Named Employee #2 violated the department’s policies on discretion and truthfulness.

    The effort lacked adequate guidelines (officers said they weren’t told what to say or not say), was inadequately supervised (officers said they’d never participated in a similar effort before) and was inadequately documented (there was no after-action report, no list of who participated and no official recording made), Myerberg concluded.

    Police are allowed to use a ruse only when undercover, to acquire information for a criminal investigation or to address “an exigent threat to life safety or public safety.” Even then, state law says a ruse can’t be so “shocking” as to violate “fundamental fairness.” None of those conditions applied to the Proud Boys chatter, Myerberg determined.

    “While anger and emotion were high” in the CHOP that night, “there was no ongoing violence within the zone or imminent violence that could have been reasonably foreseen,” he wrote.

    Had the officers only discussed innocuous topics, such as movies or meals, that would have been acceptable, Myerberg wrote.

    “The use of the Proud Boys when it was known that the transmissions would be monitored took a volatile situation and made it even more so,” Myerberg wrote, arguing it was reasonably foreseeable that the CHOP protesters would be worried and would “take steps to arm and defend themselves.”
    I don't have it in me to highlight the whole fuckin thing but like...

    Yo, cops are running counter-intelligence operations against public protests, completely with misinformation and public lies. They've been in trouble for this before, it violates their own departmental policy.

    This is why folks continue to have such a hard fuckin time trusting cops. I mean, remember that time that BLM looted tens of thousands of dollars in jewelry? And then then jewelry store owners asked the cops what the fuck they were talking about because nothing had been stolen? Or that time that they were totes "poisoned" at a fuckin Steak Shack despite knowing full well that it was not the case and instead a complete fiction?

    Yeah mean, that's rad and shit. Usually when folks lie in their jobs they eventually get fired, but despite seeing tip-toeing towards accountability it still largely seems that being a police officer is a fantastic profession if you just want to lie to and gaslight the public all the time.

  20. #23660
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    How, exactly, do we reduce the severity of accidental deaths? Are officers just going to leave people "Mostly dead"?



    And I think a reduction in bad shootings is a beter strategy...since that will also have the natural byproduct of reducing accidental deaths.
    As in a "severe shortage of skilled engineers" you would reduce the severity. Wild shots, shootings where its clear that someone's life and limb isn't under immediate threat, the kind of stories I see linked here all the time. Yes, going for more discipline and tackling *ahem* a severe lack of fast appraisal of situation in some departments is advantageous. But maybe we have enough posts on an issue of semantics already...
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

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