Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Edge-]

But if the police wait for the canines, they can get the dogs to maul their intended victims while pretending the dogs are just out of control.

I don't really understand why they wouldn't do that.

Because they'd have to put down the dog, and nobody wants that. Dogs shouldn't be complicit in police wrongdoing, they're good bois.

[Ghostpanther]

Drug use and possession, real or imagined, has historically been used to marginalize and oppress minorities. Setting aside the failures of the drug war, why didn't they just request a K-9 unit?

One thing which may be missing on this case is, did the driver have a previous record for illegal drug possession?. Not saying he did. But there are some details missing which have not been shown that I have seen. And where is the camera records of the officers?

The police know when they pull you over, before they even get out of their cruisers, if the driver has a criminal record by the license plate number. If the car is registered to the driver that is.

And they do not need a dog to search a car for drugs.

[Felya]

One thing which may be missing on this case is, did the driver have a previous record for illegal drug possession?

Why would that mater?

[Edge-]

One thing which may be missing on this case is, did the driver have a previous record for illegal drug possession?

Did the officer know this when he pulled the driver over? If he had not established this, then the drivers prior criminal history, if it exists, is irrelevant.

And where is the camera records of the officers?

If you watched the video (I'm still skeptical since you think a headlock is grabbing someone "around the shoulder"), none of the officers had body cameras, so the only video evidence we have is from the driver.

The police know when they pull you over, before they even get out of their cruisers, if the driver has a criminal record by the license plate number. If the car is registered to the driver that is.

No, they don't. They have not established the identity of the driver, so all they know is information about the owner of the car. Whether the owner is currently the one behind the wheel or not is not established at that time.

[Felya]

Drug use and possession, real or imagined, has historically been used to marginalize and oppress minorities. Setting aside the failures of the drug war, why didn't they just request a K-9 unit?

As someone who partakes... the cop acted like he was on crack, but the driver showed no indication. Someone who just got high, for you to smell it from a window, wouldn’t have the composure, to stop him self from reacting to ‘under arrest due to refusing demands’. You can tell that it hit the driver, because he reacted with “psh... demands?”... but, it didn’t distract him, he maintained his composure. It’s extremely unlikely that someone who just got high, could do that.

[Mayhem]

If the officer has not established probable cause, yeah. The person behind the wheel has rights too, even if that may frustrate the officer.

It's pretty interesting coming from him considering he is defending the 2nd amendment in the gun-control thread since forever.

[Endus]

One thing which may be missing on this case is, did the driver have a previous record for illegal drug possession?. Not saying he did. But there are some details missing which have not been shown that I have seen. And where is the camera records of the officers?

It's entirely irrelevant, even if he did have a record.

And they do not need a dog to search a car for drugs.

They do need probable cause. Even a prior record of drug possession is not sufficient for probable cause.

[PosPosPos]

Because they'd have to put down the dog, and nobody wants that. Dogs shouldn't be complicit in police wrongdoing, they're good bois.

Oh you don't have to worry about the dogs being put down.


Bonus.

[Saltysquidoon]

Drug detection dogs are notoriously unreliable and are frankly just another attempt by police to skirt reasonable suspicion or probable cause requirements.

[Edge-]

https://www.opb.org/news/article/fed...TtmtabjZB72qv0

Federal law enforcement officers have been using unmarked vehicles to drive around downtown Portland and detain protesters since at least July 14. Personal accounts and multiple videos posted online show the officers driving up to people, detaining individuals with no explanation of why they are being arrested, and driving off.

The tactic appears to be another escalation in federal force deployed on Portland city streets, as federal officials and President Donald Trump have said they plan to “quell” nightly protests outside the federal courthouse and Multnomah County Justice Center that have lasted for more than six weeks.

Armed feds in camo are driving around in unmarked cars, literally arresting people off the streets with no explanation.

But I guess this is fine.

[Elegiac]

It's entirely irrelevant, even if he did have a record.

They do need probable cause. Even a prior record of drug possession is not sufficient for probable cause.

It does raise a good point, even if uninentionally.

Why not apply similar sorts of burden of proof regulations on police with regards to judicial records that we do on healthcare providers vis a vis HIPAA, or even information generally with GDPR?

If you've served your time, the record should be sealed by default and only accessible with due process. There is no reason a local clod should be able to pull up your entire life's story by running your plates.

[Kasierith]

Of which said judges generally give favor to the police anyway.

Not exactly sure why you hold some sort of obsession defending bad police behavior by the number.

I was responding to a specific remark, with a factual observation on how the law works. It certainly doesn't look like the victim was charged with obstruction of justice, so it's probably fair to say that the justice system didn't agree with the officer that he was obstructing a lawful traffic stop. If you would care to point out where what I said diverges from the true nature of things, go ahead.

[Doctor Amadeus]

if the idea of white superiority permeated society why would i face hostility when i'm "white", have blonde hair and blue eyes?

Because you're full of shit?

[Easo]

Can we stop using the "but the police is not the most dangerous job" bullshit? Endus? Edge? Maybe do use some logic?
In which of those other top 15 most dangerous jobs (I also love how it implies that "meh, you are only 15th, it does not matter, luuul") you will be in danger not because of accidents/shit happens/neglect, but because you can/will be deliberately targetted by other people. The only other two jobs I can think of would be soldiers (duh) and to an lesser extent medics in some cases.

I think that there is a difference...

[Yadryonych]

https://www.opb.org/news/article/fed...TtmtabjZB72qv0



Armed feds in camo are driving around in unmarked cars, literally arresting people off the streets with no explanation.

But I guess this is fine.

Glad to see the situation is finally being handled. It's surprising how people who complained about federal government and the President doing nothing to improve the situation are suddenly not so happy of them actually stepping in and handling it

[JohnBrown1917]

https://twitter.com/instrumelo/statu...482364931?s=19

Never change, US police.

Glad to see the situation is finally being handled. It's surprising how people who complained about federal government and the President doing nothing to improve the situation are suddenly not so happy of them actually stepping in and handling it

Russians and supporting authortian tactics, name an more iconic duo.

[Elegiac]

Can we stop using the "but the police is not the most dangerous job" bullshit? Endus? Edge? Maybe do use some logic?
In which of those other top 15 most dangerous jobs (I also love how it implies that "meh, you are only 15th, it does not matter, luuul") you will be in danger not because of accidents/shit happens/neglect, but because you can/will be deliberately targetted by other people. The only other two jobs I can think of would be soldiers (duh) and to an lesser extent medics in some cases.

I think that there is a difference...

Yes, there is a difference.

The difference is that in the case of EMTs, nurses, social workers, psychiatric responders, bouncers, pizza delivery drivers, et cetera (all of which are jobs that are as dangerous if not more so than being in law enforcement) the holders of those positions are not protected by a whole legal structure that enables them to get away with using lethal if not undue force when faced with violent people in the course of their careers - so they tend not to use it, because doing so carries severe penalties if found to be avoidable in any way.

- - - Updated - - -

Glad to see the situation is finally being handled. It's surprising how people who complained about federal government and the President doing nothing to improve the situation are suddenly not so happy of them actually stepping in and handling it

Gee, I wonder if because a protest against police brutality being met with what is effectively a secret police disappearing protesters off the streets is not "handling it". Stop supporting fascism.

[Endus]

Can we stop using the "but the police is not the most dangerous job" bullshit? Endus? Edge? Maybe do use some logic?
In which of those other top 15 most dangerous jobs (I also love how it implies that "meh, you are only 15th, it does not matter, luuul") you will be in danger not because of accidents/shit happens/neglect, but because you can/will be deliberately targetted by other people. The only other two jobs I can think of would be soldiers (duh) and to an lesser extent medics in some cases.

I think that there is a difference...

The big difference is the argument.

We are being asked to allow police officers to put innocent civilians at risk and to directly threaten them with deadly force, all solely in the name of the officer's "safety". Because of the supposed danger.

That the danger is simply not that prevalent at all makes that argument completely asinine in nature. There is no justifiable reason for police to be initiating that kind of threat of violence against innocent people.

Is it vanishingly rarely possible that a traffic stop will end violently, with the citizen in the car opening fire on the officer as they approach? Sure. Does that justify the officer drawing his weapon and approaching with the gun trained on the driver, during every traffic stop? Fuck no. That officer is a psychopath. If his training tells him that this is standard protocol, then his training has made him a psychopath, and all his fellow officers are thus also psychopaths, by training. Panicky, fearful, chickenshit psychopaths.

[Mayhem]

Can we stop using the "but the police is not the most dangerous job" bullshit? Endus? Edge? Maybe do use some logic?
In which of those other top 15 most dangerous jobs (I also love how it implies that "meh, you are only 15th, it does not matter, luuul") you will be in danger not because of accidents/shit happens/neglect, but because you can/will be deliberately targetted by other people. The only other two jobs I can think of would be soldiers (duh) and to an lesser extent medics in some cases.

I think that there is a difference...

Now let's think about that the police are actually escalating things more often than not, how does that make you feel about your point?

[Easo]

Well, this is USA, Endus, and the country differs from the rest of the world precisely with being armed to the teeth. Some problems are interconnected to others.
Yes yes, the good old gun discussion also plays a role in all of this.

Elegiac - another thing States should learn from Europe - unions, for example, actually do what they are supposed to. But that implies changing a lot of other things.
Police being shit in the USA is not a problem in vacuum.

Now let's think about that the police are actually escalating things more often than not, how does that make you feel about your point?

It makes me think that USA should finally start learning things from Europe, where police education usually takes more than 6 months.
Do people here seriously think that USA will EVER have normal cops if they will continue to be undertrained? Pff... You can make all the reforms you want, you can fire the entire force, it will still not fix lack of training.