Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Krakan]

Why was a seventeen year old, a minor, wandering the streets of a city he apparently didn't even live in carrying a loaded AR-15? Who in their right mind gives their underage son a loaded gun and lets them go play around in another city, in another state, in during a major riot? How did this minor even end up in this situation?

What sort of batshit irresponsible parent lets their teenage son go off to live action roleplay a CoD game with a loaded gun? If I had a son of that age who asked to go to a riot with a loaded gun I'd beat the hell out that kid.

Okay, self-defense? Dude what was that teenager doing there? Can a 17 year old even be legally walking around at night unsupervised (I think) with some not insignificant firepower in his hands. How did he get that gun? Who gave it to him? Can a 17 year old buy an AR15, I was under the impression you had to be 18 at least to buy any gun. So was it his parents? Did his militia friends give it to him? Why is a minor hanging out with militia people?

Maybe he is technically not guilty of murder, still there is an entire chain of events that led to this happening and I find in implausible to absurd that someone shouldn't be in jail for this, either Kyle for actually you know killing two and seriously mutilating another, or his parents for letting their son have a loaded rifle to go play solider, or these militia people for bringing a minor on board and giving him a loaded rifle.

O he shouldn't of been their nor should he of been armed I offer no excuse for that. It still doesn't hand wave away the assault.

He should be charged with possession along with the now one armed assailant who attacked him since he was a felon with a concealed weapon.

[Theodarzna]

Apparently you need a parent/guardian to sign off on it in the state of Illinois. I don't know for sure if his parents did, but I assume they signed off for him to legally own it in the state.

Not sure what the legality of a minor bringing a legal firearm across state lines into another state is though.

Because he was hanging out with his militia buddies, who the cops like. Cops allying with and being buddies with armed right wing militias and white supremacist groups, especially during these protests, is a feature, not a bug.

The whole situation is fuckin batshit insane, and an indictment on the dangers of the Second Amendment and right wing vigilantism and militia LARPers.

The militia angle is freaking wild. Like it looks at least like the cops were just delegating law enforcement to, whoever these random guys are. And they clearly didn't care to check if the obvious minor walking away from what was obviously a live fire incident and just shrugged it off? That's bonkers.

The gun situation I guess depends on if its his actual firearm or not, OR if someone just handed a gun to a minor.

[Krakan]

Did you just claim that brandishing an assault rifle is non-threatening gesture? I ask, because you spent a lot of time claiming that reaching for an imaginary gun that didn't exist but could have is all the cops need to fire 8 bullets into the back of a black person yet a white kid threatening and brandishing an assault rifle is not a cause to fight back against?

Surely you see the hypocrisy and you're just pretending not too.....

He had it slung on his back... we have video evidence of this... I will not humor your fanfiction.

[Themius]

He was shot at himself in that car lot before he opened fire and shot his pursuer in the head.

First time I’ve heard that and you’ve said lots of things that maybe them out to be straight up lies with no sources.

[VamosH]

No, it was an assumption based on multiple factors, including post count, word choice, and attempts to sea lion.

I stand by my claim.
Feel free to put me on ignore.

Wish granted. I accept your self-admittance that you were purely BS-ing with your presumptions about me, as well as you being accepting of the qualities associated with a Trumpster.

[Edge-]

The militia angle is freaking wild. Like it looks at least like the cops were just delegating law enforcement to, whoever these random guys are. And they clearly didn't care to check if the obvious minor walking away from what was obviously a live fire incident and just shrugged it off? That's bonkers.

The gun situation I guess depends on if its his actual firearm or not, OR if someone just handed a gun to a minor.

The officers who let him walk away, and subsequently flee the state, all need to be fired. They won't be, but they should. Any officer not immediately stopping to apprehend a shooter, whether the shooting was in self defense or not, is grossly negligent in their duties.

[Blur4stuff]

Even if we pretend the murders didn't happen he should still be going to prison for the list of crimes he committed. Also, just swap the person and event around. Let's say a black guy or even a muslim broke the same laws, went to a Trump rally, and murdered a few Trump supporters. Does anyone honestly believe we'd be getting the same responses? You think Tucker Carlson would use his platform to defend the muslim shooter?

Of course not. This is 100% about them seeing a guy on their team murdering people on the other team so it's okay.

[Machismo]

Wish granted. I accept your self-admittance that you were purely BS-ing with your presumptions about me, as well as being accepting of the qualities associated with a Trumpster.

Once again, I stand by my comment. Experience has taught me well.

[Saucexorzski]

First time I’ve heard that and you’ve said lots of things that maybe them out to be straight up lies with no sources.

https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298839097923063809

"At 23:19, Rittenhouse is seen in this YouTube livestream. He's being chased into a parking lot. While he is being pursued, an unknown gunman fires the first shot into the air."

"Rittenhouse turns toward the sound of the gunfire as another pursuer lunges toward him. He then fires four times with his assault rifle, and appears to shoot the man in the head."

"The muzzle flash of the first shot by the unknown gunman and the smoke rising from the handgun can be seen in this video capturing the first shooting from a different angle."

Theres video of it there. can't post here since it violates mod warnings on graphic images.

[downnola]

He was shot at while being chased in the car lot. That along with the man who most certainly wished harm upon him, he had nowhere to go.

It doesn't matter if he was being chased. Using a rifle to kill an unarmed person that's chasing you isn't self defense. Shit, even shooting someone who's coming at you with a baseball bat isn't self-defense depending on the context. Remember John and Michael Miller that killed a guy over an argument about trash? Yeah, those two were arrested and face murder charges.

Self-defense is a lot more complicated than you lot are making it out to be.

[Machismo]

The officers who let him walk away, and subsequently flee the state, all need to be fired. They won't be, but they should. Any officer not immediately stopping to apprehend a shooter, whether the shooting was in self defense or not, is grossly negligent in their duties.

The chief and sheriff in the press conference had no substantive answers as to the actions of their own officers. Honestly, it was one of the worst press conferences of that type I have ever seen.

[Saucexorzski]

It doesn't matter if he was being chased. Using a rifle to kill an unarmed person that's chasing you isn't self defense. Shit, even shooting someone who's coming at you with a baseball bat isn't self-defense. Remember John and Michael Miller that killed a guy over an argument about trash? Yeah, those two were arrested and face murder charges.

Self-defense is a lot more complicated than you lot are making it out to be.

he was shot at, that's more than being chased.

[Edge-]

The chief and sheriff in the press conference had no substantive answers as to the actions of their own officers. Honestly, it was one of the worst press conferences of that type I have ever seen.

And then blamed the shootings on protesters, who largely abided by the curfew, violating curfew without a mention of the militia groups also violating curfew.

Chief needs to go and never work at another department again. If he has so little control or knowledge over what his officers are doing, and can't get immediate answers to serious questions, he's not in charge of the department and has no control.

[downnola]

he was shot at, that's more than being chased.

No, he wasn't.

[Krakan]

Do you mean physically attack them? If so, no, I agree with you on this point. I was reading it as attacking his character/motivations, which is absolutely fair game.

It is but I make it a point to strictly focus on the events in the video. Everything else is speculation after all and unproductive.

[Saucexorzski]

No, he wasn't.

yes he was, there is video evidence of it.

[Easo]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/u...ing-video.html

So someone else made the first shot and there might have been even more shooters elsewhere. Nice, this got even messier -.-

How did he get from being with cops to running from people? You are using “they are coming right for me” defense from southpark... he came there to hunt...



You are the one asking if you were missing something... you want to split this into two events, to protect your bullshit about not knowing that guns kill?

Ah yes, he came to hunt. Now that is called inventing fantasies. Unless you got actual proof? Because the only facts we have is that he was guarding a different dealership from looters/rioters by his own volition. Not the smartest idea, but nothing criminal yet, aside from being underage with a gun.

There were two events, first, where he was running away BEFORE he shot the red shirted guy and BEFORE he made a single shot, yet they kept running at him.
Second, after he left the shooting place and the protesters decided to charge him, close to the police forces.
So curb your fantasies.

[Edge-]

yes he was, there is video evidence of it.

https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298839097923063809

"At 23:19, Rittenhouse is seen in this YouTube livestream. He's being chased into a parking lot. While he is being pursued, an unknown gunman fires the first shot into the air."

You aren't agreeing with your own source you quoted, if it's all true.

[Krakan]

He was shot at himself in that car lot before he opened fire and shot his pursuer in the head.

I don't think he was if I am being honest. You can hear other gunshots in the video but I don't think they were directed at him just your usual peaceful protest ambiance gunshots.

[Endus]

So you would expect him to do nothing when his life is at stake when a pistol-wielding person is threatening him?

The guy chasing him, who he shot in the head, did not have a pistol, or if he did it certainly wasn't in his hand. You can see his hands in the video; no gun.

So you're lying about the facts.

At which point does it become OK to shoot them? After getting hit by fists or those sticks, maybe?

Nope. "I'm about to get beat up" is not grounds for lethal force in response, as self defense.

You need a lethal threat or a threat of grievous injury. Someone hitting you does not amount to that. And he wasn't even hit.

How much further should he run?

Until he's out of the situation.

You keep running.

Why even run after him in the first place, throw stuff at him, at someone armed?

We don't see what started it. Who knows what this little shithead did to provoke someone into chasing him.

It's a good question, though; how awfully did Rittenhouse behave that caused an unarmed guy to chase him, even though Rittenhouse was obviously heavily armed?

So I will say as I said before - I saw no one smart or reasonable there, just a moron with a gun and bunch of other morons who forgot that guns do kill people, quite messily at that.
This is not black vs white, us vs them, racists vs BLM, this was just a grey mass of morons.

The difference is that being a moron is not grounds to be shot dead.

You've got kooky morons, and a murderous moron. These are not equivalent. Stop "both sides"ing a multiple murder. It's fucking gross.

I mean we are going to just be arguing over what constitutes assault.. I don't believe you need to be stabbed or shot to defend yourself with lethal force nor does the law ( at least I assume it doesn't in america I'm sure it would be brought up if it was).

Certainly does here. Hell, if someone breaks into your house, you wouldn't have the legal right to shoot them, in Canada.

And someone running at you and yelling isn't going to qualify as a threat enough to warrant lethal force, even in the USA.

The blm rioter initiated the violence and then pursed and cornered his victim... you can't just blank that part out because it's a uncomfortable fact. The rioters do not have any legal right what so ever to police who is and isn't allowed to gather in an public place.

I'm not "blanking that out", I'm stating unequivocally that you are lying about the facts of the incident. Rittenhouse was not "cornered"; he was in an open parking lot. Rittenhouse opened fire without valid provocation. And you've got nothing to back this nonsense about "rioters do not have authority to police public places"; that's not what happened at any point in this.

Making shit up is not the same thing as having a valid argument. And you're making shit up, because the facts do not align with your take on events.