Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Felya]

what was the reason for qualified immunity to be implemented in the first place?

So police isn’t afraid to defend them selfs with lethal force...

[Felya]

we don't have that in sweden and they're not afraid to defend themselves with lethal force if the situation requires it here...

Just the messenger...

[DarkTZeratul]

we don't have that in sweden and they're not afraid to defend themselves with lethal force if the situation requires it here...

"In Pierson v. Ray (1967), the Supreme Court first justified the need for qualified immunity from civil rights violation lawsuits for law enforcement officers by arguing that "[a] policeman’s lot is not so unhappy that he must choose between being charged with dereliction of duty if he does not arrest when he had probable cause, and being punished with damages if he does.""

In and of itself the principle isn't a bad thing. The problem is that the standards for applying it are ridiculously out of sync with reality. Essentially, the standard that has been settled upon is that a police officer cannot get in trouble unless there is an established precedent that the EXACT thing that they did and the circumstances under which they did specifically is a violation of someone's Constitutional right. To quote Wikipedia again: "Critics have cited examples such as a November 2019 ruling by the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, which found that an earlier court case ruling it unconstitutional for police to sic dogs on suspects who have surrendered by lying on the ground did not apply under the "clearly established" rule to a case in which Tennessee police allowed their police dog to bite a surrendered suspect because the suspect had surrendered not by lying down but by sitting on the ground and raising his hands."

[Endus]

"In Pierson v. Ray (1967), the Supreme Court first justified the need for qualified immunity from civil rights violation lawsuits for law enforcement officers by arguing that "[a] policeman’s lot is not so unhappy that he must choose between being charged with dereliction of duty if he does not arrest when he had probable cause, and being punished with damages if he does.""

Which is a nonsense justification. Qualified immunity isn't an international standard; it's pretty much just the USA. Not in the way it's executed in the USA, at least. You can't sue a police officer in Canada for actions taken in good faith in the execution of their lawful powers or duties. But the moment they step outside those bounds? Absofuckin' lutely. Where are those lines drawn? In court, like anything else.

Qualified immunity is used to protect officers who've exceeded those bounds. Nobody thinks a cop should be able to be sued by the family of a violent, armed criminal who died in an active shootout with officers, which they'd initiated against those officers. But killing an unarmed civilian who hadn't actually done anything wrong? Fuck that, sue him into oblivion. His entire life should be in ruins in the aftermath of such an incident.

[pathora44]

that reminds me... what happened to those who shot a man that was given conflicting commands? one told him to stay put or lie down and another told him to crawl to them and then they shot him because he just followed the command by one officer?

Probably posthumous charges of resisting arrest and attempted murder of police officers for the victim with medals awarded to the officers for courage in the line of duty and pay raises.

[Edge-]

that reminds me... what happened to those who shot a man that was given conflicting commands? one told him to stay put or lie down and another told him to crawl to them and then they shot him because he just followed the command by one officer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

Daniel Shaver? If this is what you're thinking of, the cop got his pension, and then got disability insurance on top of that for the "PTSD" he was suffering from murdering a man in cold blood. Funded by local taxpayers.

[Masark]

what was the reason for qualified immunity to be implemented in the first place?

So police could enforce obviously or even factually unconstitutional racist laws without fear of reprisal.

[Polyxo]

Basically, literally anything the officer decides offends them. "You insulted my dear, sweet mama? I'm gonna beat your face in and then get you a prison sentence, fucko."

Totally fascist bullshit.

I've had a lot of interactions with police, and I don't think it's fascism. They're not acting like assholes on behalf of some ideal of a fascist state. It's closer to some latent idea of nobility/knighthood where peasants and burghers owe them absolute deference, or they have the right to exact satisfaction on their lessers. Interestingly, outside of some wars (for knights) and some crises (for cops), both knights and cops were mostly a menace to society during a lot of periods.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I've had a lot of interactions with police, and I don't think it's fascism. They're not acting like assholes on behalf of some ideal of a fascist state. It's closer to some latent idea of nobility/knighthood where peasants and burghers owe them absolute deference, or they have the right to exact satisfaction on their lessers.

That seems a lot like someone describing a fascist.

[Polyxo]

That seems a lot like someone describing a fascist.

I dunno, the difference I think would be that the fascist demands some kind of deference to state, and cops just demand deference to themselves personally.

[ParanoiD84]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

Daniel Shaver? If this is what you're thinking of, the cop got his pension, and then got disability insurance on top of that for the "PTSD" he was suffering from murdering a man in cold blood. Funded by local taxpayers.

That cop should be doing along time in prison. Certainly not be granted retirement and getting a pension of $2,500 per month that's just a big joke.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I dunno, the difference I think would be that the fascist demands some kind of deference to state, and cops just demand deference to themselves personally.

It's more about authoritarianism in any form. In their case it's the badge that makes them believe that they are owed absolute deference.

[Mayhem]

That cop should be doing along time in prison. Certainly not be granted retirement and getting a pension of $2,500 per month that's just a big joke.

Joke certainly wasn't the word that came to my mind reading about this months ago.

[Endus]

I dunno, the difference I think would be that the fascist demands some kind of deference to state, and cops just demand deference to themselves personally.

They're representatives of the State, directly, so it's pretty much the same thing, honestly.

[Hilhen7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver

Daniel Shaver? If this is what you're thinking of, the cop got his pension, and then got disability insurance on top of that for the "PTSD" he was suffering from murdering a man in cold blood. Funded by local taxpayers.

It's like paying the mob protection money just to have them burn down your shop and kill you anyway because they feel you looked at them funny, or maybe they happened to be in a bad mood.

[Edge-]

https://www.wbtw.com/palmettopotwar/...l-rights-case/

Topical given that John Oliver recently did an episode on police drug raids and how ludicrously expensive, pointless, and dangerous they are and how the only people they seem to benefit are the John Rambo-style cops that enjoy watching video of how fuckin cool they looked when they broke down the door to the wrong house, tossed a flashbang into a room with a family, and then pointed guns and screamed at everyone for 5 minutes before slowly realizing they weren't even at the right fuckin location.

Vet pulled over with some weed ash, turns in dealer, cops break in to an unlocked door and shoot the guy 9 times, paralyzing him permanently. He was armed, but did not shoot first. Cops did. And lied about it. Like they lied about knocking on the door and identifying themselves. And everything else.

He got $11M in taxpayer dollars that should have come out of these officers pension funds, and the pension funds for the department and any related agency involved in this "operation". He's still paralyzed from the waste down.

The officers are not facing any consequences, including criminal charges, and at least one is still a working law enforcement officer.

That these officers weren't penalized for literally collectively lying about a botched raid that left a man paralyzed continues to be a reason why I support wholesale defunding of the police so that forces can be rebuilt from scratch to weed out the weekend-warrior, ex-highschool bully that peaked in junior year, small-dick energy cops that think that going on a raid is just the fuckin coolest thing ever.

[Themius]

Guess which state wants to put you in jail for three months for "insulting" cops

https://www.wave3.com/2021/03/05/ken...lice-officers/

By Tori Gessner | March 5, 2021 at 2:59 PM EST - Updated March 8 at 10:36 AM
LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WAVE) - A bill which advanced out of a Senate Committee on Thursday would make it illegal to insult or taunt a law enforcement officer to the point where it could provoke a violent response.

Senate Bill 211 is sponsored by retired police officer, Sen. Danny Carroll, R-Benton, in response to the violence and vandalism both in Louisville last summer and on Capitol Hill earlier this year.

“This (bill) is not about lawful protest in any way, shape, form, or fashion,” Carroll said. “This country was built on lawful protest and it’s something we must maintain our citizens’ right to do so. What this deals with are those who cross the line and commit criminal acts,” he continued. “If you see the riots, you see people getting in these officers faces, yelling in their ears, doing anything they can to provoke a violent response,” Carroll said. "

According to Carroll, the bill’s goal is to protect first responders, the public and both public and private property.

“I think there is absolutely a need for this,” Carroll said. “The need crosses political lines, it crosses racial lines; it’s not aimed at any particular segment of this commonwealth, of any community.”

[Hilhen7]

Guess which state wants to put you in jail for three months for "insulting" cops

https://www.wave3.com/2021/03/05/ken...lice-officers/

Classic. Not only can the officer claim you PROVOKED him so he had to beat you down, you get jail time added on top of that.

Wonder how they works for a normal citizen when they claim they where provoked into attacking another citizen....

[Edge-]

Guess which state wants to put you in jail for three months for "insulting" cops

https://www.wave3.com/2021/03/05/ken...lice-officers/

I LOVE the actual text of the bill -

21 (e) Accosts, insults, taunts, or challenges a law enforcement officer with offensive or derisive words, or by gestures or other physical contact, that would have a direct tendency to provoke a violent response from the perspective of a reasonable and prudent person

I genuinely want this to go to court so we can start establishing precedent and case-law relating to when it is perfectly legal to assault someone for saying you have a small peepee.

This is the biggest small-dick energy I've seen in a long, long while and if I lived in the state I'd call up ever member of Congress that voted for it to ask about their small peepee's, and I'd make it a point to ask every officer about their small peepee in order to see if we could get the ball rolling with this. Seriously, will telling an officer they have a microdick enough to justify a cop assaulting and arresting me? LET'S FUCKIN FIND OUT.

Though I'll say this: It seems like a GREAT excuse for any officer of color to go to town on a racist fuck hurling slurs at them. So maybe there will be a silver lining to it?

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.axios.com/supreme-court-...f59e6fec2.html

And the cowardly SCOTUS doesn't even want to touch qualified immunity, ignoring that it was their own institution that created said notion decades ago. You'd figure they'd be a little leery of leaving Judicial legislation in place since that's the realm of the Legislature, but oh well. I guess we can't touch politically sensitive issues that may...have no actual personal consequences since they're on the court for life.

[wunksta]

https://www.wbtw.com/palmettopotwar/...l-rights-case/

Topical given that John Oliver recently did an episode on police drug raids and how ludicrously expensive, pointless, and dangerous they are and how the only people they seem to benefit are the John Rambo-style cops that enjoy watching video of how fuckin cool they looked when they broke down the door to the wrong house, tossed a flashbang into a room with a family, and then pointed guns and screamed at everyone for 5 minutes before slowly realizing they weren't even at the right fuckin location.

Didn't watch but these raids are also not very effective and usually don't result in any arrests or find illegal drugs or weapons.
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/they-ha...top-bad-raids/