FFXIV the worst game I've tried in a while

[Hyral]

The same reason that anyone who enjoys difficulty chooses hard over easy. Because they enjoy it, and it's the challenge they strive to overcome, not the gear they obtain.



As opposed to what? Having a single dungeon per patch that drops barely relevant gear? A dungeon which has no challenge whatsoever? Fair enough I guess, but I would personally demand more from dungeon content than something I could do in my sleep with one arm and three fingers.



That's all a matter of opinion of course, but as I said above, there's little or nothing to FFXIV's dungeons that make them any sort of challenge at all, so to knock one for trying to introduce that challenge in basic content so people can choose their level of difficulty is very unfair.


Well you kind of are judging already. I'm not exactly a fan of any of those games but even I cannot deny that the're often highly competitive pvp titles that appeal to people that enjoy overcoming the challenge of better and better players. That's what pvp is supposed to be about. As far as it being mindlessly repetitive, what exactly makes it repetitive, but not final fantasy 14? There's quite literally no way for pve content not to be repetitive by its very nature. You do the same dance, in the same way every time with little to no deviation. I've often spoken to people who enjoy pvp games because there's always a different opponent to face, which keeps it fresh. I don't think you're being completely honest here.


I haven't either tbh. Even in situations where it needed to be said. Someone said it in another post somewhere but FFXIV has an issue where problems being discussed and aired out in the open are discouraged heavily, to the point where people are afraid to voice any concerns at all and groups would rather not talk to one another at all than make waves. That's extremely passive aggressive, and an unhealthy cultural issue imo.

I just checked that whole reply thread and I could be wrong but I don't think that guy at any moment compared M+ to FF dungeons or implied FF is better. I think he's just saying he doesn't like M+ and finds it dull, and that it encourages bad dungeon design. I really agree, would rather get more new and difficult dungeons being added with patches than just having to grind the same ones for two years with randomized effects and increased numbers. FFXIV has nothing to do with that opinion.

[Swnem]

I totally disagree. That is what makes it better in terms of class design.

WoW's anemic 3-4 button classes are what got you used to faceroll. Executing a rotation perfectly is one of the most rewarding things for me in FFXIV.

I honestly thought you were gonna say something about the leveling. I could agree with that. It's super boring!
Classes though, are a joy to play at max level and the animations are awesome.

Honestly, if the gcd wasn't so long, it would be perfect.

[Musta]

Sounds like a "You suck" problem more than a "Game problem"

This ^^^^^^^^^^

[DeltrusDisc]

The bolded comment here just shows you arent playing BFA endgame right now. Like it really just shows.

There is literally no hard mechanics in Nyalotha as i already said. The game was objectively dumbed down for people like you from pandaria and WoD.

I hate it. I absolutely think it sucks that your rotation is so simple that we cant tell good people from bad people

Hey.
Keep Pandaria out of the same sentence as WoD and BfA!
No, I didn't start in Pandaria, or Cata, or even Wrath.

Frankly, I wish I raided more during Pandaria, it actually seemed to be a high for the game. (14 months of SoO aside...)

[Rogalicus]

Executing a rotation perfectly is one of the most rewarding things for me in FFXIV.

That's what some people dislike, your only input is executing rotation that already was created for you down to every single GCD. That's like working at conveyor belt, only you actually pay for it.

[KrayZ33]

That's what some people dislike, your only input is executing rotation that already was created for you down to every single GCD. That's like working at conveyor belt, only you actually pay for it.

No reason to find an odd negative comparison when it's just a different/a certain design
You/they would have to say the same thing about Beatsaber or other rythm games then.
Or most Kaizo levels in Super Mario etc.

[Rogalicus]

No reason to find an odd negative comparison when it's just a different/a certain design
You/they would have to say the same thing about Beatsaber or other rythm games then.
Or most Kaizo levels in Super Mario etc.

You don't have to play the same track in Beat Saber for years. No idea about Super Mario, never played past first few levels of first SMB.

[Advent]

I just checked that whole reply thread and I could be wrong but I don't think that guy at any moment compared M+ to FF dungeons or implied FF is better. I think he's just saying he doesn't like M+ and finds it dull, and that it encourages bad dungeon design. I really agree, would rather get more new and difficult dungeons being added with patches than just having to grind the same ones for two years with randomized effects and increased numbers. FFXIV has nothing to do with that opinion.

And I'm saying that no relevant MMO does this. WoW comes closest, because making enough challenging dungeons per patch has become impossible. At the very least, you're not twiddling your thumbs hoping they add 4 or 5 dungeons per patch so you don't get bored with what has become a cakewalk with the old ones. I'd rather have dungeons remain relevant throughout an expansion because they're difficult the whole time than be stuck with faceroll stuff, because that's the alternative.

[KrayZ33]

You don't have to play the same track in Beat Saber for years. No idea about Super Mario, never played past first few levels of first SMB.

You also don't have to play the same job all the time. So you only have fewer tracks to choose.
What I wanted to point out is that there are other games with predetermined move-sets and it's all about how well you execute those.

By making these example comparisons it's kinda like you are just taking away all the objectivity of your statement.

[Lazuli]

Play WoW's superior 2-3 button rotation then? I'm sorry the game requires prefrontal cortex usage, redmage is one of the easiest classes next to dancer, so maybe try dancer. Though I doubt this post is for real..

[Rogalicus]

You also don't have to play the same job all the time. So you only have fewer tracks to choose.
What I wanted to point out is that there are other games with predetermined move-sets and it's all about how well you execute those.

By making these example comparisons it's kinda like you are just taking away all the objectivity of your statement.

I mean, comparing low CPM of FFXIV to something like this is not much more objective.

[KrayZ33]

I mean, comparing low CPM of FFXIV to something like this is not much more objective.

Yeah, because Beatsaber only has these songs and not slower ones and lets just pretend FFXIV is work that is known to cause several health issues and not just a fun hobby.
I shouldn't have bothered talking to you. As your posting (that specific underhas shown already, you are against that type of mechanic/design and you just wanted to say that and leave some snarky statements to rile up some comments.

Jesus Christ, is it so hard to admit that the comparison was uncalled for. What a douché. Just why?

[Delever]

Happens all the time on M+ runs. Probably less now because it's easier atm.
Never seen anyone say anything negative at all in a normal dungeon run in FFXIV. No one cares whether the healer heals or deals damage, or if the tank pulls slowly or all groups or just one group.
So if anything. Both games are pretty tame. FFXIV is certainly not worse, especially since people get timeouts for being toxic.

This is the type of delusion that has led to the nurturing of the current community that plagues XIV. No one talks in dungeons, if you tell the healers to dps they can report you and say they felt harassed and you ll get suspended or warned. You cannot mention dps or again you will get banned as they dont allow parsers. FFXIV community is not less toxic. In fact its a shit ton more toxic. You can never express your frustration which ends up piling up causing people to act in very annoying passive agressive ways to be toxic instead of getting it out of their systems.
And just like in Japanese culture. Instead of adressing the problems, we pretend they dont exist and go "lalalalalala cmmunity is perfect" with our fingers in our ears because you re literally not allowed to talk about problems. If a guy annoys me because hes a BRD spamming 1 skill in dungeons I cant say shit. What I can do however as a tank is pull the pack, hold on to aggro and not dps. Which hillariously enough is not reportable but telling him to press his buttons is.
You tell me which one is worse. And these are examples that I ve both encountered in game more than once.
Usually instead of flaming, XIV players will instead resort in petty behaviour out of fear of getting suspended if they actually speak.

[KrayZ33]

This is the type of delusion that has led to the nurturing of the current community that plagues XIV. No one talks in dungeons, if you tell the healers to dps they can report you and say they felt harassed and you ll get suspended or warned. You cannot mention dps or again you will get banned as they dont allow parsers. FFXIV community is not less toxic. In fact its a shit ton more toxic. You can never express your frustration which ends up piling up causing people to act in very annoying passive agressive ways to be toxic instead of getting it out of their systems.
And just like in Japanese culture. Instead of adressing the problems, we pretend they dont exist and go "lalalalalala cmmunity is perfect" with our fingers in our ears because you re literally not allowed to talk about problems. If a guy annoys me because hes a BRD spamming 1 skill in dungeons I cant say shit. What I can do however as a tank is pull the pack, hold on to aggro and not dps. Which hillariously enough is not reportable but telling him to press his buttons is.
You tell me which one is worse. And these are examples that I ve both encountered in game more than once.
Usually instead of flaming, XIV players will instead resort in petty behaviour out of fear of getting suspended if they actually speak.

It might be the case that some guys have problems with that.
There are also a lot of people who simply don't care and don't want to be bothered.

I don't need cutting edge perfection in my dungeon runs. I get "annoyed" by healers that don't use DPS, yes, but I don't even care *remotely* enough to call them out on that in game. Whether it is "bannable", which it's not btw unless you are being pesky about it (and you won't get a ban the first time you do it anyway), doesn't matter.
It sure as hell is a less toxic experience for me to play this game when no one tries to nitpick the other player and I have a silent dungeon run in peace without some soap-drama. It's also more relaxing for me when I know that the person, whether it's a kid or an adult, can just play the way he wants without getting bothered by assholes that demand shit from him/her.
"WHY DIDN'T YOU REVIVE ME?! WHAT KIND OF AIM IS THAT? WHY DID YOU MOVE IN THERE" etc. etc.
It's that typical behaviour that turns me off and grosses me out completely whenever I encounter it. It leads to teams self-exploding, making weird calls and doing weird shit. Everyone feels bad after such a session and no one gained anything.

"Healer, can you deal damage to make this run go faster?" - "No"
*done*
Everything has been said then and there is no need to go back and forth as to why he should or shouldn't. Neither in WoW nor FFXIV nor CS or Valorant.

This flipping meme has being going on long before FFXIV GMs even decided to react to such reports. Before the beginning (or end?) of 2019. People were scared of "bans" and "arnings" even though GMs wouldn't solve such problems between players, because just like in WoW, they'd tell you "you can leave the group or talk it out". The policy change was rather recent.

Why is it such a problem for people to not behave like a dick and accept the fact that the other guy might be 80 years or 10 years old and simply can't handle it any other way. Or accept the fact that he has fun the way he is playing his character. Why do people want to be a dick and prevent that? If you want to be a dick you can then start to deal less DPS if you think you make a point then. In the end however, you aren't and you are just hitting yourself. So stop hitting yourself guys...

[Delever]

It might be the case that some guys have problems with that.
There are also a lot of people who simply don't care and don't want to be bothered.

I don't need cutting edge perfection in my dungeon runs. I get "annoyed" by healers that don't use DPS, yes, but I don't even care *remotely* enough to call them out on that in game. Whether it's a "bannable", which it's not btw unless you are being pesky about it (and you won't get a ban the first time you do it anyway), doesn't matter.
It sure as hel is a less toxic experience for me to play this game when no one tries to nitpick the other player and I have a silent dungeon run in peace without some soap-drama.

"Healer, can you deal damage to make this run go faster?" - "No"
*done*
Everything has been said then and there is no need to go back and forth as to why he should or shouldn't.

Healer dps was an example to say how even mentioning that they could dps could potentially give you a warning as long as the other person is having a bad day. What I wanted to pinpoint which you strategically ignored is the passive agressive toxic behavior which involves no talking and yet is a hell of a lot worse than if someone flames you and is absolutely not bannable whatsoever.
I repeat. Do you not consider it a problem that if I feel annoyed as a tank I can go pick up packs and use my aoe combo twice to hold on to aggro and then do nothing while having 0 fear of being reported while I as the same tank can report the player that complains about my toxic behavior?
One acted in a toxic manner and one spoke and the only one getting punished is the one that pointed out my toxic bullshit.
When you get that bard that spamms 1 button because he doesnt want to deal with the rest of his rotation and he reports you for pointing out that he can use more and the company punishes you while patting the bard on the back, that bard has absolutely no reason to change the way he plays (not to cutting edge but to a normal human being playstyle). The bard will keep on playing as the company endorses his behavior while the players annoyed by this will eventually leave as the community % distribution starts to lean more towards the bards attitude (not to the same extreme but still). This has slowly been happening since early heavensward but I was also too blind to see it back then due to my enthusiasm for the game. Come shadowbringers and this has become a huge problem.

[Ragnarohk]

I can't begin to explain how bad this game feels. I mean, the story is good and all and if that is your jam, then you will probably like it. But if you want to raid, you need to be a pianist and able to press 30 buttons like a melody. That is how complicated the rotations are! It really shows one of the best things about wow: The simple rotations!

How is it as a healer? I've been wanting to try Astrologian

[Delever]

It might be the case that some guys have problems with that.
There are also a lot of people who simply don't care and don't want to be bothered.

I don't need cutting edge perfection in my dungeon runs. I get "annoyed" by healers that don't use DPS, yes, but I don't even care *remotely* enough to call them out on that in game. Whether it is "bannable", which it's not btw unless you are being pesky about it (and you won't get a ban the first time you do it anyway), doesn't matter.
It sure as hell is a less toxic experience for me to play this game when no one tries to nitpick the other player and I have a silent dungeon run in peace without some soap-drama.

"Healer, can you deal damage to make this run go faster?" - "No"
*done*
Everything has been said then and there is no need to go back and forth as to why he should or shouldn't. Neither in WoW nor FFXIV nor CS or Valorant.

This flipping meme has being going on long before FFXIV GMs even decided to react to such reports. Before the beginning (or end?) of 2019. People were scared of "bans" and "arnings" even though GMs wouldn't solve such problems between players, because just like in WoW, they'd tell you "you can leave the group or talk it out". The policy change was rather recent.

Why is it such a problem for people to not behave like a dick and accept the fact that the other guy might be 80 years or 10 years old and simply can't handle it any other way. Or accept the fact that he has fun the way he is playing his character. Why do people want to be a dick and prevent that? If you want to be a dick you can then start to deal less DPS if you think you make a point then. In the end however, you aren't and you are just hitting yourself. So stop hitting yourself guys...

Because this is an online game where you play with other people. Its not oblivion or skyrim where you can go wacko with your character. Play your character as an ice BLM when you re doing fates or MSQ. Not when you re in a dungeon with 3 other poor souls that would rather not lose 15 extra minutes of their lives to forced stupidity.

[Dastreus]

I can't begin to explain how bad this game feels. I mean, the story is good and all and if that is your jam, then you will probably like it. But if you want to raid, you need to be a pianist and able to press 30 buttons like a melody. That is how complicated the rotations are! It really shows one of the best things about wow: The simple rotations!

Just play a tank. Dark Knight or Warrior have very short rotations. WoW-length rotations. I main dark knight, but don't mind other classes like Machinist and Red Mage, but yeah, dark knight could totally be more you. *Maybe* Paladin, but it gets complicated post 70.

- - - Updated - - -

How is it as a healer? I've been wanting to try Astrologian

Love Astrologian. Favorite healer. It's more than just pressing Stone while waiting for someone to need heals.

[KrayZ33]

Because this is an online game where you play with other people. Its not oblivion or skyrim where you can go wacko with your character. Play your character as an ice BLM when you re doing fates or MSQ. Not when you re in a dungeon with 3 other poor souls that would rather not lose 15 extra minutes of their lives to forced stupidity.

What kind of forced stupidity are you talking about, if they do it on purpose and try to grief, you can report them or even kick the guy, if they don't do it on purpose or simply prefer playing that way, who are you to judge.
You can also leave the group yourself, use party finder and all kinds of other stuff if you are unhappy with the draw you get.
You can Blacklist too.

The generic sentence "I'll get banned if I say something" is complete and utter bullshit. You won't flipping get banned or even warned if you manage to actual talk like a reasonable human being.

Come shadowbringers and this has become a huge problem.

How is it a "huge" problem, everyone has to do daily runs and you act like every roulette is filled with degeneracy.
You are just overreacting.
If you really played from ARR onwards you'd know that players actually got better and not worse. Healers that deal damage are also far more frequent than in the past.
I will surely not go as far and say it's the same difference between retail and classic, but it has not gotten worse.
Fearmongering about how "players have no voice anymore" is just garbage talk too.
You don't have a free card to be an asshole, that is all there is to it. You can always ask things or even demand things. Just accept a motherfucking "no" when the other players tells you to stop doing it or tells you that he is not doing it. The rest (i.e. a group kick) is up to the group.

[Sharby]

Weird to me that people compare toxic communities in both games.


In WoW you're allowed to be toxic as long as you don't tread the bigotry line, dps meters are also encouraged and more widely used, so naturally there will be higher expectations on performance that lead to an increase in toxicity, even more when you consider that DPS checks in WoW are very common.



FF14 is the complete opposite, people are rarely held to a standard and a vast majority of the playerbase is casual, hardcore players are niche. And I'd go as far as to say that even savage is probably pretty casual too, its just hard to get into because the pool of players is so tiny.


The people being garbage in your FF groups aren't garbage because they're toxic/spiteful, there's just no expectation for them to do more than what they want, because you can clear most everything just by being mediocre.



The only time I've ever encountered actual consistent toxicity in FF14 was during parse-runs because people's egos cause them to group wipe without caring because they're selfish. But that has no bearing on the community as a whole, which I find to be way nicer to newer and random players than WoW's.

Obviously there are exceptions but toxicity in FF14 is the exception, not the rule. And that's not me just being a fandboy, I actually dislike that the community is so babied, but I honestly prefer it to the mess that one has to go through in WoW if they don't have a guild atm.