Demons Only? Or Variety Summons?

[Skytotem]

Inspired by this bit...

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Legacy_of_...sters_(Part_1)

Read, pupil, and know that I am called Jubeka Shadowbreaker, and it is my duty to share some of the wisdom of our order with those who have the skill to read this document.

After the fall of Deathwing, it was clear that the sorcery of the warlocks was sorely lacking in bite when compared to the threats facing Azeroth. So our council of six warlocks gathered to discuss how best to investigate the new magics witnessed by these threats.

At first, the six of us refused to cooperate, tossing blame and bickering as easily as shadowbolts and curses. Finally, after several nights, the human Kanrethad spoke out:

"In the wake of the Cataclysm, the rising tensions between the Horde and Alliance have driven the greatest heroes of Azeroth to train for war. Warriors have readied their war banners, the Death Knights of Acherus have learned to control the undead and it is even said the Mages are researching ways to undo time itself."

" The relentless darkness which bathed Azeroth has been pushed back. Cho'gall is slain and the remnants of the Twilight's Hammer cult have been scattered. Ragnaros is defeated and his armies forced back into the Firelands. Deathwing lies torn apart and his twilight drakes obliterated. However, the powers they commanded are not so easily forgotten... powers untapped and ripe for the taking."

"In fact, among us now stands several who have faced their power firsthand," he said, pointing at a hooded figure across the room. A deep, sinister laugh echoed from the hood as it burst into flames and burned away to reveal the orc enchanter, Ritssyn.

"It is true, pink skin, I was there when the Firelord was vanquished. The intensity of his flame was unlike anything you can imagine." the burning glow of Ritssyn's eyes cast eerie shadows over his burn-scarred face and thick-tusked grin.

"Untrue," spat a sharp, feminine voice. Shinfel, a Blood Elf adorned with sharp spikes of twilight elementium, glared across the table, "Until you've been a prisoner within your own mind, you know nothing of horror." Shinfel's blood had been corrupted during the fight with Cho'gall and her arms were now covered in black marks left behind by the corruption that had erupted from her skin. The experience had only served to increase the intensity of her sadism.

Shinfel continued, "Even the Firelord's flames were overshadowed by the raw chaos unleashed by the Destroyer." She paused a moment and glanced to the worgen who remained eerily silent. Zinnin had been present when Deathwing was unmade and had not spoken a word since. Zinnin's eyes narrowed for a moment, then snarled at Ritssyn.

Kanrethad stood up from the table and took a deep breath. "This is exactly why we are here. I have no love for any of you, but we each bore witness to pieces of even greater power. Imagine - if we fused the molten fury of the Firelands with the unstoppable chaos of Deathwing. Even the powers of the burning legion could not hold a candle to our flames!"

Ritssyn kicked his boots upon the table and snickered, "And just who would do this? You?" he spat. "I think not. You haven't been seen in battle since the siege of the Black Temple. If it weren't for having shared the secrets of Illidan's transformation with this council, I would kill you just for having the audacity of summoning me."

Kanrethad's lips pursed for a moment, but he relaxed and continued. "No. The scope of this task exceeds the capabilities of any single member here. I propose this council split into pairs. Ritssyn and Zinnin would lead a group into Sulfuras. Similarly, Shinfel and Zelifrax would hunt down the remaining members of the Twilight's Hammer cult and ... persuade them to share what they learned."

The pock-faced gnome applauded with mirthful glee.

Kanrethad continued, "Then we return... one year from now and take the results of our expeditions back to our own sects, more powerful than we would have been alone."

Ritssyn frowned as he saw the greed drawn out in the human's words dance across the council's faces. "And what would keep us from simply killing our partner in their sleep once it was a success?"

Kanrethad's brow furrowed and he growled, "Which is why we swear that if any member of this council breaks the contract and fails to return or returns alone, the others shall strike them down and banish their soul forever. We either succeed together or die alone."

Ritssyn was a powerful warlock, and could probably defeat Kanrethad by himself. But against all five of us? We all saw his hesitation. We all let our hands drift toward our scrolls and weapons.

"Fine," Ritssyn reluctantly agreed. "I can play along with your fool's errand, but first I must know, where will you and that miserable forsaken, Jubeka, be going?"

"Me?" spoke Kanrethad with a wicked grin. "Why I'm returning... to Outland."

Simple question, I'm curious if people really identify warlocks with being "Demons Only" or if they're interested in seeing them work with other kinds of taboo magic. Troll Undead, Scourge necromancy, Faceless aberrations, Drust Wicker Constructs... would you like to see cosmetic glyphs or "Unlockables" of some kind that let you switch out your demons and some of your spells for other, mechanically identical, but visually distinct minions?

[Zylos]

This is part of the warlock green fire questline. Memory is a bit hazy but the story generally describes why warlocks learned the new spells that they did after cataclysm, I don't remember all of the spells in particular but I'm pretty sure part of it was the then talent "grimoire of supremacy" which gave a different stronger set of demons, (this was during MoP)

The point is the quest wasn't about non-demon/fel related magic. It was merely explaining some of the history of where warlocks were learning new powers from.

The rest of the quest line went on to reveal that Kanrethad had become corrupted in his quest for power and you had to help Jubeka stop him (spoiler you steal his green fire power from him)

[Razion]

If this was in general a more broad and free-to-interpretation game, a variety summoner would be cool as a base class and practically I see no reason for Warlocks to not functionally work like this in the universe as is when they can already summon any manner of player already so there seems no real limit to what they can summon already beyond maybe their targets having souls or something. That said, while in theory and concept it's a nice idea it may kind of detract from other classes if Warlocks were able to suddenly summon, say, hoards of elementals or something. Like, shouldn't a Shaman be better at summoning elementals? That kind of thing. It's probably a lot easier to justify options other classes don't have explicit dominion over, though. Things like Drust or Abberations could probably go to Warlocks without much heartache (much). While I personally see Warlocks as a dark caster and summoner class, I don't think everyone would accept Undead for Warlocks because they may feel it steps on the toes of a potential future Neromancer class which could more have its own identity.

[Zantos]

Honestly, I want to be able to speak with the demons. At least being able to click on them to interact would be nice. That is why I absolutely loved the green fire quest line. It really hammered home that these demons are not mindless. They are simply bound to the warlocks will at that moment, but have free thought and will.

[Fewane]

While I clicked "Demons only" and would prerer a wider variety of demons (plus demon studio finally ), having cosmetic glyphs allowing for a Scourge necromancer aesthetics would be a nice alternative.

(The green fire questline was an all time favourite in WoW for me, I'd so much want more lcontent ike that)

[Kathranis]

Warlocks practice fel magic, so at least as it currently stands, other types of minions would be contradictory to the class fantasy. I'd only want it expanded beyond demons if it came as part of some sort of "class skin" like others have suggested from time to time.

That said, improved customization for demon minions would be greatly appreciated. Compared to hunter pets and druid forms, for example, there really is a dearth of options available to warlocks despite their minions being just as integral to their class fantasy; a few glyphs really aren't cutting it for me.

IMO they should get their own demon contract system that lets them at the very least choose from different models and skins. Swap it around so that instead of specific demons, there are demon types. Make it a sort of minigame where you can seek out and recruit specific demons.

Familiars: Imps, Gan'arg, Wyrmtongues
Sentinels: Voidwalkers, Mo'arg, Eredar
Watchers: Felhounds, Inquisitors, Observers
Tormentors: Sayaadi, Shivaara, Aranasi

Something like that for a start, maybe.

[fatgunn]

One of the things I find interesting about warlocks in WoW is that very few began as warlocks. Almost all the major lore Warlocks were originally shamans or mages that sought out more power and turned to the fel. While I do feel warlocks should definitely be summoning demons, I feel the definition of a demon in WoW is already a pretty vast expanse to pick from. There are several demons already in game that we don't get to utilize: Inquistors, Pit Lords, Vilefiends, Wyrmtongues..... There's also the fact that both Voidwalkers and Infernals are, at least visually, more elemental than demonic. As such there is no reason we couldn't summon felfire elementals.

So while I think we should be limited to demons, I also feel that we should have a lot more options of demon.




Also, most of the demons we already have are available in a variety of colors, could we please change ours!

[rhorle]

Warlocks should remain focused on demons. If WoW ever gets a second class system then sure they can branch out into other related things. But the kit is demon focused and should remain that way. Since classes do not exist in lore they are free to branch out to develop power of certain Warlocks but it should all related back to Fel/Demons.

I already think Affliction and Destro have a little bit of an identity problem when relating to "Demons". Adding more to the mix would mean they would need major re-writes to fit the new class type since Demonology would clear remain demon-focused. The council was a way for Blizzard to sort of create an in-game reason why Warlocks all had the same powers. Kanrethad still has meta while the class "lost" it.

Legion was a missed opportunity though to branch out Demons. They fleshed out types some more but we never utilized it beyond a few glyphs. It was a shame and Warlocks need more of a system like Hunters.

[Squigglyo]

Whats stopping Warlocks from looking into Magic from other sources?
Shadow? Earth? Even Light?


Are Warlocks, inherintly attuned to Fel and Demons? Or are they magically attuned who looked into the darker things that Mage's dont?

I see no reason a Warlock couldnt look into other schools of Magic lorewise. But Gamewise, you could probably only justify 1 additional school.


With that said, we have seen Warlock NPCs having stronger demons than players. The Warlock in ToC comes to mind, while he lost his grip on the demon, he must had succeeded with such a strong demon in the past, or at least thought he was close.
So, could a strong enough Warlock summon a Dread Lord?
If so, they could summon a Light Infused Dread Lord like Lothraxion?
If so, their powers arent restricted to Fel based Demons, and thus not neccesarily restricted to Fel based Magic.

[Gaidax]

IMO, there should be some middle ground.

On one hand there is a strong connection to demonic magic, because it's a very readily available magic juice and Warlocks are all about cutting corners when it comes to magic. On the other hand, however, Warlocks are not exactly some sort of "discipline" archetype - it's like magical rogue - everything goes for power.

If there is a readily available Void or Death font of power, I don't see why Warlocks would not want to tap into it, aside from maybe compatibility issue like Void/Fel going boom. Heck, Light too, TBC Blood Elf style would go.

I think it's ok to have Warlocks identify with Demons, because connection is strong there, but there is certainly no hard restriction there.

[enigma77]

Undeads would work, Fel Magic can raise things into Undeath, Gul'dan created Death Knights, but there would be unnecessary thematic overlap with Death Knights.

[cocomen2]

If you gonna summon Pony, class would require rename into Ponymaster.

[Cyanu]

I always thought that warlock tap into the greatest source of power what ever that is

They re not devotees of the legion, sworn to chaos or anything... Just spell casters that seek power at all costs

So yeah, necromancy, void, Elemental Fire what ever...

[kuhntasmash]

Deep into the Shadowlands expansion, I would like to see some spell cosmetic glyphs for sticking with the covenant.

Having a Necrolord warlock have more of a Necromancer summoner themed
or an Archfae warlock for Night fae.

[LordVargK]

Honestly, I want to be able to speak with the demons. At least being able to click on them to interact would be nice. That is why I absolutely loved the green fire quest line. It really hammered home that these demons are not mindless. They are simply bound to the warlocks will at that moment, but have free thought and will.

I mean, Demons speak frequently with you in Classic. Don't know why (and when) that was removed in retail...

[Syegfryed]

what you consider demons though, cause the voidwalker by example isn't a "demon" per see, not like the others based on fel magic from the nether, he is a "demon from the void"

we have demons based around the void, i would not mind at all

summon undead is for necromancer as a standalone thing, elementals for shamans and all