Why is Theramore seen as unjustified?

[StaeleAilar]

The only part I know for certain is the attack on Honor Point at the Barrens/Stonetalon border happened right at the Cataclysm, as the Alliance forces used the earthquakes to take the area.

Blowing up a civilian city that has been evacuated of civilians and is now filled purely with military forces is not a war crime.

Perhaps, but at the same time the evacuated citizens were captured by boats at sea, taken to Org and used as target dummies/made to kill eachother. I dunno. It's pretty war crimey still.

[cparle87]

Perhaps, but at the same time the evacuated citizens were captured by boats at sea, taken to Org and used as target dummies/made to kill eachother. I dunno. It's pretty war crimey still.

Yeah, but the actual nuking of the city wasn't, since there were no civilians. That's what people miss.

[Raisei]

Yeah, but the actual nuking of the city wasn't, since there were no civilians. That's what people miss.

No civilians, hm? Take a walk through Dalaran around 9 o'clock, wait for the gnome to light the lanterns.

Unless we do not count a teenage gnome girl as civilian anymore because she was an apprentice to Jaina. Or was this child that could barely conjure a cookie such a danger to the Horde that she is a legitimate target now?

And regardless how you try to seperate it, what the Horde did to Theramore's civilian population is disgusting. First destroying their home, making it unlivable for generations, then, because the Horde's honor was not sated, they had to capture the civilians and murder them in sadistic ways for no reason. No matter how you try to disassemble these events, they belong together and mark one of the biggest warcrimes the Horde has commited. This is simply a fact.

[Super Dickmann]

No civilians, hm? Take a walk through Dalaran around 9 o'clock, wait for the gnome to light the lanterns.

Unless we do not count a teenage gnome girl as civilian anymore because she was an apprentice to Jaina. Or was this child that could barely conjure a cookie such a danger to the Horde that she is a legitimate target now?

And regardless how you try to seperate it, what the Horde did to Theramore's civilian population is disgusting. First destroying their home, making it unlivable for generations, then, because the Horde's honor was not sated, they had to capture the civilians and murder them in sadistic ways for no reason. No matter how you try to disassemble these events, they belong together and mark one of the biggest warcrimes the Horde has commited. This is simply a fact.

Over-emotive nonsense. She stayed there knowing there'd be an invasion of the place and every civilian got evacuated, accepting in the process that she was a combatant. It being a perky pink-haired gnome doesn't change this. If anything, getting nuked is an instant death as compared to being chopped up by an axe or set on fire. But let's disregard this and pretend this one bint was a civilian - it still makes no difference. Invading any city, which is both a military staging area and living space will make civilians collateral in the process, that's just how war works. It's like claiming Jaina is a war criminal for that one orc's eyes being poked out by her troops over in Honor's Stand. That Theramore only had civilian casualties after the fact in a separate raid in fact elevates it well beyond just about any similar engagement in the setting or out.

More so than that, the nabbing of civilians took place afterwards and we see a handful of people, with the evacuation having been described as massively successful in Tides of War.

[Malikath]

Not true-

Other then the fact that the argent crusade founded a tournament to foster peace between the factions, that would be so,

But as is, it isn't.
Garrosh restarted the war in the wake of the cataclysm after thrall yeeted himself into Garrosh's then girlfriend's maelstrom.

So, not only is you wrong, you lying for a cuck.

Infracted.

[Super Dickmann]

Other then the fact that the argent crusade founded a tournament to foster peace between the factions, that would be so,

But as is, it isn't.
Garrosh restarted the war in the wake of the cataclysm after thrall yeeted himself into Garrosh's then girlfriend's maelstrom.

So, not only is you wrong, you lying for a cuck.

Aggra and Garrosh have no relation, possibly because even in his emo phase he knew better. And besides, only one Warchief's son is brown, and it's not the one where the father is too.

Then again, we never see Garrosh with anyone, so while he's not a cuck, he might be a virgin. Questions to ponder, much like whether Illidan ever got laid or orbited Tyrande for 10k years before being stuck in space jail with Sargeras.

[Malikath]

Then again, we never see Garrosh with anyone, so while he's not a cuck, he might be a virgin. Questions to ponder, much like whether Illidan ever got laid or orbited Tyrande for 10k years before being stuck in space jail with Sargeras.

bruh, have you EVER done black temple?! There is an entire WING!

[Super Dickmann]

bruh, have you EVER done black temple?! There is an entire WING!

Yes, but did he ever use them? I haven't read the Illidan book myself, but I've heard that he kept them around for his followers while he purposefully stayed celibate.

[Syegfryed]

Other then the fact that the argent crusade founded a tournament to foster peace between the factions, that would be so,

But as is, it isn't.
Garrosh restarted the war in the wake of the cataclysm after thrall yeeted himself into Garrosh's then girlfriend's maelstrom.

So, not only is you wrong, you lying for a cuck.

what? who started the war was Varian and alliance forces restarted, one day before the cataclysm soldiers came out from northwatch and take over honor stand

- - - Updated - - -

Then again, we never see Garrosh with anyone, so while he's not a cuck, he might be a virgin. Questions to ponder,

Garrosh 100% banged Zaela

[Mehrunes]

With that kind of thinking, it is a pity that Jaina did not flood Orgrimmar then. It would have saved so many Alliance lives...

The timeline in which she proceder with the flooding ended with Alliance's utter annihilation.

[Super Dickmann]

Garrosh 100% banged Zaela

Let's hope she stashed some kids somewhere. The Horde needs them.

[ManiaCCC]

Why is Theramore seen as unjustified?

It isn't. We should do it again.

[Raisei]

Over-emotive nonsense. She stayed there knowing there'd be an invasion of the place and every civilian got evacuated, accepting in the process that she was a combatant. It being a perky pink-haired gnome doesn't change this. If anything, getting nuked is an instant death as compared to being chopped up by an axe or set on fire. But let's disregard this and pretend this one bint was a civilian - it still makes no difference. Invading any city, which is both a military staging area and living space will make civilians collateral in the process, that's just how war works. It's like claiming Jaina is a war criminal for that one orc's eyes being poked out by her troops over in Honor's Stand. That Theramore only had civilian casualties after the fact in a separate raid in fact elevates it well beyond just about any similar engagement in the setting or out.

The claim was that NO civilians were killed. Which is untrue, even if Kindy had accepted that possibility and stayed to help anyway, it does not make her less a civilian. Collateral damage is by definition what happens to civilians in a warzone. Though the word does not work well for this since it is usually used for "unintended" damage and Garrosh relished in every damage he could inflict.

[Super Dickmann]

The claim was that NO civilians were killed. Which is untrue, even if Kindy had accepted that possibility and stayed to help anyway, it does not make her less a civilian. Collateral damage is by definition what happens to civilians in a warzone. Though the word does not work well for this since it is usually used for "unintended" damage and Garrosh relished in every damage he could inflict.

It does - if I have no combat experience but pick up a rifle when my city is attacked, it'll be a shame when I'm riddled with bullets, but I'd still have been a combatant. Kinddy's state was like that - she decided to stick with Jaina and accepted risk of death. To expect the Horde to stall for one person or to treat it as being a major crime targeted towards civilians simply doesn't bear out. I've stated myself that I don't think Garrosh much cared if civilians were there, since as a concept that's iffy to orcs anyway, but he gave every opportunity for every non-combatant to leave which basically everyone did.

[ausoin]

.

The event being the result of being backed into a corner by the alliance forces that went through the portal....

Lol, you mean when Nerzhul formed a new Horde to conquer other words that offered less resistance then Azeroth and then he opened the Dark portal and attacked an Alliance keep, Nethergarde with a large army, ambushed and killed half of the army coming to reinforce Nethergarde and conducted raids against numerous key Alliance targets in order to get the various artifacts needed to power up the numerous portals to take over other worlds which just resulted in him destroying Dreanor?

- - - Updated - - -

The timeline in which she proceder with the flooding ended with Alliance's utter annihilation.

There are infinite timelines, Garrosh is said to be a great leader in most of them and evil in only a few like ours, Kairoz during the trial summoned the characters from one of its worst to fight their counterparts for Garrosh to escape in the chaos.

[Mehrunes]

There are infinite timelines, Garrosh is said to be a great leader in most of them and evil in only a few like ours, Kairoz during the trial summoned the characters from one of its worst to fight their counterparts for Garrosh to escape in the chaos.

That there are infinite timelines is neither here nor there in regards to what I said. And Kairoz summoned characters in their worst emotional state. In alternate Kalec's case it was the timeline in which Jaina died when the Horde ramped up its war effort to punish the flooding.

[ausoin]

That there are infinite timelines is neither here nor there in regards to what I said. And Kairoz summoned characters in their worst emotional state. In alternate Kalec's case it was the timeline in which Jaina died when the Horde ramped up its war effort to punish the flooding.

In one possible timeline, Jaina actions led to the destruction of the world and everybody who survived to go insane, but that's just one timeline, one possibility, just like Garrosh was a great leader in many timelines, we don't know what would have happened in our own timeline if Jaina went ahead and destroyed Ogrimmar.

[Mehrunes]

No civilians, hm? Take a walk through Dalaran around 9 o'clock, wait for the gnome to light the lanterns.

Unless we do not count a teenage gnome girl as civilian anymore because she was an apprentice to Jaina. Or was this child that could barely conjure a cookie such a danger to the Horde that she is a legitimate target now?

The civilians that decided to stay did so explicitly to take part in Theramore's defense. Making them combatants. Kinndy herself outright engaged in the fighting.

And regardless how you try to seperate it, what the Horde did to Theramore's civilian population is disgusting. First destroying their home, making it unlivable for generations, then, because the Horde's honor was not sated, they had to capture the civilians and murder them in sadistic ways for no reason. No matter how you try to disassemble these events, they belong together and mark one of the biggest warcrimes the Horde has commited. This is simply a fact.

"Regardless how you try to separate two different events they are one event. This is simply a fact. Alliance fact." Wondrous.

The claim was that NO civilians were killed. Which is untrue, even if Kindy had accepted that possibility and stayed to help anyway, it does not make her less a civilian. Collateral damage is by definition what happens to civilians in a warzone. Though the word does not work well for this since it is usually used for "unintended" damage and Garrosh relished in every damage he could inflict.

Except it does make her less of a civilian. Because it makes her not a civilian at all. Combatants aren't civilians anymore and they don't get the protection in war that civilians do. Kinda why the word "civilian" and the word "combatant" are two different words. With two different meanings, even! Who knew? So your statement that the claim no civilians were killed is untrue uses the same alternate concept of truth as your previous statement that two different event are one and how that is a "fact".

Over-emotive nonsense.

Say what now?

She stayed there knowing there'd be an invasion of the place and every civilian got evacuated, accepting in the process that she was a combatant. It being a perky pink-haired gnome doesn't change this. If anything, getting nuked is an instant death as compared to being chopped up by an axe or set on fire.

Yeah, this is a funny thing people bemoaning Theramore like to forget. Garrosh was hell-bent on flattening the city either way. Without the bomb he'd have just stormed it (probably without waiting for Alliance reinforcements, meaning that the civilians that wanted to flee would get no such opportunity) and just slaughtered everyone inside. Which is apparently so much better.

Other then the fact that the argent crusade founded a tournament to foster peace between the factions, that would be so,

But as is, it isn't.
Garrosh restarted the war in the wake of the cataclysm after thrall yeeted himself into Garrosh's then girlfriend's maelstrom.

So, not only is you wrong, you lying for a cuck.

You do realize the Argents completely failed at that, right? The Shattering explicitly confirmed there was no peace treaty after Wrath. Besides, @Derpleton was talking about who started the war. As such you talking about who restarted it is even less of a counterargument to what they said then your previous falsehood. Especially since you're wrong about who restarted it to boot, because Alliance offensive on the Barrens predates Garrosh's invasion of Ashenvale.

So if anyone's lying here it's definitely not Derpleton.

Perhaps, but at the same time the evacuated citizens were captured by boats at sea, taken to Org and used as target dummies/made to kill eachother. I dunno. It's pretty war crimey still.

Given how the civilians fled south, it's likely that they were captured in the naval battle off the coast of Tanaris Nazgrim mentions at the start of MoP. The capture and treatment of these civilians were wrong, but it's a separate action from the bombing.

[Ethas]

Blizzard had pretty much confirmed that the barrens conflict was started by North watch and co so I dont really see how it is a war crime

Jaina was pouring in legions of soldiers, steamtanks and ballista, burns down Taurajo and attacks the great gate, then garrosh has had enough, nukes it and suddenly it’s a war crime. «Innocents died». Innocents don’t matter in wow. There is a world quest where you run over like a thousand goblins with a dark iron golem and its seen as funny and hilarious

And Im not asking for a pissing contest about how much worse the horde has done, I am asking why its seen as a warcrime and not a legitimate military target *cough*

Because Alliance are crybabies and special snowflakes. Everything they do is right to them. If there weren’t any bias towards Alliance for several past years nobody would play this boring faction.

[Syegfryed]

In one possible timeline, Jaina actions led to the destruction of the world and everybody who survived to go insane, but that's just one timeline, one possibility, just like Garrosh was a great leader in many timelines, we don't know what would have happened in our own timeline if Jaina went ahead and destroyed Ogrimmar.

we kinda know because the flood of orgrimmar lead to a series of events, isn't like "who survived went insane"

first, the flood also killed Varian and destroyed all the alliance ships and forces who were coming to invade, it took the lives of the civilians more than soldiers or the horde army.
second, outraged the entire horde, seeing Garrosh was right and the horde committed fully to his cause, they were not doing before, even thrall would partake in the war.