Post mortem redemption, how is that even a possible?

[Cyanu]

So redemption arcs for our villains seem to be the hot topic and repetance is what determines their destination (and waystations)

so if you're a really good person you go to Bastion, if you're a really Green person you go to Ardenweald, if you're a morally grey person that spent his life fighting you end up to Maldraxus, so far so good

now if you're a really bad person you end up in Ravendreth so you can repent and be saved from the Maw, my question is why would anyone not repent?

-whatever you hoped to gain with your 'evil' is now lost: power, wealth, influence? gone, immortality? nice try! all left for you is whether you can chill at some reasonable place like Bastion or suffer in the Maw till time has lost all meaning and you no longer have a memory of yourself not screaming

so how could possibly anyone NOT repent? what you did was obviously wrong, it lead you in Ravendreth at first and will lead you to the Maw next, repentance is a ridiculously attractive choice here...

ps: off-topic but are only heroes dying in Azeroth? where do normal people go? say for example Stormwind's baker dies, what happens to him? let's say that he's a selfish man but he never did anything wrong -just minding his own buisiness, no connection to nature, not particularly proud and always has been a weakling what happens to him and all the millions like him?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Pride. Do you ever see someone like Garrosh repenting and saying he was wrong?

[Relapses]

So redemption arcs for our villains seem to be the hot topic and repetance is what determines their destination (and waystations)

so if you're a really good person you go to Bastion, if you're a really Green person you go to Ardenweald, if you're a morally grey person that spent his life fighting you end up to Maldraxus, so far so good

now if you're a really bad person you end up in Ravendreth so you can repent and be saved from the Maw, my question is why would anyone not repent?

-whatever you hoped to gain with your 'evil' is now lost: power, wealth, influence? gone, immortality? nice try! all left for you is whether you can chill at some reasonable place like Bastion or suffer in the Maw till time has lost all meaning and you no longer have a memory of yourself not screaming

so how could possibly anyone NOT repent? what you did was obviously wrong, it lead you in Ravendreth at first and will lead you to the Maw next, repentance is a ridiculously attractive choice here...

ps: off-topic but are only heroes dying in Azeroth? where do normal people go? say for example Stormwind's baker dies, what happens to him? let's say that he's a selfish man but he never did anything wrong -just minding his own buisiness, no connection to nature, not particularly proud and always has been a weakling what happens to him and all the millions like him?

I think this plays into the idea that some souls are simply bound for The Maw. They are so corrupt that even when given the opportunity to repent, they say fuck it and to The Maw they go. Taliesin actually touched on this a bit in his recent cinematic analysis but one of the big take-aways is that Devos intervened Arthas' soul and condemned him to The Maw because she didn't even want to risk the possibility of him finding redemption. I think we'll find out through the course of events in Shadowlands exactly why some souls are so inherently corrupt and what The Maw actually represents in the greater scheme of things. We don't yet know quite enough to make any big conclusions but it's a pretty interesting take on the afterlife so I'm curious to see where they take things from here.

[valax]

where do normal people go? say for example Stormwind's baker dies, what happens to him? let's say that he's a selfish man but he never did anything wrong -just minding his own buisiness, no connection to nature, not particularly proud and always has been a weakling what happens to him and all the millions like him?

Right to the Maw . Beg for gold? Maw. Train warlocks?Maw. Steal another kid's toy gorilla? believe it or not , Maw right away.

[LemonDemonGirl]

ps: off-topic but are only heroes dying in Azeroth? where do normal people go? say for example Stormwind's baker dies, what happens to him? let's say that he's a selfish man but he never did anything wrong -just minding his own buisiness, no connection to nature, not particularly proud and always has been a weakling what happens to him and all the millions like him?

He'd go to Revendreth because he was selfish? And since he wasn't really that bad I'd say he wouldn't be there for very long. Probably just a few years or so. Besides, I don't think normal everyday people go to the Maw. There might be an average joe afterlife somewhere that we haven't seen yet. And yeah I just can't see 'evil from birth characters' existing

Also in that case I guess I'll be going to hell the Maw when I die X.X

[Siraeyou]

Right to the Maw . Beg for gold? Maw. Train warlocks?Maw. Steal another kid's toy gorilla? believe it or not , Maw right away.

Take too long to bake a cake? Maw. Bake the cake too quickly? Oddly enough, straight to the Maw.

[Musta]

Well everyone is going to the maw nowdays, its kinda the point of the whole thing.

[shadowmatrix]

ps: off-topic but are only heroes dying in Azeroth? where do normal people go? say for example Stormwind's baker dies, what happens to him? let's say that he's a selfish man but he never did anything wrong -just minding his own buisiness, no connection to nature, not particularly proud and always has been a weakling what happens to him and all the millions like him?

Somewhere else? I think the way they have things written sets up there being a vast number of realms in the Shadowlands, we are just visiting a set few during the initial story. Keep in mind Helya's realm is also in the Shadowlands.

[WintersLegion]

He'd go to Revendreth because he was selfish? And since he wasn't really that bad I'd say he wouldn't be there for very long. Probably just a few years or so. Besides, I don't think normal everyday people go to the Maw. There might be an average joe afterlife somewhere that we haven't seen yet. And yeah I just can't see 'evil from birth characters' existing

Also in that case I guess I'll be going to hell the Maw when I die X.X

From what I understand the area's and covenants we know of are just a few of the ones that exist in The Shadowlands they just happen to be some of the biggest ones

[Razion]

Take too long to bake a cake? Maw. Bake the cake too quickly? Oddly enough, straight to the Maw.

10,000 years from now, the Cake Empire's grip loosens on one planet. One that didn't make cakes that took too long or quick...

[Unholyground]

From what I understand the area's and covenants we know of are just a few of the ones that exist in The Shadowlands they just happen to be some of the biggest ones

Yep, and the Troll/Loa afterlife is a separate one they somehow carved out for themselves, same as Odyn and the Halls of Valor. There are probably tons of special ones.

[Greyfang]

Take too long to bake a cake? Maw. Bake the cake too quickly? Oddly enough, straight to the Maw.

We have the best repentant souls in the shadowlands... because of the Maw.

[Shelly]

So redemption arcs for our villains seem to be the hot topic and repetance is what determines their destination (and waystations)

so if you're a really good person you go to Bastion, if you're a really Green person you go to Ardenweald, if you're a morally grey person that spent his life fighting you end up to Maldraxus, so far so good

now if you're a really bad person you end up in Ravendreth so you can repent and be saved from the Maw, my question is why would anyone not repent?

-whatever you hoped to gain with your 'evil' is now lost: power, wealth, influence? gone, immortality? nice try! all left for you is whether you can chill at some reasonable place like Bastion or suffer in the Maw till time has lost all meaning and you no longer have a memory of yourself not screaming

so how could possibly anyone NOT repent? what you did was obviously wrong, it lead you in Ravendreth at first and will lead you to the Maw next, repentance is a ridiculously attractive choice here...

ps: off-topic but are only heroes dying in Azeroth? where do normal people go? say for example Stormwind's baker dies, what happens to him? let's say that he's a selfish man but he never did anything wrong -just minding his own buisiness, no connection to nature, not particularly proud and always has been a weakling what happens to him and all the millions like him?

The assumption is that you go through specific trials and penance that would then allow you to be reincarnated in some fashion and that they have ways of ensuring that your repentance is true.

Also what makes you think that they just repent and get off scott free?

Even if you're repentant right away you'll still be responsible for the agonies you've caused and would receive punishment for those actions.

In answer to your "non-hero" question. He'd probably end up in Revendreth but face less penance than someone like Kael'Thas or Garrosh.

Or if say your baker was a weakling, but was as selfless as he could be. Donated bread, helped old ladies cross the street, paid his taxes, etc. Good chance he'd end up in Bastion.

And do remember that even in Bastion you face penance for your past life and must work through your former regrets, tragedies and sins before you can ascend.

Each environ of the Shadowlands has their own aspect of penance you must pay to either reincarnate or ascend to higher station.

[Thage]

It's not good/green/neutral, it's more about your values. Bastion is for those who lived lives of selfless service and self-sacrifice, for whom those ideals were the highest they aspired to. Ardenweald is for those whose love of the natural world and adherence to the natural order superseded all else. Maldraxxus is for those who are called to battle, for whom constant struggle and overcoming those struggles is where they feel most alive.

Revendreth is home to two classes of afterlife: those who undergo a final chance to seek redemption and reform their ways, and those who oversee the trials of the penitent. The Venthyr are perhaps the darkest Covenant because nothing is too extreme for them to consider in their pursuit of making sure you have cleaned your literal slate and purified yourself of your sins.

However, there are people who fail their trials, people who refuse these trials, and people who simply give up. These people who make it clear the Venthyr are wasting their time on and will never seek contrition and penance, will never truly reform their ways, are sent to the Maw after being drained of their anima. Garrosh, for example, is highly likely to fail his trials because pride is his fatal flaw. Sylvanas, when she dies, is likely to fail her trials for similar reasons, if the Arbiter doesn't send her directly to the Maw (this is a special case; most every evil soul is sent to Revendreth for purgatory, but some are too great a threat to the Shadowlands if allowed to remain free, something she is actively demonstrating even before her final death. These souls are sent directly to the Maw.).