An early look at them great vault, i.e. the new weekly chest.

[Elbob]

Have you ever given this system a deeper thought considering all environmental variables or not really?

1. Gear will be rare, you are assuming current setting where you are showered in loot and can gear up in a day. That alone makes chest much more valuable.
2. Technically in the middle of the road to your gearing up, chance to get something good from single-slot weekly chest is just abysmally low.
3. However given that there is limited pool of items and they cannot be repeated, chance with 3 slots suddenly gets pretty high. Especially for raids.

So given this 3 things, mythic raiders want to do 15 M+ each for at least 2 months. And all of them at max rewards level.

The statement was the new system is an upgrade on the old system, which it is because its the old system with options to choose from.

1)Gear being rare with no titanforging or warforging increases the odds of a single completely random high ilvl piece being an upgrade which actually devalues the potency of being able to choose a piece. (but its still better to have choices obviously)
2)We clearly have very different scales for what "middle of the road" means. If you are at the point where you have optimized M+/heroic raid gear which is the usual perpetrator for being able to out value a random mythic quality piece your gearing process is near done, not near the middle. And finishing your gearing, to be perfect, has always been tough. So yes people who spend more time doing more content will be able to use their chest to optimize end game gearing faster this isnt a problem because you are talking about average variable ilvls of 1-2 and I've never seen some pug lead for regular content deny someone cause they have slightly better itemized gear.
3) I'm sorry but I'm not 100% sure on your point here but ill give it my best shot. You think because raids have limited gear drops compared to the whole of the M+ pool that the raiders get an advantage by picking from more of the raid pieces which are at the same ilvl as the M+ pieces? If my understanding of the system is right you will only see 1 mythic raid piece to choose from until you are killing 7 mythic bosses per week. Usually the OP raid items are trinkets. Getting a properly itemized raid piece is the same gambling shit show as M+ pieces. Nya for example only had 1 piece with BiS itemization for my monk(not counting azerite). So I guess the concern here is raiders are gonna get raid trinkets faster? potentially at the loss of getting well itemized armor slots sooner. On top of that, like you said raids have more limited loot pools so getting trinkets from raid is already pretty easy via targeting with coins. The only heavy acceleration of trinket acquisition will be from drops that come later in the raid that are not being killed in your raids first couple of clears.

I raid top 100 US and we will certainly not be requiring anything of the sort. The % of our players that will do 15 M+ per week will probably be sub 30%(estimate of course). The number might be higher for the first 1-2 weeks but that is more likely due to just wanting the higher ilvl base drops with the chest rewards being a secondary reason.

[spleen1015]

I just can't grasp how people can think this is bad thing.

The folks who already raid mythic and do 15 or more M+ a week are already going to be better then you gear-wise because they are getting loot for their effort. Now Blizz is giving them more options to choose from for that effort and the folks who don't do the same level of effort think they are being punished.

Some of you guys are nucking futs.

[Doffen]

I know, but I was expecting some options for my alts with just 1 run. I like to play a lot of alts, and the current model of only 1 option is pretty bad.

At least a minimum of 2 options with just 1 run would be somewhat good enough.

Sure it is nice for alts to have more choices too, at least if you got 10 or more like some do, who get the feeling of wanting more choices, me too. But what else do you do on your alts? If you are like me, I do some raids as well as dungeons on those. Do you raid on them too? Because if you do 3 raid bosses that would give you another choice in the chest.

So count what you do on your alts per week, how much content do you do regardless? Many dungeons, raids or pvp? If I am counting what I did in Legion on 7-8 alts in average per week(I had 14, but did swap around and focused more on a few each week/little period) I would end up with 5-7 bosses, 3-5 mythic dungeons per week on each in average and that would give me 2 to 4 choices in the chest, of content I did anyway.

[FelPlague]

I answered to a suggestion to make X=15 for it. Personally I also hope that Y isn't higher than let's say 5 for the last bracket. But maybe wanting to choose from 3 high ilvl options actually should require players to do a lot of high dungeons for the third bracket.

^^^
The reason for the "choice is based on your lowest key of X" is because you could do 14 M+2, and then 1 15, and that would just be the meta, so instead it more so pushes you to doing a few high levels, instead of just 1 high level and ton of low levels.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Sure it is nice for alts to have more choices too, at least if you got 10 or more like some do, who get the feeling of wanting more choices, me too. But what else do you do on your alts? If you are like me, I do some raids as well as dungeons on those. Do you raid on them too? Because if you do 3 raid bosses that would give you another choice in the chest.

So count what you do on your alts per week, how much content do you do regardless? Many dungeons, raids or pvp? If I am counting what I did in Legion on 7-8 alts in average per week(I had 14, but did swap around and focused more on a few each week/little period) I would end up with 5-7 bosses, 3-5 mythic dungeons per week on each in average and that would give me 2 to 4 choices in the chest, of content I did anyway.

I pretty much stopped raiding and only do M+ since BFA. Most of my toons only run one 15+ or higher, sometimes I may run 2 or 3 dungeons on some of them but that's it. I use around 6~8 alts, which is a lot.

So yea, at least 2 options with just 1 run would be enough for me. I still have a character that didn't get a single weapon from my weekly chest all this season. Only 1 option is just horrible.

[Segus1992]

Now that there are more options to get the gear from the chest they could increase the M+ difficulty needed? (and reduce the amount of runs needed)

Yep that's indeed what I said.

[rrayy]

People with this mindset will think like this regardless of what Blizzard does. There is no happy medium for these kinds of players.

The great vault does not propagate that mindset, but it doesn't alleviate it, either. There is no helping the loot goblin extremists who are foaming at the mouth constantly screeching about how Blizzard is trying to kill them by forcing them to play their game, like they're stupid puppets on strings tied to their computers. The chest is not for those players. Fuck those players.

The chest is aimed more at people just below the extreme of that spectrum who play because they see no end in sight. The weekly goals gives them an end, a framework to work with, a structure for their play and a point where they can comfortably say "I'm done for the week." ...but if they're so inclined, they're free to do more. That's the happy medium.

Blizzard should not cater to the piteous maniacs who look at every system in the game as a min that they have to max. They don't have to cater to those players, because those players inevitably bend the knee to Blizzard regardless.

THis is ridiculous. They want as many players to play as possible. This in no way is going to do that. THis is just going to cause more players to sub out and not return. And again, you can help those who see no end in sight without going to this ridiculous extreme. That is where "happy medium" comes in. "Play 24/7 or screw off" is nowhere near a "happy medium". You can have weekly goals without causing players to be completely screwed if they miss one week. The devs just have no clue how to do that.

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I just can't grasp how people can think this is bad thing.

The folks who already raid mythic and do 15 or more M+ a week are already going to be better then you gear-wise because they are getting loot for their effort. Now Blizz is giving them more options to choose from for that effort and the folks who don't do the same level of effort think they are being punished.

Some of you guys are nucking futs.

"Play 24/7 or you're screwed" is never a good thing. EVER.

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it is an improvement for EVERYONE. Even if you get just one extra choice, that's one more choice than you get right now. Those who play this game a lot just get a bit more. Is that really hurting you so much?

No it isn't. You now have to play practically 24/7 or you are screwed for the entire expansion. That is in no way an improvement for everyone.

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How? doing 1 M15+ or killing 3 Mythic bosses will likely get you a max ilvl item. Playing 1 hour or playing 2000 hours will give the same reward. 1 item.
The person putting in 2000 hours has more choice in what item he gets and as a result might get a more desirable item but the reward for both is 1 max ilvl item.

Becaue that is the only time you get gear. So, if you have to take a week off you are now one week behind and permanently behind everyone else. You are completely screwed unless you play every single week.

Once again Blizzard went to the polar opposite and fixed nothing because they don't have the first clue what a "happy medium" is.

[goldlock]

^^^
The reason for the "choice is based on your lowest key of X" is because you could do 14 M+2, and then 1 15, and that would just be the meta, so instead it more so pushes you to doing a few high levels, instead of just 1 high level and ton of low levels.

Kinda makes sense but man is that going to make the first week brutal... guilds are going to try and gear alts enough to cap a key then take their mains through with it...

I wouldn't be surprised for 15/10 (whatever the cap starts at) keys to sell for 400k a spot or higher.

[rab2485]

Not sure if this has been addressed yet since I didn't read the entirety of the thread but it's pretty simple to understand what X is. The lowest of the top X runs are chosen for that specific bracket. So for mythic + it's 1/5/15 completed dungeons for a choice of loot. Lets say you do 15 M+ dungeons that week: 7,7,7,8,8,8,9,9,9,10,11,11,12,14. X is the bracket (1/5/15), so for the first one it is your top 1 run and the lowest of that is chosen, which is actually your highest. In this case it is the 14. Then for the 5 bracket, it chooses your top 5 keys and gives you loot based on the lowest of those; in this example it is 10. Same for the 15 bracket, the lowest of all 15 of those is 7

[Wuusah]

THis is ridiculous. They want as many players to play as possible. This in no way is going to do that. THis is just going to cause more players to sub out and not return. And again, you can help those who see no end in sight without going to this ridiculous extreme. That is where "happy medium" comes in. "Play 24/7 or screw off" is nowhere near a "happy medium". You can have weekly goals without causing players to be completely screwed if they miss one week. The devs just have no clue how to do that.

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"Play 24/7 or you're screwed" is never a good thing. EVER.

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No it isn't. You now have to play practically 24/7 or you are screwed for the entire expansion. That is in no way an improvement for everyone.

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Becaue that is the only time you get gear. So, if you have to take a week off you are now one week behind and permanently behind everyone else. You are completely screwed unless you play every single week.

Once again Blizzard went to the polar opposite and fixed nothing because they don't have the first clue what a "happy medium" is.

Or you just do one M+15 or kill 3 raid bosses and have one item for the week like it is now.

It really is not such a drama to get less item choices than other players. This is whining on such a high level...

[spleen1015]

THis is ridiculous. They want as many players to play as possible. This in no way is going to do that. THis is just going to cause more players to sub out and not return. And again, you can help those who see no end in sight without going to this ridiculous extreme. That is where "happy medium" comes in. "Play 24/7 or screw off" is nowhere near a "happy medium". You can have weekly goals without causing players to be completely screwed if they miss one week. The devs just have no clue how to do that.

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"Play 24/7 or you're screwed" is never a good thing. EVER.

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No it isn't. You now have to play practically 24/7 or you are screwed for the entire expansion. That is in no way an improvement for everyone.

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Becaue that is the only time you get gear. So, if you have to take a week off you are now one week behind and permanently behind everyone else. You are completely screwed unless you play every single week.

Once again Blizzard went to the polar opposite and fixed nothing because they don't have the first clue what a "happy medium" is.

What is this idea of play 24/7 or you're screwed? We're talking about 1 more gear option from this feature. If you don't do 15 dungeons then you get 2 options instead of 3. Blizzard is not doing this. The folks that think this way are. You don't have to run 15 M+ if you don't want to.

[glowpipe]

Not sure if this has been addressed yet since I didn't read the entirety of the thread but it's pretty simple to understand what X is. The lowest of the top X runs are chosen for that specific bracket. So for mythic + it's 1/5/15 completed dungeons for a choice of loot. Lets say you do 15 M+ dungeons that week: 7,7,7,8,8,8,9,9,9,10,11,11,12,14. X is the bracket (1/5/15), so for the first one it is your top 1 run and the lowest of that is chosen, which is actually your highest. In this case it is the 14. Then for the 5 bracket, it chooses your top 5 keys and gives you loot based on the lowest of those; in this example it is 10. Same for the 15 bracket, the lowest of all 15 of those is 7

Exactly
And then you have people who claim that the 7 keys in your example are ruining your 14 key for the third choice. No, its not, because you never had a 14 key for the third choice. To get a 14 key for the third choice. you need to do 15 keys on 14 or higher

This system looks really decent and is a giant upgrade over how it currently is

[CalamityHeart]

THis is ridiculous. They want as many players to play as possible. This in no way is going to do that. THis is just going to cause more players to sub out and not return. And again, you can help those who see no end in sight without going to this ridiculous extreme. That is where "happy medium" comes in. "Play 24/7 or screw off" is nowhere near a "happy medium". You can have weekly goals without causing players to be completely screwed if they miss one week. The devs just have no clue how to do that.

No you can't. Not for the kind of people you're worried about. Nothing short of turning this game on its head and putting even larger shackles on loot availability and content-gating is going to erase this idiotic extremist mindset that you believe Blizzard should be catering to. And once that mindset is stamped out, Blizzard will then have to somehow deal with the screeching of everyone else for whom the game has been ruined.

Of course Blizzard has no idea how to satisfy the head cases who believe that they're screwed if they don't max out their chest every week. There's no satisfying them. If you think that the weekly vault is in no way trying to satisfy those people, then congrats, you're starting to get it.

Yes, Blizzard wants as many people to play as possible. If that means pissing off the loot goblins and forcing them to either tone it back or leave, so that the rest of the more level-headed and sane playerbase can be happier, then that's a worthy sacrifice if you ask me. Once more: Fuck those players. They shouldn't be catered to.

[Azharok]

What's more, the casuals aren't actually getting less loot from the box. They are getting fewer choices, so they'll take longer to get BiS, but not that much longer to get mostly top-ilevel (for the content they run) gear.

Well no they aren't getting less loot, I was equating more choice to "less likely to get something bad". With the current system most items you get from the weekly chest are trash (if you've played since the start of S4 for example) so odds of getting a good item are pretty low.

[LanToaster]

We have no idea what X might be. It could be the number of dungeons necessary to reach that tier.

Its safe to assume that its not 15. Otherwise the tooltip would be as simple as the one for Raids.

If I had to bet, I would say X is 5 on the 15Dungeon Tier.

If we say doing more M+ should give the same rewards as doing harder content, that's what I disagree with. It seems like that's what the intention is (long grind vs difficult grind)

I dont say it "Should", I say its probably like that.

And having the Option between "More Effort" vs "Harder Content" is always nice to have.

when in reality M+ has the potential of being harder than Mythic raids.

Personally I feel like the maximum difficulty for M+ should be increased to better represent Mythic raid difficulty, and the runs necessary for 3 reward choices to be reduced to 5-10.

But M+ isnt harder than MythicRaid. How Difficult it should be is another topic entirely.

It's just strange that M+ should be the "easier but grindier" option of the three when they're all consolidated into one weekly chest.

Why is it Strange? M+ is right now Easier than Mythic Raiding, and it is also already the more Grindier Option. Makes perfect sense to me, to keep it that way. Why change a working system?

I know, but I was expecting some options for my alts with just 1 run. I like to play a lot of alts, and the current model of only 1 option is pretty bad.

At least a minimum of 2 options with just 1 run would be somewhat good enough.

You can Expect the to get all 3 Tiers of the Raid stuff if you clear the Raid. Thats "One" Activity.

Becaue that is the only time you get gear. So, if you have to take a week off you are now one week behind and permanently behind everyone else. You are completely screwed unless you play every single week.

Once again Blizzard went to the polar opposite and fixed nothing because they don't have the first clue what a "happy medium" is.

You got to be Joking or Trolling? Do you want to get Stuff weekly for doing nothing?

[klogaroth]

Seems good.

I feel a lot of people don't understand how it works at all, but that's on them. It's not a complex system.

I do somewhat agree though that 15 dungeons is a lot for the maximum number of options from M+. Not because 15 dungeons is necessarily too many dungeons for someone who likes M+ to do, but because it's out of line with the rest of that row. Also there aren't 15 different dungeons in Shadowlands. M+ keys are random, so it can't ask you to do each duneon once, but I don't think it should be a number that guarantees duplicates.

[MakeMeLaugh]

You can Expect the to get all 3 Tiers of the Raid stuff if you clear the Raid. Thats "One" Activity.

For shit loot lol. Even when I raided it was just heroic, can't bother with mythic. So if I did a full heroic clear, my cache options would be shit, worse than M+.

[Doffen]

I pretty much stopped raiding and only do M+ since BFA. Most of my toons only run one 15+ or higher, sometimes I may run 2 or 3 dungeons on some of them but that's it. I use around 6~8 alts, which is a lot.

So yea, at least 2 options with just 1 run would be enough for me. I still have a character that didn't get a single weapon from my weekly chest all this season. Only 1 option is just horrible.

Okay, I can understand where you are coming from then. I got few weapons on my main actually, very little on my alts, but with mediocre or bad corruption so 10-15 ilvl higher weapons got tossed in the bank Not gonna complain about that though, got the best one from Ny'alotha and a 455 version of the Underrot Fist Weapon unfortunately the highest one that dropped from a UR run. Usually I don't get weapons from weekly chest at all either the previous seasons. But, I got a weekly chest upgrade in May, a direct ring upgrade, 1% upgrade! Last upgrade from the weekly chest on my main before that however was in February....

So just looking what we got now, huge improvement. But I can see the issue for players that maybe stick to one type of content and got several alts doing the same, like you do.

[Hadriker]

The fact that people are actually complaining about this new system speaks more about the players than it does the system itself. The amount of entitled children in this thread is hilarious.

[MakeMeLaugh]

The fact that people are actually complaining about this new system speaks more about the players than it does the system itself. The amount of entitled children in this thread is hilarious.

Damn, imagine thinking you are not supposed to discuss a new system. Guess everyone should only praise it, that's what all the grown ups do right?