Best Elf race for each class?

[LemonDemonGirl]

All that you suggested was Night elf, Blood elf and Nightborne.....How boring....Can you try something different than just elves?

Sadly WoW has a lot of elves

All Classes
Dead Elf

What kind of dead elves though?

[Mace]

Well, it's at least a different take on a subject that has seen a lot of iterations. I have dismissed the hero classes, because I deem that thoses classes are also their own faction, rather than part of their races. A Night Elf Death Knight is more a member of the Ebon Blade than a citizen of Darnassus. So all races work for them, and in any spec. When I say Blood Elf, I also mean High or Void Elf, because I do not think that the difference between them are so huge. I only name the Void Elves when it really makes a difference.

I somewhat agree with that, and was initially reluctant to include them, it is certainly the case for DKs, but I think with DHs a judgement can be made, though many find it too close to call.

Hunters
Beastmaster: Night Elf, I guess, because of the hippogryph riders and the owls.
Marksmanship: All fit well. Elf hunters are rarely depicted with pets in game. They are all archers.
Survival: Night Elf, because they are associated more with wilderness. And no, I do not consider the tame forests of Quel'thalas as very wild...

I like your reasoning here, although with night elves and beastmaster I thought more of the forest affinity and the animal love, bu presumably that's more a druid thing and the sentinels/huntresses are a priest thing, but there is some overlap.

Good point about survival, but remember Quel'thalas had the Amani trolls, it was no walk in the park for the high elves/blood elves either, they'd be hard as nails as the Amani were a very powerful group and they bested them./

Monk:
Tough one. Elves in general do not fit well with the monk.
Brewmaster: Nightborne, maybe. Arcwine, beer, it's all booze anyway...
Windwalker: None
Mistweaver: Night Elf, maybe. For the herbal medecine theme, but that's tenuous at best.

Monk was tough, even the arcwine connection was less than tenuous at best but was the closest thing I could think off. I thought about an elf's constitution with beer - I would think their enhanced health due to magic and good nature/perfectionism lends itself to be able to deal with beer much better, and they'd have a faster metabolism, but then if Brewmastery depends on you being a little drunk or very drunk, then the same reasoning will actually make them the worse. But neither of these have been confirmed or denied.

Paladin:
Blood Elf for all, of course, since they are the only elves that can play that class. However, if the Night Elves get them after Shadowlands because of the Night Warrior story arc, I would say that Retribution would fit them well...

I would hope if we saw NElf paladins, they'd be Night warrior types, doubt blizzard cares bout making it look right any longer, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

Priest:
Discipline: Night Elf. Priestesses of the Moon were very martial too. It fits well with the two sides of Elune.
Holy: Blood Elf.
Shadow: Void Elf, of course.

And night warrior priests for shadow?

Rogue:
Assassination: Blood Elf
Outlaw: Nightborne, maybe. The urban setting of Suramar kinda meshes well with swashbuckling duelists.
Subtlety Night Elf. Stalking in the shadows, ambushes in the woods, it fits well with the Night Elves tactics.

Suramar does mesh well with the swashbuckling dueslists, in the commons area too, although there is an elemnt of that when you fight Corbanhn in the elite area too, still there is a counter culture tot hat because of the highborne night elf lifestyle, still it's not unheard off.

surprised void elves don't feature in at least subtelty.

Warlock
It seems to me that Blood Elves (for the fire theme), Void Elves (for the Void theme) and Nightborne (for the demon/Legion theme) work well for all specs.

Warrior
Arms: Night Elves. Sentinels look like great weapon masters, more that sword-and-board warriors.
Fury: None really fit. I can't see any Elf wielding two two-handers and being enraged. Well, Night Elves, maybe.
Protection: Blood Elf. We see lots of sword-and-board warriors and they are now more about fighting in open fields.

I must admit, female night elves do look really good with weapons.

I felt Blood elves had the fury thing to them, until ofc recent events with the night elves.

I never felt the sword and board blood elves looked particularly effective or dangerous.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Blood elves for dk, paladin, and warlock. Night elf for everything else.

Void elves are pretty much a fan fiction race that isn't even a race at all. They're void touched high elves.

Nightborne can only compete when it comes to mages, but both the other races have more powerful mages like Xavius, Illidan, Azshara, Kael'thas, Rommath.

[Mace]

I very much disagree with Void Elf Priests, even if sticking to Shadow Priests. Yes, void spec for void race does make sense at face value, but given Blood Elf society and the story of the Void Elves, the ones who turned over seemed to be more power hungry blood elves that were mages and warlocks.

Night Elves and Blood Elves both have greater priesthoods

Thank you, I also disagree with void elf priests. Shadow I can make an exception, but still, they're vastly mages and fit more the warlock mindset.

But if they were to be shadow priests I guess they'd be very good at it.

It is worth noting that void elves and Alleria who specialise in the void can still access the light, because they are not void beings, it's covered in the audio book on Alleria and Turalyon, using the void hasn't lost her ability or rather her light in her - they explain it better.

[Swnem]

I just want to point out that void elf is likely the best choice for MM hunter in SL.
It was second to human, but with the scaling nerfs plus the pushback immunity on aimed shot and the focus generating shot, it is likely the best dps choice for the spec.
I've been pondering race changing my human. :x

[Darththeo]

Outside of Paladin, where Blood Elf is the only current choice and Druid, where Night Elf is the only current choice.

You can make arguments why any other class can be any elf that it is available to, even Demon Hunter ... but I do admit Demon Hunter strongly favors Night Elf over Blood Elf, but an argument could be made that Havoc is Night Elf and Vengeance is Blood Elf.

Now, if you ask me which one I see first when thinking of the class? It is almost exclusively Blood Elf or Night Elf. It is not that I don't like Void Elf or Nightborne, it is just that Void elves ARE former Blood Elves, so Blood Elf would fit any class suited to Void Elf and Nightborne seem like a hybrid between Blood Elves and Night Elf in terms of culture to me, so they can insert themselves along side either where appropriate.

[Sharnie786]

Mage
Arcane: Night Elf, Nightbourne, Blood Elf, Void Elf
Fire: Blood Elf
Frost: None

Hunter
Marksman: Night Elf and Blood Elf
Beast Mastery: Night Elf
Survival: Night Elf

Rogue
Subtlety: Void Elf and Night Elf
Outlaw: Void Elf and Night Elf
Assassination: Blood Elf, Void Elf and Night Elf

Warlock
Demonology: Void Elf and Blood Elf
Affliction: Void Elf
Destruction: Blood Elf

Warrior
Protection: Night Elf
Fury: Night Elf
Arms: Night Elf

Paladin
Protection: None
Holy: None
Retribution: None

Death Knighr
Blood: None
Unholy: None
Frost: None

Druid
Guardian: Night Elf
Restoration: Night Elf
Balance: Night Elf
Feral: Night Elf

Demonhunter
Vengeance: Night Elf
Havoc: Night Elf

Monk
Brewmaster: None
Windwalker: Night Elf
Mistweaver: Night Elf

Priest
Shadow: Void Elf
Holy: Night Elf
Discipline: Void Elf

Shaman
Elemental: Night Elf (there are Night Elf NPCs that use Ele Shaman spells in some dungeons)
Enhancement: None
Restoration: None (but could be Night Elf if you stretch a little.)

[Melorandor]

Not sure why Night elf would make frost though, although it really fits them imo, the cold of the void, and high elf kirin'tor frost specialism for me leaned frost towards Void elf/high elf.

I think a Winterspring Highborne theme works well. I like to see a revived Highborne kingdom in Winterspring, would be nice. The chilled touch of the dark side of the moon.

Curious why you added Nightborne to demonology or void elf to destruction? We destroyed the Felborne, and despite their great talent at mastering magic, they're relatively very new to fel say compared to the Blood elf or void elf.

Theme concepts of those specs kind of fit the respective Elf races?

Oh I need an explanation. Seeing I picked Blood elf ( although I was thinking of Valeera). I kinda agree with you on Outlaw, not sure Nightborne would fit though, they seem to be a pretty together community, united, although there might be a city feature or characteristic that lends itself to outlaw that I missed ? Whiles they weren't the most morally pure group, outlaws were punished with explusion.. but then outlaw rogues can also be duelists, and fighters that aren't warriors.

I grouped Nightborne making good Assassination Rogues due to all the political intrigue, and court politics that goes on. Fits the other Elves too such as Blood Elves, but figured it would be a unique spin.

[Tanaria]

- - - Updated - - -

There is no evidence for this, we just haven't seen the Shen'dralar themselves in action in-game, only been described what they can do. Well Estulan did throw an impossibly long range frostbolt at an ogre

Where does this happen? I've done the dire maul quests and Estulan only appears in one of the wings. The Ogre Wing of the dungeon is a dungeon where the quest givers are Ogres.
He doesn't make an appearance in Isildien with the Ogres or in Darkmist with the undead highborne or Sensiria who was transformed into a demon.

I know your view on the Highborne - which I disagree, but I don't want to go into it, between you and Ravenmoon on the other topic, it's been beaten to death, suffice it to say we disagree, and I see you haven't changed your mind.

But why would blood elves be up there with Nightborne? Potentially, sure, they can, no doubt, but practically, it is clear Suramar is leagues ahead in magic (as it should be) than anything the blood elves have - this is kaldorei empire standard that has continued on - it's basically what the Shen'dralar would have had in Eldre'thalas if we didn't meet it in ruins, and it's well beyond anything we saw in Silvermoon.

Even in the encounters between the two, the magic of the blood elves was described as very powerful, but it could not rival the Nightwell, and that was only in power, in terms of technique, skill, knowledge, advancement in a host of other areas (not just combat, which is what the quests were talking about) the Nightborne were leagues ahead arcane wise.

Not sure how the blood elves figure there though. Even the spell breaker that helped us break that Nightborne's shield was possible because it was both unfamiliar and he was terribly arrogant and thus got sloppy. And again, that was combat related, and it didn't prove blood elves were just as good or better, it just proved they were capable of surmounting difficult odds against superior opponents, and yes the Nightborne were superior opponents, it's just like how we take down superior opponents like Kil'jaeden, or Azshara and others, we're not better at magic than they are because we beat them. We found a way in, and were able to seize the advantage catching htem off guard, often with help, a b it of luck or a breakthrough in a fight.

The reason being is Blood Elves have always been advancing. We saw this when they took to fel magic on Outland and with draining the magic out of living beings in Quel'Thalas.
We have seen how easily they take to weaving Blood Magic and the Sunreavers have only enhanced those skills.
Creations that the Quel'Thalas denizens have made and created and all whilst avoiding the eye of Sargeras - this isn't anything to just ignore and dismiss.

Their mastery of the arcane and the creations of the Sanctums around their land and how much magic they were using on a daily basis and whilst avoiding Sargeras and the Legion and not only that - holding off the Amani, blessing their entire land into an eternal spring with arcane magic, creating Silvermoon and the Sunwell, finding new methods of arcane-weaving. The Blood Elves and their predecessors have mastered this, far beyond what I have ever seen come from the Shen'dralar. You can speculate on what they can do, but that's all you can do. We have actual evidence what the Highborne descendants of Quel'Thalas can do, because the evidence has been shown and displayed to us. Hell, even in undeath, the San'layn Magi were also quite powerful. Perhaps on par with a very skilled Forsaken Mage.

Also, I have to question the power of the barrier that was over Suramar? In the cinematic, the fel-bats were just flying into the barrier and going through it. When Gul'Dan, his Orc Warlocks and the corrupted dragons went through Ban'dinoriel, they were being weakened. They tried to destroy the Runestones but couldn't because they were being drained and weakened because of the magical barrier. Factor this in with the fact that Ban'dinoriel shielded the High Elves of Quel'Thalas from the gaze of the Legion and Sargeras himself. This cannot be argued with. This is a fact and at that point, Dath'Remar had achieved what Zin-Azshari had failed in. A true elven homeland, blessed with arcane mastery and no threat of the Legion.

All of these points are what we could see in the Warcraft games and Alleria Windrunner was speaking so much truth when she mentioned her people's mastery of the arcane, because it is true mastery. When we see it, we see very skilled, very potent Elven Mages, weaving the arcane magic in a way which we have never seen come from the Shen'dralar. I question whether they can actually do the advanced practices that Silvermoon can do. Everything they have done, the Thalassian Elves have already took to, with ease. The arcane, check. The fel, check. The void, check. When we've got Elves called "Void Elves" who specialize in that magic, hearing about a bunch of old, mostly dead Highborne, doing it is not truly impressive at all. Not only the Void Elves took to it, but the Sunfury Blood Elves on Outland took to the Void as well, under High Astromancer Solarian.

And to the point regarding the Sunreaver Mage who destroyed the Nightborne shield. Regardless of whether it was clumsy or sloppy. The point is - he bested it. And your points about Kil'jaedon and Azshara being the big bosses is quite mute because the same rule applies when we were facing Kael'thas, twice over. The Blood Elves, by your own argument, are far more powerful than anything we'd seen.

[Mace]

Where does this happen? I've done the dire maul quests and Estulan only appears in one of the wings. The Ogre Wing of the dungeon is a dungeon where the quest givers are Ogres.
He doesn't make an appearance in Isildien with the Ogres or in Darkmist with the undead highborne or Sensiria who was transformed into a demon.

It's not a Dire Maul quest, but a Feralas quest.

Also, I have to question the power of the barrier that was over Suramar? In the cinematic, the fel-bats were just flying into the barrier and going through it. When Gul'Dan, his Orc Warlocks and the corrupted dragons went through Ban'dinoriel, they were being weakened. They tried to destroy the Runestones but couldn't because they were being drained and weakened because of the magical barrier. Factor this in with the fact that Ban'dinoriel shielded the High Elves of Quel'Thalas from the gaze of the Legion and Sargeras himself. This cannot be argued with. This is a fact and at that point, Dath'Remar had achieved what Zin-Azshari had failed in. A true elven homeland, blessed with arcane mastery and no threat of the Legion.

Eldre'thalas succeeded almost straight away what was later done with the Ban'dinoriel, elves are ingenious, the High elves were last to the table, but that wasn't because they weren't capable, they spent 3,000 years respecting the ban and didn't have an opportunity to explore, besides, Edlre'thatlas had a city full of experts, , the Sunstrider highbornew ere onlya handful, and Suramar's shield by it's nature let nothing in or out.

It turns out ,, Suramar's shield may not have been impervious as they thought it was, if they feared the constant bombardment of Legion ships would eventually break the barrier, but we are told the Legion in that attack was the most powerful it had been yet, Gul''dan said it would eventually fall, could have taken years or decades even centiuries, I assume at that time, Suramar was not aware of the rest of the world or the victory of the kaldorei over thel egion, and the knowledge Azedroths defenders had concerning Gul'dan and the legion, or they may have had more faith to stand.

I think Gul'dan's poer face/threat worked, but then Elisdnae used chronomancy to search the future to verify, so she didn't take this lightly, her fault was she tursted too much in her "science" i.e. her magic, and didn't have a little more faith or at least stick to the principle that the Legion's evil should be rejected even at the cost of death.

All of these points are what we could see in the Warcraft games and Alleria Windrunner was speaking so much truth when she mentioned her people's mastery of the arcane, because it is true mastery. When we see it, we see very skilled, very potent Elven Mages, weaving the arcane magic in a way which we have never seen come from the Shen'dralar. I question whether they can actually do the advanced practices that Silvermoon can do. Everything they have done, the Thalassian Elves have already took to, with ease. The arcane, check. The fel, check. The void, check. When we've got Elves called "Void Elves" who specialize in that magic, hearing about a bunch of old, mostly dead Highborne, doing it is not truly impressive at all. Not only the Void Elves took to it, but the Sunfury Blood Elves on Outland took to the Void as well, under High Astromancer Solarian.

And to the point regarding the Sunreaver Mage who destroyed the Nightborne shield. Regardless of whether it was clumsy or sloppy. The point is - he bested it. And your points about Kil'jaedon and Azshara being the big bosses is quite mute because the same rule applies when we were facing Kael'thas, twice over. The Blood Elves, by your own argument, are far more powerful than anything we'd seen.

Yeh, he bested it, we bested Kil'jaeden and Azshara, even Argus, doesn't mean we're more powerful, it means we can be very good, it also doesn't mean that we are overall better at magic or more knowledgeable and our techniques are more advanced.

Point is we have other indicators to prove the relative positions of each of these groups. humans are technically some way behind blood elves, but w still see human mages able to do feats and best blood elf mages - doesn't mean that human magi or magic is more advanced than Blood elven ones.

[Tanaria]

It's not a Dire Maul quest, but a Feralas quest.

Eldre'thalas succeeded almost straight away what was later done with the Ban'dinoriel, elves are ingenious, the High elves were last to the table, but that wasn't because they weren't capable, they spent 3,000 years respecting the ban and didn't have an opportunity to explore, besides, Edlre'thatlas had a city full of experts, , the Sunstrider highbornew ere onlya handful, and Suramar's shield by it's nature let nothing in or out.

It turns out ,, Suramar's shield may not have been impervious as they thought it was, if they feared the constant bombardment of Legion ships would eventually break the barrier, but we are told the Legion in that attack was the most powerful it had been yet, Gul''dan said it would eventually fall, could have taken years or decades even centiuries, I assume at that time, Suramar was not aware of the rest of the world or the victory of the kaldorei over thel egion, and the knowledge Azedroths defenders had concerning Gul'dan and the legion, or they may have had more faith to stand.

I think Gul'dan's poer face/threat worked, but then Elisdnae used chronomancy to search the future to verify, so she didn't take this lightly, her fault was she tursted too much in her "science" i.e. her magic, and didn't have a little more faith or at least stick to the principle that the Legion's evil should be rejected even at the cost of death.


Yeh, he bested it, we bested Kil'jaeden and Azshara, even Argus, doesn't mean we're more powerful, it means we can be very good, it also doesn't mean that we are overall better at magic or more knowledgeable and our techniques are more advanced.

Point is we have other indicators to prove the relative positions of each of these groups. humans are technically some way behind blood elves, but w still see human mages able to do feats and best blood elf mages - doesn't mean that human magi or magic is more advanced than Blood elven ones.

But it wasn't just a handful of Sunstrider Highborne - their were thousands who took exile. Men, women, families. How else would the Highborne have defended themselves against the Amani, before the Trolls began their own spellweaving, if they didn't have the numbers doesn't make sense.

What the Shen'dralar did was just summon a demon to siphon their magical addiction. The eventual warped energies of Dire Maul drew unfriendly faces. Also we have no proof that what the Shen'dralar did would have had the same affect on Gul'dan and his Stormreaver Warlocks.
What the High Elves did was something far beyond that and the leyline pure energy of Quel'Thalas. Hiding the Sunwell from Sargeras for all that time as well as blessing their land into an eternal spring through arcane magic and fighting the Amani outnumbered...again, you can't argue or simply dismiss this and speculate the Shen'dralar did it better because you haven't got that evidence.

I think your missing the overall point. The fact is - Quel'Thalas flourished and was pure without any taints for thousands of years. It avoided the eye of Sargeras and the Legion, whilst the Shen'dralar were drawing on dark powers as their city began to fall in ruins. Also, why was it Jaina Proudmoore who had Darnassus locked down with magical wards...are the Shen'dralar incapable of placing a few basic wards down? You see, this is what I mean...I don't find this group at all impressive. They are just there.

And regarding the quest...an Ogre Warlock did the Horde equivalent to Estulan. Impressive, but not groundbreaking nor does it mean "Oh my god, Shen'dralar absolutely beat Blood Elves." The above proves to me how meh this really is, when an Ogre was able to a similar thing on Horde side.

This is why I rate the Blood Elves as being the top elven mages. Nightborne do come second with Void Elves coming a close third, but as far as I'm concerned, until I see something impressive from the Alliance Shen'dralar (those who we play as, when we pick nelf mages), then they will remain last. I can't speculate on those which haven't done anything and rate them higher than the Blood Elves who have been doing something since they founded their homeland and everything before, during and after TBC. I can't do it. Blood Elves will always be the top mages for me, because they deserve to be there, through all their hardships and shown expertise.

[Mace]

But it wasn't just a handful of Sunstrider Highborne - their were thousands who took exile. Men, women, families. How else would the Highborne have defended themselves against the Amani, before the Trolls began their own spellweaving, if they didn't have the numbers doesn't make sense.

3,000 years later, when I said a handful I was comparing the number at around the Sundering. Eldre'thalas was a city full of Highborne, Suramar was heavily reduced populace, mostly highborne as the priesthood and resistance fighters had all left to go topple Azshara, they had far many more people to be able to device the solutions they did. Each city employed ways that didn't alert the demons to their presence.

The Shen'dralar impressively located a demon to supply their needs, and successfully blocked off any danger to the legion discovering them or Azeroth, while siphoning it's power. Ofc in time it had that backlash effect. Read the information, Azeroth was hidden from the legion till the human intereference, it's obvious that the magic wielding Shen'dralar and Suramar night elves were doing so without alerting the demons or the kaldorei magic suppressors on Hyjal. They were effectively doing with their pylons (Eldre'thalas) and shield (Suramar) what Darth'remars highborne did with the Ban'dinoriel 3,000 years later.

I know you worship them, but this is not putting down the high elves or making them out to be lesser, I'm trying to explain to you that given their unique predicament, it took them longer, not because they weren't capable or potentially as smart, but because of the situation they were in and other factors, like their fewer numbers, both at the start and 3,000 years later, they were still not as large as 2 thriving cities full of Night elves.

I'm not saying your favourite blood elves are terrible or worse just giving some context. Thel ore paints the reality of the situation of the various elven groups. It is obvious Suramar in an un-ruined state is going to be more advanced than Silvermoon, it has retained knowledge lost to those who built Silvermoon, and had an unbroken period of continouous magic practice - and you witness the level of magic usage and level of advancement surpasses that which is shown in Silvermoon despite all the blood elves' advancement. And trust me Animagus magic, and other new techqniues, is not going to make up for the volumes of knowledge lost to the high elves from the Sundering, which remained intact with the Nightborne in Suramar. Think. Ofc Suramar is more advanced, and their arcane mastery higher.

But that's not to say they're necessarily generally smarter people than the sin'dorei. The sin'dorei have shown themselves to be nothing short of brilliant and very resourceful, making much more of far less than either the Shen'dralar or the Shal'dorei did. Although circumstances again are different.

It is what it is. Besides, Suramar stock is not as distinguished as Nar'thalas in Farondis nor is it as distinguished as the Shen'dralar arcanists according to the lore, nor are they as distinguished as the palace highborne of which the blood elves descend from. But despite all that, the elves of Suramar are in a more advanced magical state/city than any of the other elves.

Please understand this does not mean they are better than the other elves or more brilliant or more powerful, they're just have greater arcane mastery, experience, knowledge etc, a 10k+ year old elf in Suramar or Eldre'thalas who never stopped learning, practising and wielding magic, nor lost vast majority of his races' knowledge on the subject is going to be ahead of those who did and who failed to grow to the level and recapture the extent and level of progress. It's just how it is.

It doesn't mean they are more talented or more capable than the blood elves, it just means that at this point they are ahead of them in arcane matters, same with the shen'dralar. But at the rate the blood elves grow, it won't be for long.

[Tanaria]

It doesn't mean they are more talented or more capable than the blood elves, it just means that at this point they are ahead of them in arcane matters, same with the shen'dralar. But at the rate the blood elves grow, it won't be for long.

This is more speculation on the part of the Shen'dralar.
As far as I can see, what the lore states and what the game shows - the Blood Elves have surpassed the Shen'dralar in every single way with their arcane knowledge.
3,000 years of not using the arcane clearly never hindered the Elves as they created a shield where not even Sargeras or the fel taint could touch. Also fending off the Amani as well as blessing their region into an eternal spring and creating the Sunwell and Silvermoon. Out of these three groups, they created the best shield which only disappeared due to Drathir.

Please stop pushing your speculation as common lore. Blood Elves have far more lore with more arcane magical practices and again, I do not believe the Shen'dralar are capable of the things that the Blood Elves have mastered. Blood Magic being one source.

[Mace]

This is more speculation on the part of the Shen'dralar.
As far as I can see, what the lore states and what the game shows - the Blood Elves have surpassed the Shen'dralar in every single way with their arcane knowledge.

The lore neither states, nor does the game show.

The Shen'dralar, like the void elves, are not in a city, and having comforts, but more in refugee state, this doesn't mean the blood elves have surpassed them or are more knoweldeable at all. THe Shen'dralar are over 10k years old, stated in the lore to have been furiously studing their arcane arts over the last 10k years, something even Suramar is not recorded as having that level of dedication, and was a city that survived the Sundering intact and thrived until it started falling to ruin about 1,000 years ago with the culling.

As far as we can tell by description, they're top notch mages with a lot of knowledge, described as the best arcanists in the entire night elf empire, and the ones credited effectively with the genius wonderworks the Queen put out because they processed them often in secret.. what does that tell you?

The game doesn't show them doing JACK all, this is not surprising, they are not the only group, they were poorly executed in game, they just stand around staying stuff, but we do have lore about them.

So where does the lore state the Blood elves have surpassed them? and where does the game show this is actually the case? And as I mentioned not having a city, just like the void elves, doesn't mean you're surprassed by humans who do have one, or blood elves who do.

[Tanaria]

The lore neither states, nor does the game show.

The Shen'dralar, like the void elves, are not in a city, and having comforts, but more in refugee state, this doesn't mean the blood elves have surpassed them or are more knoweldeable at all. THe Shen'dralar are over 10k years old, stated in the lore to have been furiously studing their arcane arts over the last 10k years, something even Suramar is not recorded as having that level of dedication, and was a city that survived the Sundering intact and thrived until it started falling to ruin about 1,000 years ago with the culling.

As far as we can tell by description, they're top notch mages with a lot of knowledge, described as the best arcanists in the entire night elf empire, and the ones credited effectively with the genius wonderworks the Queen put out because they processed them often in secret.. what does that tell you?

The game doesn't show them doing JACK all, this is not surprising, they are not the only group, they were poorly executed in game, they just stand around staying stuff, but we do have lore about them.

So where does the lore state the Blood elves have surpassed them? and where does the game show this is actually the case? And as I mentioned not having a city, just like the void elves, doesn't mean you're surprassed by humans who do have one, or blood elves who do.

Studying and age are not relative in this. You can be old, but that doesn't mean you hold all the cards. Look at Jaina and her arcane knowledge which surprised Thalyssra.
Look at Jaina and it being her who put Darnassus into lockdown during the Divine Bell theft. Where were the Shen'dralar? Basic wards and they are nowhere to be found? I'd expect them, after telling the Alliance about a Horde attack, to have already put things in place but they didn't. It was Jaina.
What does them being revered arcanists processing the queen's demands in secret, tell me? Well...they are top secretive librarians and that's it..

And the Blood Elf description also details:
Blood Elves present a significant force of Arcane mastery in the world of Azeroth. Even before their fall, the Elves were noted for their mastery over Arcane magic.

And your right, the Shen'dralar do nothing. I will not speculate on fantasies about them if they haven't done anything.
Look, the conversation will deviate. I am not prepared to have this debate with you again. I am sticking to my guns with this and will not budge nor be bullied into changing views to suit people. Blood Elves are the best mages for me and I will not alter my views, until I see something significant. The Shen'dralar will remain in the bottom position.

[Mace]

And the Blood Elf description also details:
Blood Elves present a significant force of Arcane mastery in the world of Azeroth. Even before their fall, the Elves were noted for their mastery over Arcane magic.

No one is denying this, I certainly am not, but that's not the issue here, we know blood elves are great at magic, all elves are not just blood elves, night elves the original are, so are Nightborne, high elves, naga, satyr, the lot of them. But I honestly can't take that description and use it as proof they're arcane mastery is on par with the Nightborne, it jus tsays they're a significant force of Arcane mastery, not the best.

Studying and age are not relative in this. You can be old, but that doesn't mean you hold all the cards. Look at Jaina and her arcane knowledge which surprised Thalyssra.
Look at Jaina and it being her who put Darnassus into lockdown during the Divine Bell theft. Where were the Shen'dralar? Basic wards and they are nowhere to be found? I'd expect them, after telling the Alliance about a Horde attack, to have already put things in place but they didn't. It was Jaina.
What does them being revered arcanists processing the queen's demands in secret, tell me? Well...they are top secretive librarians and that's it..

Remember I did say they haven't shown us in game what the She'ndralar can do, they've only described it. Lore descriptions are just as valid btw, not everything is shown immediately, some never get shown, some it takes a long time, but usually either a description or demonstration is available. What we do is take what we are given and draw are conclusions from what we are given whether it's only described or actually shown.

And your right, the Shen'dralar do nothing. I will not speculate on fantasies about them if they haven't done anything.
Look, the conversation will deviate. I am not prepared to have this debate with you again. I am sticking to my guns with this and will not budge nor be bullied into changing views to suit people. Blood Elves are the best mages for me and I will not alter my views, until I see something significant. The Shen'dralar will remain in the bottom position.

All we can go on is what we have been told. I wouldn't draw the conclusion that they are incabpable and inferior to blood elves because the developers haven't written them in action yet, even though they've spoken of their ability/achievements and described what they've been up too.



We all know the Shen'dralar haven't really been touched since cataclysm, they had a piss poor introduction (compare to Suramar - which is basically the Highborne done correctly),a dn they've kinda, not had any insightful detail since. We just see their night elf mages pop up as NPC mage toons in appropriate places.

[Tanaria]

Look, at the end of the day, we disagree. Your simply not going to change my mind with night elf bias speculations over what we see in game and the lore.

Shen'dralar are at the bottom of the pile for me, because they haven't shown anything that other races haven't already done.
My list will remain as is.
1) Blood Elves.
2) Nightborne
3) Void Elves
4) Night elves

[Shiza]

Alleria yes, but the rest? Anyway, presumably void elves would be just as good as blood elves or high elves, since iti s bloode lves and high elves that become void elves so.

Question is, does the void give them an advantage?

I mean, they shift into the void and strengthen themselves with it and canonically, they probably can all some void magic, so I guess this is an advantage? Not to forget that they can teleport.

[AngerFork]

Death Knight - Blood Elf. They understand hunger, how to fight it, and when to feed it. If any elf can understand the curse of a DK, it's a Blood Elf.

Demon Hunter - Tie between Night Elf and Blood Elf. While the first DH was a Night Elf, Blood Elves also greatly understand the need for sacrifice and are willing to do whatever it takes to keep their world safe.

Druid - Night Elf. Their culture is very much based around nature, much like druids.

Hunter - Tie between Night Elf and Blood Elf. Night Elves are a bit more forest-based, but Blood Elves also have knowledge of a wide variety of creatures outside of Eversong.

Mage - Nightborne. They have been feeding on mana for 10,00 years+. It is absolutely who they are.

Monk - None are a great fit here. Maybe Blood Elves would be best after overcoming their addiction to the magic of the Sunwell? Really though, none of the elven cultures really work well with Chi and the flow of energy from oneself.

Paladin - Night Elf. While Blood Elves initially stole the Naaru, Night Elves have worshipped the Light of Elune forever with fervent devotion. I'm not sure why that same light wouldn't shine back on them in a Paladin-ish style.

Priest - Void Elf for Shadow, Blood Elf for Holy/Disc. Especially after the events of the Sunwell raid.

Rogue - Void Elf. What better way to sneak through the shadows than with the power of the Void?

Shaman - None are great fits here, but Night Elves are the closest. Their culture being based around nature would likely play well with learning from/dealing with the elements.

Warlock - Tie between Nightborne & Void Elf. Both have proven willing to work with non-desirable beings in order to further protect themselves and their families.

Warrior - Anyone will do here. None seem to have greater/lesser strength here and there's a reason all races have Warriors.

[Mace]

Look, at the end of the day, we disagree. Your simply not going to change my mind with night elf bias speculations over what we see in game and the lore.

Shen'dralar are at the bottom of the pile for me, because they haven't shown anything that other races haven't already done.
My list will remain as is.
1) Blood Elves.
2) Nightborne
3) Void Elves
4) Night elves

Not all night elf mages are Shen'dralar, that particular group has it's distinctions whether you agree or not, but there are others, to be honest, I can't see any advantage any other derivative elf has over a night elf, and vice versa. Night elves who use the arcane have a huge advantage as having been doing so for 10k millennia like the Nightborne, to me that puts them above all younger ones, like blood elves and void elves. Ofc I'm speaking on a racial individual level.

Talent wise, blood elves have no more innate arcane capability than night elves, i'd say they probably have less. Nightborne it's impossible to tell, on the one hand the constant arcane feeding might have made their bodies more inducive to it, but on the downside it corrupted them, and that has drawbacks, the night elf is in a much healthier position and is the original enhancement. The Thalassian was a downgrade, they devolved a little bit, their sunwell enhancement perks them up again, but it's not at the level of the original, which is why they don't live as long, get addicted more easily and can't retain as well.

Ofc this has little to do with magical aptitude or talent, you're either born with it or not, but to assume the night elves can't churn out another Azshara, Illidan or Elisande is to be blind and ignorant to their lore and to ignore it. They've been 15,000 years around the waters of the well of eternity and connected to the arcane lifeblood of Azeroth, it's part of their make up, whether the majority of them don't use the arcane or those talented with it amongst the Darnassians weren't utlsiling it because of the ban. Night elf arcane talent should be unquestioned, you have the history, and individuals to prove it, and the lore description. If you're saying no because you don't see Darnassians magically pwning other people, then by your logic you should just accept humans are superior to blood elves because their mages are shown doing far grater feats than blood elven ones rather regularly. Yet you won't, because you don't just go on what the game shows you in characters, but by what the lore also tells.

But I notice with you that all of a sudden doesn't matter when it comes to night elf mages, and how dare anyone suggest precious blood elves aren't vastly superior, or worse, inferior, perish the thought the devolved version can't handle as much as the 10k + year original.



If we are looking at the progress and development of arcane in the society, totally different ballgame. by that standard, you have

1. Nightborne - Suramar and Nightborne magic > blood elves
2. Void elves - though homeless, the entire society regardless of class is magical
3. Blood elves - while magic tradition continues strongly, it isn't as all encompassing in society as it is amongst the Nightborne or Void elves
4. Night elves - because the Shen'dralar and their reinstated highborne order are but a small portion of the kaldorei community number wise, they are operate with them mostly, not separately like the void elves do.


If we were to switch arcane for magic overall. We'll have
1. Void elves
2. Nightborne
3. Blood elves
4. Night elves

You seem to be conflating several aspects, but I have broken them down into a more specific line, distinguishing magical aptitude, talent, capacity of the race versus the prevalence and practice in society, or development in society.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, they shift into the void and strengthen themselves with it and canonically, they probably can all some void magic, so I guess this is an advantage? Not to forget that they can teleport.

Yeh, I would imagine the void gives them a strong advantage for it's power, but is it a combination or a replacement - class mechanics suggest combo, but lore describes as replacement.

- - - Updated - - -

Paladin - Night Elf. While Blood Elves initially stole the Naaru, Night Elves have worshipped the Light of Elune forever with fervent devotion. I'm not sure why that same light wouldn't shine back on them in a Paladin-ish style.

.

Imo, Night elf paladin would be one of the greatest only if it was introduced in respect to a Warrior of the Night and/or a magical aspect of the sentinels that hadn't been previously expanded on.

If it is night elves following human tenets of the light, then they'd be bliming novices at the bottom of the pack.