[Spoilers] Shadowlands: Afterlives Cinematic Discussion

[Timester]

I believe that the Lich King was/is the cornerstone of the plan to brake the order in Shadowlands. As we see in this very cinematic- "this dark agent runs free on a mortal world, with the power of the Maw itself", that bit took place before(or at the very least durring) WotLK. The events were set into motion long before Legion. Arthas is abso-fvckin-lutely going to play a HUGE ROLE in the culmination of this expansion.

Arthas isn't even needed to play any role in this expansion, since it seems he was an Agent of the Maw without even knowing. Uther's role is actually more important for the reforms that the Shadowlands need.

[Combatbutler]

So from what I gather, some Void presence is trapped into the Maw and the Light reigns supreme over the Shadowlands? That's what the Bastion lines made me feel.

Nope, neither power holds sway in the shadowlands, both have tried to breach it at one point though.

[Combatbutler]

I don't dispute that. I just think that the extreme adherence to tradition in Bastion did not allow for Devos' concerns to actually be processed in any way. She was just shut down hard so she sought her own answers

It is a problem, but at the same time it isn't. Due to their very function, doubt is not something their society can actually afford and any kind of reform could have disastrous consequences on the entire shadowlands, yet at the same time they will overlook things due to this dogma.

[UndedoKoleda]

Arthas isn't even needed to play any role in this expansion, since it seems he was an Agent of the Maw without even knowing. Uther's role is actually more important for the reforms that the Shadowlands need.

Yeah, and someone is going to have to pay for that. *wink*

[TheTaurenChieftain]

I find the whole Bastion Covenant fits Uther pretty well. Aerdenwald also fits Ysera pretty well. But to be honest I am kinda missing a shamanistic or anchestral afterlife for races like the Tauren, Orc Shamans or even trolls.

I don't think any of those Afterlives really fit the more "savage" horde races pretty well. All of those Afterlives seem to be designed for humans, night elfs, undead, any kind of elves, Draenei etc.

But nothing in Shadowlands really seems connected to "the elements" or the "Earth mother" etc. Would have been cool to have a fifth covenant or maybe remove one of them to add an anchestral covenant.

[Valandale]

Absolutely none of the Bastion short makes any damn sense. Arthas' own soul was taken by Frostmourne already looooooong before ICC, so uhh how did they get it then? When Frostmourne broke? I thought in Legion DKs had to go back into the shards which still held the souls.

[deviantcultist]

Nope, neither power holds sway in the shadowlands, both have tried to breach it at one point though.

I see. Is that lore leaked from the Beta?

Some people told me that Light vs Void is heavily foreshadowed in the Shadowlands story - just as much as "Death" was in BfA. Is that correct?

[Combatbutler]

Consider this; the main point of the Christian religion was to create the opportunity for God to intervene in the cycle of death. The Light probably invades the Shadowlands to rescue souls (it's entirely possible that's what A'dal did for Bridenbrad; marked his soul so they could kidnap it into the Light instead of having him end up before the Arbiter). Odyn's Valarjar are effectively the same; an Arcane entity's scheme to steal souls from the Shadowlands. Heck the Brokers don't seem to be from the Shadowlands, they keep crossing into our world to steal things and resell them.

It makes them all thieves nothing more, nothing less and I would say the brokers are native to the shadowlands and are doing what the other planes are doing ,stealing from other planes.

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I see. Is that lore leaked from the Beta?

Some people told me that Light vs Void is heavily foreshadowed in the Shadowlands story - just as much as "Death" was in BfA. Is that correct?

It is beta lore the void outright invaded Maldraxxus and Bastion at one point and a third of revendreth was/is scorched by light.

[Syegfryed]

Absolutely none of the Bastion short makes any damn sense. Arthas' own soul was taken by Frostmourne already looooooong before ICC, so uhh how did they get it then? When Frostmourne broke? I thought in Legion DKs had to go back into the shards which still held the souls.

pretty sure all the souls were free once frostmourne was shattered, could be wrong, but its whats show in ICC

[KainneAbsolute]

I find the whole Bastion Covenant fits Uther pretty well. Aerdenwald also fits Ysera pretty well. But to be honest I am kinda missing a shamanistic or anchestral afterlife for races like the Tauren, Orc Shamans or even trolls.

I don't think any of those Afterlives really fit the more "savage" horde races pretty well. All of those Afterlives seem to be designed for humans, night elfs, undead, any kind of elves, Draenei etc.

But nothing in Shadowlands really seems connected to "the elements" or the "Earth mother" etc. Would have been cool to have a fifth covenant or maybe remove one of them to add an anchestral covenant.

I hope we get additional zones in 9.2

[Edward Wu]

Does anyone else find it interesting how Arthas' soul in the Shadowlands is never conscious, but a limp body? Really weird and I assume that will be a plot point.

[Combatbutler]

Here is the thing. Who gets to decide that mortality is normal?

Time and age, you have some potentially ageless races, but ultimately even they die. Life as a rule cannot sustain itself indefinitely, which is why the whole balance shenanigans have been brought up so much in Bfa, eventually you even die in the shadowlands for good.

[Aucald]

I see. Is that lore leaked from the Beta?

Some people told me that Light vs Void is heavily foreshadowed in the Shadowlands story - just as much as "Death" was in BfA. Is that correct?

I don't know if I would say "heavily foreshadowed," but the Light and Void are definitely present in Shadowlands and have effects on the zone stories and lore. YMMV as to whether this presages the next story or not.

[Combatbutler]

Titans and their titanforged are all pretty much immortal. Demons don't give a crap about shadowlands either. The Naaru have their own cycle of life and death that skips the Shadowlands as well. Time magic can allow crazy shenanigans as well, what with an Aspect being able to make an entire people immortal. Mortality is just not the only way things go.

Those are exceptions and even these exception don't last forever, ultimately they too die whether through disease or conflict, but death comes regardless. It is inevitable. The vast majority of the cosmos grow up and die of old age, the typical cycle of life.

Prime example night elves, they were immortal and nowadays most of them are dead through conflict.

[deviantcultist]

It makes them all thieves nothing more, nothing less and I would say the brokers are native to the shadowlands and are doing what the other planes are doing ,stealing from other planes.

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It is beta lore the void outright invaded Maldraxxus

Is that something we learn as we level before we get to pick covenants?

[Combatbutler]

Is that something we learn as we level before we get to pick covenants?

Yeah, it is pretty much in your face, while you level

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

So, basically, Uther's soul was broken into two, as we see it in the video. One part absorbed into the Frostmourne, the other picked up by Devos.

And that's why Uther's ascension was impossible, because he wasn't complete and was wounded.

I even dare to speculate that this was part of Jailer's plan to start chaos in the Bastion.

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One half into the Frostmourne and the other Devos picked up.

So that's the thing for me right now, how much of this was orchestrated by the Jailer and how much has just been mistake after mistake.

Did the Jailer made a deal with the Nathrezim to smuggle the armor of Damnation with Frostmourne and start the whole chain of events? Or it has all just been coincidence after the Nathrezim stole it, and the Jailer is just using the opportunity?

But regardless of that, I do think part of Uther's arc will be to repair his soul, reuniting his Bastion self with the Frostmourne self that is now hanging out on his tomb.

My question is; is it normal -or at least not unusual- for souls to be split/damaged like this? Cause maybe a lot of the ghosts we see are under similar conditions, or this was just something Frostmourne could do.

If so... is it possible that Sylvanas herself has a part of her soul wandering somewhere else? ... Or already on the Shadowlands, and it was the part that Frostmourne took that got made into a banshee?

[LemonDemonGirl]

I find the whole Bastion Covenant fits Uther pretty well. Aerdenwald also fits Ysera pretty well. But to be honest I am kinda missing a shamanistic or anchestral afterlife for races like the Tauren, Orc Shamans or even trolls.

I don't think any of those Afterlives really fit the more "savage" horde races pretty well. All of those Afterlives seem to be designed for humans, night elfs, undead, any kind of elves, Draenei etc.

But nothing in Shadowlands really seems connected to "the elements" or the "Earth mother" etc. Would have been cool to have a fifth covenant or maybe remove one of them to add an anchestral covenant.

Trolls get Bwonland (the Other Side) , which is... in freaking Ardenweald instead of somewhere else that's more shamanistic. Feels showhorned to me

(But hey, at least their afterlife is true/real! /s)

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yeah, it is pretty much in your face, while you level

There's a whole lot of hints that the Shadowlands don't care for either Void of Light -maybe because Void and Light created the physical universe- but it's clear that the Void wants to get a foothold, and the light itself is reaching Revendreth.

So are Light and Shadow trying to get a foothold there?

Has the Jailer picked a side? Does this all connect to Calia being reanimated by the Light? Is it relevant to her relationship to Arthas?

IS THE LIGHT ALLYING ITSELF WITH DEATH AND HAS BEEN USING THE MENETHILS AS PAWNS? First Arthas descent into madness, delivering him unto unddeath, and now Calia as their combined agent??

[LemonDemonGirl]

Does anyone else find it interesting how Arthas' soul in the Shadowlands is never conscious, but a limp body? Really weird and I assume that will be a plot point.

Yeah it looks like he just 'fell asleep' and his soul was just yeeted into the Maw. But he's also recently dead, so maybe he hasn't realized what around him yet?