Will Blizzard nerf your "meaningful choice"?

[Kaver]

No. I do not concern myself with what others think. I play the game for my enjoyment. If something gets nerfed, oh well, I'll adjust. I have picked my covenants on how the abilities fit my play-style not how much damage, healing, mitigation, speed, or utility they do or give. So if the numbers go down it's not going to matter to me. And since that is all that matters, my enjoyment, why the fuck should I care how you feel if something gets nerfed?

Yes why care about other people. 100 points to you for being a good human. Jesus would be proud.

[SirBeef]

Yes why care about other people. 100 points to you for being a good human. Jesus would be proud.

Twisting the context. 1/10 for effort.

[Kaver]

Artifact came with extra spell as well, but yeah, it was tied to spec. So we can tell than difference is that instead of 2/3/4 specs we will have 8/12/16 "specs". But mechanism of switching from spec you thought is best to spec that was hotfixed to be best just before raid remains the same.

I'm talking about covenants.

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Again - you're implying covenants other than the best one on paper have no power. You severely overestimate how many people care about min maxing

A very major part of the players will care if they do 10% less damage then their teammate because of their covenant choice. This is by far only about cutting edge players.

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Twisting the context. 1/10 for effort.

You just said you don't care about other peoples enjoyment of the game. Only your own. You seem like a nice guy.

[Gaidax]

I honestly don't know how these ideas get past the first meeting.

In the best, utopian, scenario, it'd be a cute little mechanic that would last an expansion and would just add some flavour to what's essentially the same Artifact system of the last two expansions.

On the other hand, they have to alienate the story, balance hundreds of completely different abilities and traits, and deal with different kinds of players interacting with this system with entirely different expectations.

I'd say the development costs and risks are much, much higher than any benefit they can expect to get out of it.

These ideas went through because ultimately Blizz realizes that over-achievers will pick best performance option anyway. In a game where community faints over 5% differences, there would always be a top pick no matter what they do. So if that is the case, what's the point sweating over it? People who care so much will take top covenant anyway.

This game is soon 16 years old and I have yet to see this ephemeral balance nirvana, so if that's the case then whatever really. Ion himself said covenants won't be balanced and at most he hopes deltas are not too huge, that's all.

They will do best effort attempt to balance it once or twice, but you can bet your ass - they will end up with covenant X being "mandatory" for class Y and dogshit for class Z and they will just shrug and move on.

[Xilurm]

Yes why care about other people. 100 points to you for being a good human. Jesus would be proud.

Really? This is a thread about a mechanic of a game. Are you really that upset people don't agree with you that you bring real life into this?

[Dracullus]

I'm talking about covenants.

I was comparing covenants to artifacts.

[Kaver]

10% in some circumstances

Let's not forget damage tuning isn't done yet

I'm curious what your solution is - remove all damage effects from covenants?

10 % in a lot of circumstances.

Blizzard suck at balancing. Especially when they put multiple layers on top of each other.

There is no easy solution to fix it now. But they could at least not nerf abilities after launch so people who care about performance will not feel bad about their choice later on.

[Eapoe]

Twisting the context. 1/10 for effort.

You literally stated exactly that. The context wasn’t twisted, just called I to question you being a decent person.

[Gaidax]

But it matters for other people. But you don't care about them right?

People for whom it "matters" will learn to live with it. They will go to class discord, pick whatever is in the pins and be done with it and if in 9.1 it changes, they will just do it all over again and that's all.

I am a cutting edge raider for many years, for me it matters, but I don't do such a drama out of it because I know I'll just pick optimal choice that will be mathed out to bones and roll with it, that all.

And if it gets nerfed, I'll just flip to the next best thing in the line, even if I'd have to do a month or so of catch up, which is not OOoooOoOOooOoooo insane requirement for expansion that lasts 2 years.

[Niwes]

But I still think the overwhelming majority care about having optimal conditions. If someone goes into a M+ even if it's a casual +15 they still want to use the best ability. The idea that only the 1% care about power is a myth.

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But it's not just about "maximum output". Casuals care about having the right abilities. You can compared it to essences. Most people rather want to use Focusing Iris compare to Condensed Life-Force when doing a M+. But they probably don't want to be locked into Focusing Iris in raids. It's not only about the 1%. Most people care about these types of abilities.

yeah, 100% this. imo over 90% care about „ideal“ things regardless if they are casual or not. for the fact alone, that humans are neurotic. many ppl just bring all factions to exalted, just that all green bars are up and it looks „right“.

that „only minmaxers care about covenants dps“ is biggest garbage ever was told. ppl care. and it just feels like a bad taste, when they go into m+5 and look at recount and ask theirselfes „had i done more dps with another cov?“. yes, the answer is: in m+5 its totally useless to do a bit more or less dmg. but this changes the upcoming of the question of that player and the bad taste in ZERO way.

ppl who do not understand this, either are the most naive ppl on planet. or are zero neurotic (which is a veeery tiny minority). or lie.

[SirBeef]

I'm talking about covenants.

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A very major part of the players will care if they do 10% less damage then their teammate because of their covenant choice. This is by far only about cutting edge players.

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You just said you don't care about other peoples enjoyment of the game. Only your own. You seem like a nice guy.

And you twisted that to claiming I don't care about other people at all. You specifically asked how I would feel if my choice got nerfed. I replied I wouldn't care. Then you shifted the goalposts as if I should care if others felt differently. I don't care if others don't like a nerf or not. That shit doesn't concern me.

[Kaver]

Really? This is a thread about a mechanic of a game. Are you really that upset people don't agree with you that you bring real life into this?

The guys said he didn't care about other people enjoyment of the game.

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And you twisted that to claiming I don't care about other people at all. You specifically asked how I would feel if my choice got nerfed. I replied I wouldn't care. Then you shifted the goalposts as if I should care if others felt differently. I don't care if others don't like a nerf or not. That shit doesn't concern me.

Well I care about other people. Sorry that you don't. I hope you enjoy the game.

[SirBeef]

You literally stated exactly that. The context wasn’t twisted, just called I to question you being a decent person.

Insinuation was made becasue I don't care if other don't like a nerf that I don't care about people.

[Kaver]

People for whom it "matters" will learn to live with it.

But how is this good?

[SirBeef]

The guys said he didn't care about other people enjoyment of the game.

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Well I care about other people. Sorry that you don't. I hope you enjoy the game.

I do. You don't see me here daily whining like a bitch as many others do.

[Gaidax]

But how is this good?

It's good for the game, this game lost too much with spoonfeeding and homogenization. It's ok for it to have meaningful flavor both in theme and abilities and people are flexible - those who care will adapt.

It's not some sort of shocking development there and it's being overblown as fuck too considering the choice is not even permanent and can be changed and caught up fast anyway.

[Xilurm]

The guys said he didn't care about other people enjoyment of the game.

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Well I care about other people. Sorry that you don't. I hope you enjoy the game.

Well if he enjoys covenants as they are, whats the problem? I don't care if people don't like stuff in the game either, what's so wrong with that? You can't satisfy everyone, and you shouldn't try.

[Krawu]

It's weird really.

They want the choice to be "meaningful", whatever they mean by that word, but if it's too meaningful and people start "having fun "the wrong way" (ie. everyone picking a certain covenant for gameplay reasons) I'm 100% sure they will nerf it to the ground instead of just buffing the other ones.

[Kaver]

I do. You don't see me here daily whining like a bitch as many others do.

Good for you. But you still said yourself that you only care about your own enjoyment of the game. Caring about other people is not a selective topic. But I guess some people only look out for themselves.

[Eapoe]

Insinuation was made becasue I don't care if other don't like a nerf that I don't care about people.

Insinuation was made by you for phrasing how you did. It’s not the other person’s fault for misinterpretation when the way it is phrased leads directly to that interpretation.