[Theory] Turalyon will usurp Anduin/Takeover Stormwind

[shoc]

Calling it now, Lothraxion will be to Turalyon what Varimathras was to Sylvanas.

[Aucald]

Calling it now, Lothraxion will be to Turalyon what Varimathras was to Sylvanas.

Lothraxion doesn't really stick around after Legion, does he? Has he been sighted anywhere in BfA?

[Jinpachi]

So the light forces, lead by turalyon, are basically scientologists. Great

[jellmoo]

Ok.... then what? Will Alliance players lose another capital city?

There's no reason they would. A power sruggle doesn't need to mean that the city is suddenly hostile. Just changed. Think Org in Cataclysm.

Also why would the nobles support Turalyon when Anduin comes back? They are supporting him only because he's the best option left, they wouldn't support him if the rightful king returned.

If whatever policies that Turalyon imposes make them richer, why would they want Anduin back? Rich people want wealth and power above all else. If Turalyon ives it to them, why support Anduin?

Oh, and obviously why would Turalyon turn into an evil Light psycho in the first place? Velen/Greymane/Alleria would realize that Lothraxion is up to no good, they are not stupid, they would stop Turalyon if they realized he's going down a dark path.

Because change can be subtle and incremental. Something that can be for "the greater good" can seem like a good idea, but turn into a slippery slope. There are countless real world examples of leaders using this line of thinking to get people on their side.

[Ardenaso]

perhaps the "enemy of all" meant the Scarlet Crusade?

... or what's left of it, perhaps? There's Mariella Ward and the Scarlet Pilgrims, and then there's the Brotherhood of the Light who claims to be "Scarlet Crusade but no stupidity"

[Magister of Quelthalas]

Yeah. Sadly Blizzard dont go nuanced, interesting stories. Instead they go with basic stuff like Anduin being the king everyone likes. Also he is totally the High King of the Alliance because his father before him was and we all now the leadership of a military cooperation is succeeded by hereditary lines right?

[Varodoc]

There's no reason they would. A power sruggle doesn't need to mean that the city is suddenly hostile. Just changed. Think Org in Cataclysm.



If whatever policies that Turalyon imposes make them richer, why would they want Anduin back? Rich people want wealth and power above all else. If Turalyon ives it to them, why support Anduin?



Because change can be subtle and incremental. Something that can be for "the greater good" can seem like a good idea, but turn into a slippery slope. There are countless real world examples of leaders using this line of thinking to get people on their side.

This is not power struggle, this is Turalyon taking over Stormwind and usurping Anduin.

Nobles are not so shallow that they only care about wealth. Do you really think a medieval noble would support a foreign impostor instead of their rightful monarch?

[Razion]

I don't really see Turalyon as the kind of person who falls to corruption - he was always the idealist when he was younger, though I guess now that he's war-torn he isn't really that shining pinnacle of the Light he used to be and is now just a kind of juggernaut figure so I guess I could see him being stupidly manipulated to breaking an ancient seal and unleashing a terrible evil, even if it works against his portrayal of him being a brilliant or inspiring General.

Him resulting in this kind of stupid and demoralizing act of dooming his people from the responsibility entrusted to him by a king would be almost exactly the opposite of how his origins started when he avenged the death of Lothar. So I guess to some degree it's tragic. It's just kind of sad that a character that starts out so idealist and inspiring would just ultimately end up doing more harm than good. It kind of gives a sour message, though maybe throughout if Turalyon isn't painted as the kind of person people would want to aspire to be, I guess that could make people feel a bit better about it. After all I suppose, he was on the side of Xe'ra initially so I guess Turalyon hasn't really been all too much a pinnacle of righteousness all this time as it were anyway so maybe this dark path is actually more appropriate an ending for how he has been progressing as a person if he's not going to be a kind of beacon of hope otherwise.

[Ardenaso]

I don't really see Turalyon as the kind of person who falls to corruption - he was always the idealist when he was younger, though I guess now that he's war-torn he isn't really that shining pinnacle of the Light he used to be and is now just a kind of juggernaut figure so I guess I could see him being stupidly manipulated to breaking an ancient seal and unleashing a terrible evil, even if it works against his portrayal of him being a brilliant or inspiring General.

Him resulting in this kind of stupid and demoralizing act of dooming his people from the responsibility entrusted to him by a king would be almost exactly the opposite of how his origins started when he avenged the death of Lothar. So I guess to some degree it's tragic. It's just kind of sad that a character that starts out so idealist and inspiring would just ultimately end up doing more harm than good. It kind of gives a sour message, though maybe throughout if Turalyon isn't painted as the kind of person people would want to aspire to be, I guess that could make people feel a bit better about it. After all I suppose, he was on the side of Xe'ra initially so I guess Turalyon hasn't really been all too much a pinnacle of righteousness all this time as it were anyway so maybe this dark path is actually more appropriate an ending for how he has been progressing as a person if he's not going to be a kind of beacon of hope otherwise.

I just want to see how he reacts when he learns that the Alliance Lordaeronians were wiped out from Southshore, Hillsbrad, and Theramore and then see the narrative of the Scarlet Crusade for teh lulz

[Magnagarde]

There's very few ways left to make Turalyon looks less of the character everyone anticipated him to be. From running away from the Burning Legion's constructs to usurping the faction that holds him in highest regard, it would be a natural progression of Blizzard's weak and unsymbolic treatment of Turalyon.

Turalyon's arc in Legion is one of the biggest letdowns of hype in recent Warcraft history and the second biggest mistake in character development, right after Garrosh.

They'll most likely use TBC's Arathor dialogue from Honor Hold, but in their own modern version that is wholly detached from the original intent; players kill Turalyon with the help of Arathor and he dies in his hands under a crimson sky or whatever the line was. They'll then continue embracing the "powerful", void-infused Alleria because her character provides the necessary edge and oomph on parr with 2020's storytelling standards. Blizzard has clearly shown that they're playing roulette with the entire franchise's cosmological power chart, so much so that powers that make tentacles grow out of living beings and make them hear a thousand voices at the same time are considered debatably good.

[Razion]

I just want to see how he reacts when he learns that the Alliance Lordaeronians were wiped out from Southshore, Hillsbrad, and Theramore and then see the narrative of the Scarlet Crusade for teh lulz

I feel like Turalyon was at his best when he was helping those around him, serving, and healing, as the bright-eyed fresh-faced recruit, surrounded and overwhelmed but doing his best and just trying to help where he ultimately took up a responsibility larger than himself by avenging Lothar against impossible odds with nothing but a broken sword and a rallying cry and pulling faith from inside himself he didn't even know he had to be something more than he was. The Turalyon of now is just kind of a brash and strong figure, who I think in the face of this kind of situation would be more likely to just make a plan and execute it rather than be an empathetic character on the field sympathizing with those around him and pulling on the relationship of a mentor to find inner strength. That kind of role now falls more to a character like Anduin, which we even specifically saw recently at Undercity, so kind of retreading that ground would probably feel a bit soon imo.

But otherwise what's left for Turalyon I see is probably more a moment like Varian where a big epic fight could be serviceable. But if they were thinking of going back to that kind of earlier Turalyon later, there's probably some opportunity for Turalyon to meet with Lothar and rediscover that part of himself he may have lost over the years and to find his roots again - but if Turalyon has the throne now there doesn't seem a lot of opportunity for him to get involved in SL and have that kind of moment. Though, I guess if the Shadowlands sticks around there will be opportunity in the future for Turalyon to reunite with Lothar.

One of the problems with Southshore, Hillsbrad, Theramore, and the Scarlet Crusade for Turalyon is that he has been gone for such a long time, that if he had any lingering connections to a lot of those people he would have become detached from his many years away at war with the Army of the Light. So I don't see him empathizing much with Humanity unless he has a connection with someone like Lothar again. Turalyon right now may relate and empathize more to the Draenei and Lightforged around him than other Humans... which, of itself, could probably be a lot more interesting to observe I think than Humans being concerned with Human kingdoms all the time. It isn't too often we get the opportunity to see a character of authority like Turalyon actually have a storied reason to have a lot of concern for the matters of other races.

[Magnagarde]

In Before the Storm, Turalyon was shown to be changing his ways, the ones he acquired over the millenium of galactic warfare, kneeling and being overwhelmed by Anduin's take on the undead. They however are hinting that Lothraxion might be an agent of the Jailer or a greater, overarching mastermind and this leaves a lot of opportunity for corrupting Turalyon through his closest advisors, twisting his judgement. Text was datamined from an ingame item that hints at the possibility of all dreadlords serving a greater mastermind and being intentionally sent by it to infiltrate the various cosmic powers.

[About50spiders]

This is not power struggle, this is Turalyon taking over Stormwind and usurping Anduin.

Nobles are not so shallow that they only care about wealth. Do you really think a medieval noble would support a foreign impostor instead of their rightful monarch?

I may be misremembering, but wasn’t the last time the Nobles came up storywise a complete and utter disaster tied directly to issues regarding money? You know...what happened with the stonemasons?

Now the second Anduin is away they suddenly resurface in the story. Not a good sign.

The fact they are mentioned to be fully supporting Turalyon is absolutely concerning….and it would be pretty silly if these guys were suddenly reintroduced as figures of rational support for Anduin at the exact time Alliance drama is on the horizon. The House of Nobles have played a roll in Alliance drama in the past.

Turalyon is a goddamn superstar to Stormwind. Shadows Rising, the book setting up what’s to come in Shadowlands, highlights this in multiple places. This guy and his wife have statues. These are big damn heroes. They have legends! They have songs!

Of course the nobles would want Turalyon on the throne instead. He would have the support of the priests, of the paladins, of the people. We don’t know what those nobles think of Anduin yet. Wouldn’t it be a dull story if they just thought Anduin was doing great?

And Roux has stated in interview with Nobbel “I think maybe you’re not reading closely enough if you think that there aren’t things in this book that are absolutely going to come back, and are important, and are set ups for things.”

Turalyon did something shocking, something morally gray for what he considers the greater good in that book. This is laying the groundwork for Turalyon doing something very morally gray in the game too. I, for one, am excited to see this.

[Varodoc]

I may be misremembering, but wasn’t the last time the Nobles came up storywise a complete and utter disaster tied directly to issues regarding money? You know...what happened with the stonemasons?

Now the second Anduin is away they suddenly resurface in the story. Not a good sign.

The fact they are mentioned to be fully supporting Turalyon is absolutely concerning….and it would be pretty silly if these guys were suddenly reintroduced as figures of rational support for Anduin at the exact time Alliance drama is on the horizon. The House of Nobles have played a roll in Alliance drama in the past.

Turalyon is a goddamn superstar to Stormwind. Shadows Rising, the book setting up what’s to come in Shadowlands, highlights this in multiple places. This guy and his wife have statues. These are big damn heroes. They have legends! They have songs!

Of course the nobles would want Turalyon on the throne instead. He would have the support of the priests, of the paladins, of the people. We don’t know what those nobles think of Anduin yet. Wouldn’t it be a dull story if they just thought Anduin was doing great?

And Roux has stated in interview with Nobbel “I think maybe you’re not reading closely enough if you think that there aren’t things in this book that are absolutely going to come back, and are important, and are set ups for things.”

Turalyon did something shocking, something morally gray for what he considers the greater good in that book. This is laying the groundwork for Turalyon doing something very morally gray in the game too. I, for one, am excited to see this.

The nobles refused to pay the Stonemasons because of Onyxia's manipulations. They did not orchestrate the drama, they were simply victims of Onyxia, just like Varian.

Why would they not support Turalyon? Anduin chose him as his steward, the fact that the nobles support him prove that they are fully on board with Anduin's decision and completely trust him. It would be worrisome if the nobles did not support Turalyon as regent, because that would mean that they also disagree with Anduin and are disloyal.

Finally, the nobles were never removed from the storyline. They were always there in the background. They just weren't mentioned much because they don't have a lot of influence in the Alliance. One line of dialogue of them supporting Turalyon doesn't mean anything, because Anduin himself also supports Turalyon as regent. No conflict or drama is being set up here.

[baskev]

I doubt this will happen because it's not really in Turalyon's character, but I don't think it would be a bad development all in all because I feel the Alliance could use some internal drama like this. But perhaps Turalyon may feel that the Anduin that returns from the Maw isn't the true Anduin - perhaps he may even be *right*.

Think the correct word would be could have.

Giving alliance a civil war/big drama after garrosh and sylvannas civil wars seems a bit weak and bad story writing. But a non physical conflict could be nice for the alliance. But sadly they will not write it like that.

[Vargrik]

The nobles refused to pay the Stonemasons because of Onyxia's manipulations. They did not orchestrate the drama, they were simply victims of Onyxia, just like Varian.

Why would they not support Turalyon? Anduin chose him as his steward, the fact that the nobles support him prove that they are fully on board with Anduin's decision and completely trust him. It would be worrisome if the nobles did not support Turalyon as regent, because that would mean that they also disagree with Anduin and are disloyal.

Finally, the nobles were never removed from the storyline. They were always there in the background. They just weren't mentioned much because they don't have a lot of influence in the Alliance. One line of dialogue of them supporting Turalyon doesn't mean anything, because Anduin himself also supports Turalyon as regent. No conflict or drama is being set up here.

Because they could also be manipulated by the Light and its acolytes (priests/paladins)? They could probably act thinking they are doing the right thing, while it would not be the case.

[Varodoc]

Because they could also be manipulated by the Light and its acolytes (priests/paladins)? They could probably act thinking they are doing the right thing, while it would not be the case.

I addressed this in my first post. Turalyon is surrounded by many people who could help him resist the temptations of Lothraxion (really, he is the only supposedly malicious Light-user out there). Greymane, Shaw, Alleria, Vereesa, possibly Velen (he spends a lot of time in Stormwind) would all talk some sense into Turalyon.

The Horde would also intervene if they noticed that Turalyon is being led astray. Calia, Derek, and Mayla are all people who have history with the Alliance and Stormwind and would definitely act if they realized that the Alliance is acting strange.

[Aucald]

Think the correct word would be could have.

Giving alliance a civil war/big drama after garrosh and sylvannas civil wars seems a bit weak and bad story writing. But a non physical conflict could be nice for the alliance. But sadly they will not write it like that.

I don't think anything of note will happen with either the Alliance or Horde's leadership during Shadowlands, as the focus of the story is more on distant lands and events. The next expansion, though, could be ripe for Alliance-centric drama of this sort. It would be nice to see the Alliance actually take the fore in the rising action for once, as opposed to its generally reactive state for the majority of WoW's ongoing story. A Light vs. Void type of story could do a lot to expose the unexplored rift in Alliance culture, like a revitalized and newly militant Army of the Light based in Azeroth engaging in a cold war with the Void Elves, or anyone else who doesn't accept the dictates of the Light immediately.

[Vargrik]

I addressed this in my first post. Turalyon is surrounded by many people who could help him resist the temptations of Lothraxion (really, he is the ony malicious Light-user out there, supposedly). Greymane, Shaw, Alleria, Vereesa, possibly Velen (he spends a lot of time in Stormwind) would all talk some sense into Turalyon.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think you are parting from the principle that the Light is inherently GOOD. I'd say that's a matter of point of view. Lothraxion could be someone simply helping Turalyon and co. to take things too far.

[Varodoc]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think you are parting from the principle that the Light is inherently GOOD. I'd say that's a matter of point of view. Lothraxion could be someone simply helping Turalyon and co. to take things too far.

That's what I said. The Light is not inherently good, it is merely a weapon, but all Light users in the Alliance are good. Lothraxion might be a double agent in the Light, he is the only one close to Turalyon who might carry evil intentions, so naturally he would be the only one trying to manipulate Turalyon into doing something evil to destabylize the fragile peace on Azeroth.

But really we don't even know if Lothraxion is evil. First we don't know if the author of that document is a dreadlord, then we don't know if Lothraxion is still double agent or was truly converted by the Light. I just mentioned Lothraxion because I can't think of anyone else close to Turalyon who harbors evil intentions.