Legendaries are another lie from Blizzard.

[kaminaris]

Shadowlands doesn’t have anymore systems than legion.

Covenant = class hall/campaign
Soulbinds = artifact weapons
Conduits = relics

It’s nearly the exact same system, just slightly remixed.

No soulbinds/conduits are nowhere near artifact weapons. Two fundamentally different systems.
Covenants are not like class campaign at all. They are like fractions with benefits.

I don't know why people make comparisons that doesn't make sense.

Shadowlands is actually closer to BfA than to legion. Focus isnt about your class but about other faction/s which ultimately doesn't differ much than horde/alliance focus.
Nothing is bound to a single item. No grinding garbo content to get leggos. Conduits are not destroyed on replace and its acquisition is akin to essences.


https://www.wowhead.com/guide=10736/...lbind-conduits

Conduits are a persistent collections system, similar to Essences in Battle for Azeroth.

[NineSpine]

No soulbinds/conduits are nowhere near artifact weapons. Two fundamentally different systems.
Covenants are not like class campaign at all. They are like fractions with benefits.

I don't know why people make comparisons that doesn't make sense.

Shadowlands is actually closer to BfA than to legion. Focus isnt about your class but about other faction/s which ultimately doesn't differ much than horde/alliance focus.
Nothing is bound to a single item. No grinding garbo content to get leggos. Conduits are not destroyed on replace and its acquisition is akin to essences.


https://www.wowhead.com/guide=10736/...lbind-conduits

Nothing you said actually addressed what I said. You just found a really long way to say “NUH UH!”

[kaminaris]

Nothing you said actually addressed what I said. You just found a really long way to say “NUH UH!”

Of course I did not, since it wasn't my purpose to debate which exp had more systems, I merely pointed that your comparisons are not good.

[NineSpine]

Of course I did not, since it wasn't my purpose to debate which exp had more systems, I merely pointed that your comparisons are not good.

You didn't describe why my comparisons weren't good. You just found a very long way to say "No".

It comes with a hub, a storyline, a unique activity, and a customization tree.

Did I just describe a class hall or a covenant?

[valky94]

legion nostalgia? most of the legendaries in legion were garbage except the 2-3 that were bis

[InfiniteCharger]

The problem with all of these systems is that they are basically rotating abilities and talents that should be part of the base class not something that appears and dissapears every other expansion as part of some new borrowed power progression system.

Case in point:

Arcane Bombardment - Arcane Barrage deals an additional 40% damage against targets below 35% health.
Slot: Feet, Back
Original Source: Azerite Trait Arcane Pressure

Why on earth would something like arcane bombardment not be part of a Mage's core class rotation?

It makes no sense that this isn't. And this is just a repurposed version of an azerite trait.


This isn't about bloat either. These characters are at level 120 and have defeated some of the biggest threats in the universe.
Why are their abilities not equivalent to that? The alternative doesn't mean that you get 4 new abilities each expansion.
At most each class/spec would get one new ability each expansion. For each ability, these systems should be minor traits that can be applied.
And those should be semi persistent if they are applied to a weapon or some other item that you can keep or some kind of glyph.
That would give players freedom to grow their character and explore different play styles without gimping the core class itself.
It is basically lore breaking to think that a powerful <insert class here> has to relearn abilities every few years.

[NineSpine]

The problem with all of these systems is that they are basically rotating abilities and talents that should be part of the base class not something that appears and dissapears every other expansion as part of some new borrowed power progression system.

Case in point:


Why on earth would something like arcane bombardment not be part of a Mage's core class rotation?

It makes no sense that this isn't. And this is just a repurposed version of an azerite trait.


This isn't about bloat either. These characters are at level 120 and have defeated some of the biggest bads in the universe.
Why are their abilities not equivalent to that? The alternative doesn't mean that you get 4 new abilities each expansion.
At most each class/spec would get one new ability each expansion. For each ability, these systems should be minor traits that can be applied.
And those should be semi persistent if they are applied to a weapon or some other item that you can keep or some kind of glyph.
That would give players freedom to grow their character and explore different play styles without gimping the core class itself.

I really wish Blizzard would bite the bullet and adopt a system like some other games where you have a pool of abilities and a limited number of slots to pick those abilities from (in addition to your core rotation). They could then add new permanent abilities every expansion without hotkey bloat.

[kaminaris]

You didn't describe why my comparisons weren't good. You just found a very long way to say "No".

It comes with a hub, a storyline, a unique activity, and a customization tree.

Did I just describe a class hall or a covenant?

You did describe a faction with additional benefits. So covenant, not class hall since class hall wasn't a faction, did not have unique activity and did not have customization tree.

[NineSpine]

You did describe a faction with additional benefits. So covenant, not class hall since class hall wasn't a faction, did not have unique activity and did not have customization tree.

Every class hall had a unique activity/function. Warlocks had the demonic summon, shamans had NPCs that gave buffs, etc.

Every class hall also had an advancement tree:
https://www.wowhead.com/order-hall-advancements-guide

[kaminaris]

Every class hall had a unique activity/function. Warlocks had the demonic summon, shamans had NPCs that gave buffs, etc.

Every class hall also had an advancement tree:
https://www.wowhead.com/order-hall-advancements-guide

Going with that logic covenants are like trinkets because trinkets can have unique function and you can chose to equip two of them and there are factions that reward unique trinkets.

No, covenants are not like class halls, they are closer to war campaigns than legion halls.
Because besides having "advancemnets" like class hall: https://www.wowhead.com/guides/war-e...s-and-upgrades
also had more unique activities like warfronts but ALSO are a real factions.

Class halls are not factions.

[NineSpine]

Going with that logic covenants are like trinkets because trinkets can have unique function and you can chose to equip two of them and there are factions that reward unique trinkets.

No, covenants are not like class halls, they are closer to war campaigns than legion halls.
Because besides having "advancemnets" like class hall: https://www.wowhead.com/guides/war-e...s-and-upgrades
also had more unique activities like warfronts but ALSO are a real factions.

Class halls are not factions.

You just keep repeating yourself rather than addressing anything I am saying. I just have one question:

You get a unique hub with some special features in it. It has an advancement tree. It gives you an endgame quest chain. It gives access to three personal advancement trees that you can swap between, and those trees can also be slotted with effects.

Did I just describe legion or shadowlands?

[InfiniteCharger]

I really wish Blizzard would bite the bullet and adopt a system like some other games where you have a pool of abilities and a limited number of slots to pick those abilities from (in addition to your core rotation). They could then add new permanent abilities every expansion without hotkey bloat.

Yes. That would be more in line with DnD in that the challenge isn't in how many abilities you have or how powerful your char is overall.
The challenge is in using those abilities in the best way to guarantee a victory in an encounter. And that is how WOW used to be.
Now it is all about chasing carrots on a stick and becoming so uber powerful that content becomes trivial.
Which is why scaling is now part of the core game so that world content won't be too trivial.

Which means they have actually added more bloat, not removed it. They have bloated item ilvls each expansion with all the gear they keep giving out. They have bloated ability and talent trees by adding all these alternate progression systems (legendaries, artifacts, azerite, essences, corruption). They have bloated player power due to all of the above to the point where the challenge is in running content to tick a stat on a bloated ability scale.

[Grimbold21]

The problem with all of these systems is that they are basically rotating abilities and talents that should be part of the base class not something that appears and dissapears every other expansion as part of some new borrowed power progression system.

Case in point:


Why on earth would something like arcane bombardment not be part of a Mage's core class rotation?

It makes no sense that this isn't. And this is just a repurposed version of an azerite trait.


This isn't about bloat either. These characters are at level 120 and have defeated some of the biggest threats in the universe.
Why are their abilities not equivalent to that? The alternative doesn't mean that you get 4 new abilities each expansion.
At most each class/spec would get one new ability each expansion. For each ability, these systems should be minor traits that can be applied.
And those should be semi persistent if they are applied to a weapon or some other item that you can keep or some kind of glyph.
That would give players freedom to grow their character and explore different play styles without gimping the core class itself.
It is basically lore breaking to think that a powerful <insert class here> has to relearn abilities every few years.

Isn't it amusing how some people disliked old talent trees, but what we have now is basically external systems to classes that could be easily described as talent trees themselves? Including abilities which could be embedded into a larger talent tree

[Usernameforforums]

I mean, they are all weaker versions of their Legion counterparts. So they are weak by definition.

They could be making it where you upgrade legendaries in the future to make them even more powerful.

[kaminaris]

You just keep repeating yourself rather than addressing anything I am saying. I just have one question:

You get a unique hub with some special features in it. It has an advancement tree. It gives you an endgame quest chain. It gives access to three personal advancement trees that you can swap between, and those trees can also be slotted with effects.

Did I just describe legion or shadowlands?

I keep repeating simply because you did not understand my point. Covenants are not like class halls.
Class halls are not factions, period. Class halls did not give you active skills, support skill nor they could not be changed (aligned with).

War effort was closer to this as at the very least it was a faction.

[NineSpine]

I keep repeating simply because you did not understand my point. Covenants are not like class halls.
Class halls are not factions, period. Class halls did not give you active skills, support skill nor they could not be changed (aligned with).

War effort was closer to this as at the very least it was a faction.

You get a unique hub with some special features in it. It has an advancement tree. It gives you an endgame quest chain. It gives access to three personal advancement trees that you can swap between, and those trees can also be slotted with effects.

Did I just describe legion or shadowlands?

[kaminaris]

You get a unique hub with some special features in it. It has an advancement tree. It gives you an endgame quest chain. It gives access to three personal advancement trees that you can swap between, and those trees can also be slotted with effects.

Did I just describe legion or shadowlands?

Yet you get unique faction that offers some skill in exchange for aligning yourself with them, you can chose different faction if you like. It gives you unique story that anyone can experience, couple of npcs that you can bond with which offer non-linear passive skill tree with sockets that don't get destroyed once changed.

Did i just describe order halls?

[Shammyrock]

Everyone hated Legion legendaries so is this a win?

[Blackmist]

The Legendaries seem purposefully awful so you need to replace them each patch with the new ones they add.

They don't want a repeat of Legion where you basically got your BiS and kept them all expansion.

It does kind of make the initial ones feel very optional though.

[Malania]

Legendaries haven't been that since Cataclysm. If they're just another level of higher ilvl loot everyone gets, whats legendary about them? If that's the case, why does it matter?