Covenants system is pointless

[Fkiolaris]

Ye, that's the problem. In recent ezpacs the game moved more towards letting you enjoy all end game content that you liked. You had to invest time into it, but you could do it all on the same char and in multiple speccs. Covenants fuck your ability to play more then one competitive content and they fuck your ability to do it with multi specc. To me, that's not worth the rpg elements. I rather just have fun in m+ and arena like i used to.

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Why is it entitlement to have fun in all different aspects of the game without being gimped, like we could before? I don't get people like you. Its fine if you like covenants, but why is it wrong for people to be able to excel in multiple content types?

You are wasting your time mate. It's the same circle of arguments we've been having in this game since WoD about whatever moronic solution Blizzard comes up with for non-existing problems while the defenders stick to whatever catch-phrase Blizzards throws for justifying that nonsense.

"Why should you fly? It breaks my immersion"
"Then stick to your ground mount and let me enjoy flying"
"No, you can't enjoy the game the way I don't want you to!1!1!"

"Taking away core abilities from 2 of the specs to give them only to the other one is the best way to emphasise identity"
"Why don't they keep the abilities for everyone and buff/modify them for the intended spec to make them more interesting and emphasise identity?"
"No, you can't enjoy the game the way I don't want you to!1!1!"

"They had to prune because we had too many useless abilities"
"If they are useless to you, why don't you NOT put them on your hotbars and let me keep using them and enjoying doing so?"
"No, you can't enjoy the game the way I don't want you to!1!1!"

etc etc

So yeah, you are just wasting your time. If anything changes it will be when all the players get to experience these systems and vote with their wallets.

[LostLocket]

But you know. This failure will be 100% blamed on the players. It's obvious that this system is a half-assed attempt to "break the meta" by trying to force players to absolutely only choose 1 form of gameplay to be optimized for. They think this will result in people okay taking less optomized characters to competitive content (high-end PVP, high-end raiding, high-end M+)

They tried to set this shit up so that you choose 1 set of abilities for your "main" spec and make it difficult to change. So this royally screws over hybrids the hardest.

If the best covenant for your main spec is the worst covenant for your other specs, right now they're looking at something insane like a 20%+ difference in performance.

Imagine if a healer just did 20% less healing in content, you would never take that person in any sort of competitive content.

This whole thing is fucked. There is no meaningful choice other than to just not play some facets of the game depending on which you choose as a main spec which is completely insane.

Imagine you could only change your Essences only once per week in BFA. That's the level of insanity we are looking at here.

20% is actually rather low... currently the sims show roughly 30-40% being closer to the mark.

They bite off a lot more then they can chew though a part of me is looking forward to pvp becoming one shot the game.

[Popokolara]

I wasn't even answering anyone, I was discussing that I agreed with him. What the hell are you even talking about? I did answer you in the other thread. Then you started screaming in that other thread and I found out I wouldn't waste time with someone who doesn't want to discuss, only to parrot your opinion as truth. It was fucking ridiculous to read. Why don't you argue with the one I argued with?


So if some idiots do that, how is it false? You can't make this shit up. Maybe I talked about them. Maybe you should get over it and realize that not everyone are like you?


To understand that the choice is meaningful. When someone is self-contradicting and don't realize it, like you, then we should congratulate them.



Yeah, I did not answer you in the other post after the first answer I gave you because you starting shouting. You move goalpost and once again here you starting to strawman. Where in my post here did I talk about the lockdown. That you bring it up just makes you disingenuous.

I actually do answer people who can discuss like adults. Since you can't I don't discuss with you. Obviously when someone like you now start spreading nonsense and discussing things I did not and then try to make me dishonest I of course have to answer.

Learn to discuss, reflect about your arguments and see the other side. And most of all, don't behave like you do now.


Well said. It is why I like it to. The choice is meaningful, and to say other wise like some do is plain and simple false.

Screaming? No. Using kaps to emphasize points in an attempt to make you actually respond to points rather than hot air. yes.
You do the same as now.

You do not give arguments.
You avoid responding arguments.

Here is a meaningful exercise. When you make one of your little dishonest comments you actually have something to back it up. IF you dont you do not post. You do not type unless what you type has logic behind it. NO STOP-stop your brain right now from going into defensive my ego mode. be better than that. be responsible for your own words.

You say i moved goalpost. if you had any self respect you would illustrate the initial and final goalpost. and you would not twist messages.

another example:

"So if some idiots do that, how is it false? You can't make this shit up. Maybe I talked about them. Maybe you should get over it and realize that not everyone are like you?"

I doubt people actuallty said muuuuh i want all talents at once in the same fight. Havent seen a single one. Even if they do exists mentioning them in the same side of the argument as those who wants choice but are against the time lockdown is pure dishonesty.

Second example:

I wasn't even answering anyone, I was discussing that I agreed with him. What the hell are you even talking about? I did answer you in the other thread. Then you started screaming in that other thread and I found out I wouldn't waste time with someone who doesn't want to discuss, only to parrot your opinion as truth. It was fucking ridiculous to read. Why don't you argue with the one I argued with?

I mention how you form your sentences and logical thought process. the criticism on the original post was:
You complain people claim its not meaningful.
Then respond but it is a choice!

Please explain how your small paragraph above justifies this logical paradox. if you cannot you must concede your mistake.
What it does do is make an excuse to not answer at all. This is what i am complaining and criticising you for. Please understand it because i lay it out so obviously. You do not respond to an argument, you dance around it and run away pretending you are a gentleman. But you do NOT actually respond to points. how can you argue when you make or adress no arguments?


BTW behavior: Stop using the excuse of mean behavior as way out of actually not responding to points. Stop being this despicable form of person who twists and distorts messages to suit himself. I made a very polite and constructive post latere to try a different way and u ignored it. so thats as far as your "you dont discuss like an adult" go. as far as to dodge responsibility. for the 100 time.

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But your basic argument is " why do I only get to pick one talent out of the row? Why can't I have all three talents. If I pick one talent, then I lose out on the abilities the other two talents would give me. IM WEAKENED....WHY BLIZZARD WHY?" Instead, the actual truth is " Hey, I get an extra ability from here. Cool" Once again, it comes down to player agency. As for appearance wise, once again, player agency. As a mage there are plenty of plate transmogs I love, why can't I transmog those over my gear? Why should I have to chose between looking how I want and playing how I want to play?

Can you quote who demanded to have all 3 talents? And do you mean inside combat or the ability to select them?

[Gambit5555]

Ye, that's the problem. In recent ezpacs the game moved more towards letting you enjoy all end game content that you liked. You had to invest time into it, but you could do it all on the same char and in multiple speccs. Covenants fuck your ability to play more then one competitive content and they fuck your ability to do it with multi specc. To me, that's not worth the rpg elements. I rather just have fun in m+ and arena like i used to.

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Why is it entitlement to have fun in all different aspects of the game without being gimped, like we could before? I don't get people like you. Its fine if you like covenants, but why is it wrong for people to be able to excel in multiple content types?

You can still play the game without being gimped. If you aren't able to perform because you have to actually pick a talent, then that is more of an indication that you are relying to much on that talent than on skill and capability.

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Yes, they do.

Gear gets replaced by the player. Borrowed power gets replaced by Blizzard.

Borrowed power is whatever Blizzard feels the player is supposed to have this expansion, but we know it won't last. When the expansion is over, I'll still have my gear. There might be better gear, but nobody will take away the gear I have already earned. But the borrowed power abilities will get disabled. Which makes people feel more and more indifferent towards it. I'm not very motivated to grind content for gear either, but that is its own problem. It was a mistake to have gear be replaced so quickly in TBC. Maybe expansions were a mistake. Maybe level increase was a mistake.

If you feel like so much has been a mistake since BC, maybe this isn't the game for you. There's nothing wrong with that. There are tons of other games, and even Classic for people who prefer the original experience.

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Screaming? No. Using kaps to emphasize points in an attempt to make you actually respond to points rather than hot air. yes.
You do the same as now.

You do not give arguments.
You avoid responding arguments.

Here is a meaningful exercise. When you make one of your little dishonest comments you actually have something to back it up. IF you dont you do not post. You do not type unless what you type has logic behind it. NO STOP-stop your brain right now from going into defensive my ego mode. be better than that. be responsible for your own words.

You say i moved goalpost. if you had any self respect you would illustrate the initial and final goalpost. and you would not twist messages.

another example:

"So if some idiots do that, how is it false? You can't make this shit up. Maybe I talked about them. Maybe you should get over it and realize that not everyone are like you?"

I doubt people actuallty said muuuuh i want all talents at once in the same fight. Havent seen a single one. Even if they do exists mentioning them in the same side of the argument as those who wants choice but are against the time lockdown is pure dishonesty.

Second example:

I wasn't even answering anyone, I was discussing that I agreed with him. What the hell are you even talking about? I did answer you in the other thread. Then you started screaming in that other thread and I found out I wouldn't waste time with someone who doesn't want to discuss, only to parrot your opinion as truth. It was fucking ridiculous to read. Why don't you argue with the one I argued with?

I mention how you form your sentences and logical thought process. the criticism on the original post was:
You complain people claim its not meaningful.
Then respond but it is a choice!

Please explain how your small paragraph above justifies this logical paradox. if you cannot you must concede your mistake.
What it does do is make an excuse to not answer at all. This is what i am complaining and criticising you for. Please understand it because i lay it out so obviously. You do not respond to an argument, you dance around it and run away pretending you are a gentleman. But you do NOT actually respond to points. how can you argue when you make or adress no arguments?


BTW behavior: Stop using the excuse of mean behavior as way out of actually not responding to points. Stop being this despicable form of person who twists and distorts messages to suit himself. I made a very polite and constructive post latere to try a different way and u ignored it. so thats as far as your "you dont discuss like an adult" go. as far as to dodge responsibility. for the 100 time.

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Can you quote who demanded to have all 3 talents? And do you mean inside combat or the ability to select them?

Yes, I've seen plenty of people who've wanted access to all talents in a talent row at the same time. I've seen plenty of people who've wanted other classes abilities on their class. Your incapability of choosing something because it may not be the best for everything is on you. Might want to move on to a different game if making a choice is too hard or complicated

[Popokolara]

Yes, I've seen plenty of people who've wanted access to all talents in a talent row at the same time. I've seen plenty of people who've wanted other classes abilities on their class. Your incapability of choosing something because it may not be the best for everything is on you. Might want to move on to a different game if making a choice is too hard or complicated

might wanna reign that condenscending attitude on things i never stated?
how about you quote where i demanded to not have to make choices and if i didnt you apologise.

why are so many people arrogantly jumping on things NEVER SAID by other people?
why is it so hard to take what i said, quote with context and answer to that?

[Gambit5555]

might wanna reign that condenscending attitude on things i never stated?
how about you quote where i demanded to not have to make choices and if i didnt you apologise.

why are so many people arrogantly jumping on things NEVER SAID by other people?
why is it so hard to take what i said, quote with context and answer to that?

How bout you quit trying to tell other people how to discuss on the forums, control yourself there keyboard warrior.

[Popokolara]

How bout you quit trying to tell other people how to discuss on the forums, control yourself there keyboard warrior.

its not a keyboard warrior mentality to ask people to form logical arguments and answer to points stated rather than....non existant comments?
are you 12? If you arent trolling me and you arent a classic teen flamer you need help to catch up with those social skills - on reality itself.

Would you like to add something meaningful? maybe apologise for the false accusations and illogical statements? Or that is too hard for you?

[Gambit5555]

its not a keyboard warrior mentality to ask people to form logical arguments and answer to points stated rather than....non existant comments?
are you 12? If you arent trolling me and you arent a classic teen flamer you need help to catch up with those social skills - on reality itself.

Would you like to add something meaningful? maybe apologise for the false accusations and illogical statements? Or that is too hard for you?

Aww, its cute when you think people are going to apologize for calling you out on your bullshit. And being that you have added zero meaniful contributions to this entire discussion thread, you fact that you are begging others to is hypocritical. You have presented nothing but lacking opinion pieces devoid of any form of factual data to support them. And then you throw a tantrum. So once again, simmer down there keyboard warrior, no one is impressed

[Aggrophobic]

After having looked more at the cov system, and seen people use it, I think the system offers zero meaningful character customization. besides the active ability, there is almost no difference between every conduit inside of the weak soulbind system. and the covs aren't even meaningful choices, they are simply "Do I gimp myself in M+ to excel in raids?". What's funny is, a system that has been so adamantly defended by casuals, actually harms casuals the most because they will be the ones with less effective characters in 2/3 game modes at any given time while top players will having 3 characters per class taking the best Cov for every game mode. The system is pointless

Why do covs even exist?

They are not fun if thats what you mean but they do have a huge impact on your performance.
For some classes there is a +20% difference from the best to worst even when counting just DPS picks.

The balance is in a horrible place, much worse than the last 4-5 expansions. There is also very little Blizzard can do to fix this as every covenant and its conduits needs to "work" for every class, every spec, ever situation and every activity. It's not ever going to be possible to fix before the expansion is over and the system is removed. Simple as that.

So there is indded a choice - Do you want to suck at what you do or don't you?
Such fun!

[Popokolara]

Aww, its cute when you think people are going to apologize for calling you out on your bullshit. And being that you have added zero meaniful contributions to this entire discussion thread, you fact that you are begging others to is hypocritical. You have presented nothing but lacking opinion pieces devoid of any form of factual data to support them. And then you throw a tantrum. So once again, simmer down there keyboard warrior, no one is impressed

What you fail to understand is that your attempt to inflame falls flat as it defeats itself in its many contradictions. Begging ,data, opinions, words used as opposed to my criticism of the way a sentence was formed.

You do not gain imaginary points by venting your real life struggles and poor mental state on me.
My comment remains true. Your inability to counter it and use of insults is telling.
So go on keep having the last word of a spoiled child.