Last edited by Dalheim; 2020-10-05 at 08:03 AM.
Didn't you feel like shit though, at the start of BfA when they stripped you of your artifact weapon? For example, as a paladin, you the freaking Ashbringer, Highlord of the Silver Hand, and then, you go into Kul'Tiras like an average Joe. For better or worse as many said above we are god-tier now, they just have to do a better job writing our story. My personal opinion expand in the order halls, give mini campaigns there, reflecting the stance of the order hall in every expansion. With that you can also achieve the universal peace between the factions, which seem to be the thing blizz is working on lately.
''Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities'' ~Voltaire
''As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.'' ~Dickmann's Law
''No life is worth living if we can't be true to our nature'' ~Baine Bloodhoof
Yep. They've pretty much had us take down every single major character ourselves, rather than enable them to die. The proper approach would be to have fights like Lich King or Deathwing, where we don't really kill the guy, just help a major NPC do it. Instead we're literally going around now popping Archimonde, (I'm not counting Mount Hyjal since it's basically non-canon), Kil'Jaeden, N'zoth, Azshara, etc.
I Wholeheartedly agree, it's getting annoying now.
This brings to mind the video by Captain Grim which very nicely details this hugely different approach between Vanilla and now:
Can't really take that approach since every expansion since WoD has directly tied into the next one. Our actions in WoD set up Legion, our actions in Legion set up BFA, and so on. Sure, you can argue that we set up WoD with MoP, but Garrosh escaped in a book, not because of our actions in the final raid.
Not to mention they keep carrying over NPCs who clearly know you.
Nah, I love the fact that my character has grown from a fledgling to a champion/commander of his faction.
If you want to play as an Adventurer, cap your EXP at level 20 and go do boring shit there.
That's just nonsense from RPG standpoint. What "just Adventurers"?
We have so many accomplishments by now that frikkin' denizens of Azeroth should be building temples in our honor and pray at our statues.
As much as I enjoyed eating seeds and shitting them out in Grizzly Hills, digging through so, so much poop, and playing fetch more than my 15 year old dog Lt.Barklay did in all his days... I don't mind being important. Legion did go a bit far, being the "Class Champion" in an MMO is kind of dumb, but I don't mind being a "Faction Champion", there are a lot of those. Even in Vanilla we were dealing with world ending threats in end game, you can't exactly save the world dozens of times and not have your faction leaders knock on your door.
It's basically the power creep of lore, but it's much harder to reset.
Since this is an MMO I think any story approach that doesn't take other players into consideration fails, at least for me. "If everyone is super, no-one is super". Legion was stupid where we led our classhall, BFA is worse with us being the champion of Azeroth. In my opinion bosses killed sort of need to be handwaved away, maybe NPCs could have a special emote if you were world first, but apart form that, at least for me, it's better if you are treated as a cog in the machinery. An important cog, but a cog.
The best I've seen, for my taste, this far in this thread is the wotlk intro quest, the NPC knows who you are and that you are good, so he tells you to cut the recruitment line and go straight to the commander. In BFA he would run up to you clutching his bodypillow with you on it and ask if he could kiss your boots. I don't think the story works in an MMO where we are the leader of everything, but we can't make a single choice ever, and everyone we see is also the leader of everything.
Me, personally, never really understood that particular gripe/argument.
I mean, I was there in Vanilla for the gardening tool quests. I was also there to hear Thrall tell me "This is a great victory for the Horde, <name>. So many times you have honored your Warchief. It is time for the Warchief to honor you." and then announce for the whole city to hear that I am an awesome dragonslayer.
Yes, in Vanilla there was the whole progression from gardening tools to dragonslayer, but that's just it - the progression was there. It was done. That's what progression usually entails, it's eventually finished. If I hand over Ony's head to Thrall in vanilla and in Wrath he treats me like some no name grunt barely worth his time, then that just feels wrong to me.
There really isn't a grand solution for this. Either you have NPCs plagued by massive memory loss, forgetting about the heroes that, well, slayed dragons for them, or you accept that they might get an inflated opinion of you. It's not like every quest in the newer zones has NPCs put you on a pedestal either, anyway. Often enough you are just a dude or dudette that happens to be available and capable to help with an issue. It's usually when we act in an official capacity or with characters that canonically know us that we are given more respect and recognition, really.
I mean, the Shadowlands would've been an excellent place to do this. We're not known there as we are on Azeroth.
I agree. At least for me, "champion" should be only in single player games, and "adventurer" in multiplayer ones. Totally breaks my immersion being called the supreme champion, wielder of the fabled sword Ashbringer, and I look to the side and see 5 other dudes with the same title and sword..
You don't understand. Having an unpayed full time job that no one appreciates is the magic of classic.
It's about the journey. The journey into depression. The journey of running a daycare full of middle-aged alcoholics ignoring their SOs and avoiding social engagements to fulfill something they wanted 15 years ago before everyone realized it's not hard at all.
This so much. I hate this whining about "muh adventurer RP" when in reality we haven't been adventurers since the old level 55ish when many of us killed shit like dread lords in stratholme, dwarven emperors in the depths of blackrock, not to mention the direct descendents of elemental lords (45-50ish in Maudradon?). The whole adventurer things was true for about 2 months in all of WoW's 15+ year history.
If anything it's astonishing how Blizzard manages to ignore the player's history on a consitent basis and prevents us from having any semblance of agency in our latest world saving adventurs. Also let's be real here, how would you even write a low tier adventurer story in WoW? It's a fucking theme park where the goal is to let us see the cool characters we've come to like and measure our e-peens, a run of the mill adventurer story in the context of the universe would be us collecting bear arses all day long. I'm sure that would be absolutely riveting. With the sheer size of the world now every person that operates on a global scale like we do, and be it just from traveling alone, can't a simple adventurer anymore.
Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2020-10-05 at 10:22 AM.
You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.
I'd like to have the option to have npcs refer to the player by his chosen in game title.
Even though it would probably be weird to be referred to as "here is our savior, the servant of n'zoth".
So maybe just have a few significant titles as options.
The legion class ones, raidboss kills and such?
Edit: i posted this after reading to Page 4, only to now see that someone on p5 postet the same thing
Last edited by Lanesra; 2020-10-05 at 10:33 AM.
We used to be just adventurers. Long ago. Before the game turned to sh*t.
Depends.
If i make a new character he hasn't done shit. He still is treated as a Champion.
Many people who don't raid haven't killed all those Gods. I don't think everyone should be treated as if he completed every raid and quest. Because most haven't (or at least not when it was current content).
And that is not some elitism shit, i stopped raiding after MOP and i haven't done all the shit the NPCs praise me for. It's really strange.
Yeah, I agree, it's nowhere near how we should be treated. If your add up all of our accomplishments, and assume that you're exalted with all the faction we met along the way, we should really be running this show.
Inheritance and feudal law don't even stand up by this point, much less Anduin's weak claim on the throne. And it's even more obvious on horde side, with it being a tyrany, not a monarchy. Even with the council, every member there owns us multiple debts. The fact that we are only treated as champions and heroes is, honestly, insulting.