New video by <The Scarlet Scourge> Followed by a 3-days ban

[Mendzia]

Server types did not have a massive rework.


RP servers existed before 8.0.1 and they exist after.

This rule applies to RP, and RP-PVP rules, and since Rp-pvp servers became RP servers, it changes nothing.

We can argue about this topic in many next posts... and i think this is pointless.
We got different point of view and can wait what will be the outcome of this situation.
Personally i think he was mass reported by enemy faction and he will be unbanned after GMs consideration but can be wrong.
I really hate that type of stuff from Blizzard because raiding enemy city should be treated as normal gameplay since we even got achievement for enemy fraction bosses.

[sunnycutie]

Which, again, they were not able to do because you can just go elsewhere.

Being forced to go elsewhere is a disruption.

[FelPlague]

We can argue about this topic in many next posts... and i think this is pointless.
We got different point of view and can wait what will be the outcome of this situation.
Personally i think he was mass reported by enemy faction and he will be unbanned after GMs consideration but can be wrong.
I really hate that type of stuff from Blizzard because raiding enemy city should be treated as normal gameplay since we even got achievement for enemy fraction bosses.

I mean, as someone on an Rp realm, i have seen it in action, he wont be unbanned, cause he disrupted RP, something trolls commonly get banned for on RP realms.

But yeah its pointless, i showed you a GM ruling, and you deny it saying rules need to be updated every expansion or they are no longer rules.

[Baneto]

This makes your small ban justified and shows how disruptive you were. If one of the most famous griefers supported it, it wasn't a good event.

I never understand posts like this, why and what for does having a streamer approve of your guild-activities justify a ban? Thats ridiculous.

[FelPlague]

Except it does change things. People on Rp-PvP realms had no choice about PvP in PvP-designated areas. It was expected that no one directly and constantly sabotaged RP sessions on those servers because they could not choose to go to any other, non-PvP server. That's why the rule existed.

This has changed since Warmode is now a thing. RP-PvPers can now, literally, choose not to be flagged for PvP anywhere, at any given time. This changes that dynamic entirely. People who are flagged for PvP are now CHOOSING to flag for PvP, regardless of what server they are on. If they are RPing, they can flag themselves out of War Mode and avoid PvP entirely.

1. RP-PVP servers no longer exist.
2- The rule existed for normal Rp realms too, notice how the Gm post says

"Verbal, phsyical, or visual"
Verbal is chat spam
Phsyical is killing
Visual is standing over/toy spam.
These rules applied to RP and RP-PVP servers, and now apply to RP realms as thats the only type that exists.
Warmode is a thing, but stormwind is not seperated by warmode, if you have warmode off you will still have risk of being harrased by horde in stormwind, cause everyone warmode or not still is in the same place.

The rule of game disruption is not just PVP, getting killed, it is also about chat spam, and player spam.
Running around at an rp event throwing around all the toys you can, will get you temp banned.

[Nnyco]

"Disruptive gameplay".

If you got banned for that then there was 100% more happening than youre telling.

[FelPlague]

He didn't say that at all. He said that since the entire server dynamic changed to allow people to opt into and out of PvP, it doesn't make sense to enforce a PvP restriction on RP realms, since RPers have equally as much a chance to opt out of PvP as everyone else.

And that's a sensible position to take. If you want non-PvP RP, you flag yourself out of PvP, and that's what you get. If you want PvP-RP, you flag yourself for PvP, and that's what you get. Complaining that you got RP-PvP while purposely flagging yourself for PvP on your RP realm that doesn't require PvP at all, is your fault. Not the PvPer's fault.

"Verbal"
Funny, verbal huh... Horde and alliance cant speak... and oh wait the original question was about greifing Rp on all rp realms, and the Gm replied talking about all RP disruptions
be it Verbal
Phsyical
or visual.

- - - Updated - - -

If you got banned for that then there was 100% more happening than youre telling.

Its an Rp realm, disrupting RP is disruptive gameplay.

- - - Updated - - -

I never understand posts like this, why and what for does having a streamer approve of your guild-activities justify a ban? Thats ridiculous.

Especially asmongold, who was one of the main guys in a guild that got TONS of people banned for disrupting RP.
Exactly the example, their guild the level 60 project caused so much trolling on MG that ythisens came in telling people how to report, and a fair few people got banned for it. it was a whole big deal with people disrupting RP.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...eb2x&context=3

[The Scarlet Scourge]

Hello, guys, the guild master of The Scarlet Scourge speaking.

Alithia has referred me to this website so I thought I should clear up some confusion.

In essence about 10-15 players have received a 3 day ban out of the blue, myself included, exactly one day after the raid.
Some managed to get off the hook unscathed, however, none of us have had any idea why this had happened in the first place. Our guild was originally created on Argent Dawn some 2 years ago and we have been doing these kinds of stunts ever since (raiding both Goldshire and Stormwind), and only about 3 months ago have we transferred to Ravencrest in pursuit of better PvP opportunities and recruits.

None of our players have EVER received any suspensions before yesterday.

Also, because no one was exactly sure why this had happened, I opted in to open a live ticket and talk to a Blizzard representative about this and I am sharing our entire conversation exactly how it happened as well as my original ticket which I opened the live chat with:

The opening ticket:

Greetings,

Yesterday me and about 15-20 people from my guild have received 3 day bans for making a raid on Stormwind/Goldshire. We have recorded what we have been doing and made it into a RP-PVP video.

So I made a ticket about a ban appeal yesterday but still have not received any answers. While reading this, please know that I am not writing this to you while being emotionally charged, or anything similar, I am simply writing this to you because I think that world PvP is/has never been a bannable offense and that we have been falsely banned because of an automated system via accumulating a certain number of flags from enemy players.

If this, however, is not the case, and in the event that my guild and I were found breaking any official Blizzard rules we would like to know so, because we are doing this PvP out of the love for the game, the love for unscripted PvP and something very few guilds do today. We are also youtube content creators with a niche, yet amazing audience (we managed to pull a lot of people back to WoW after a few years of being unsubbed) and we wouldn't like to make them thing that doing open world PvP in WoW in 2020 is a bannable offense.

So, seeing as I have made a ban appeal ticket before, let this live chat be about a certain "ruleset" or etiquette for open world PvP as there seem to be some hidden rules that we broke without us even knowing it.

Thank you for your time and I hope we can have a nice and constructive chat because from what I can decipher this has been nothing more than a misunderstanding.

GM reply 1: Hello, this is GM ____.

My reply 1: Hello, GM ____. =)

GM reply 2: I'm just having a read of your tickets

My reply 2: Yes of course. Take your time. It feels so nice talking to an actual GM and I feel we might come to a constructive discussion about the topic I mentioned in them.

GM reply 3 (10 seconds after I posted the seconds reply): I can see that the action we've taken is correct, and was for the reason given in the email you received. This isn't up for further discussion.

My reply 3: Could I have an explanation to why it has happened? Because all I got in my email was "we have checked the evidence and found it to be correct" (im paraphrasing) but there was no actual substance to what has actually happened. Would you please elaborate so that we may not do the same mistake again in the future? It's just my case not knowing what we did wrong.

GM reply 4 (posted 5 seconds after I wrote reply 3, and after that he instantly closed the chat): As I've stated this is not up for further discussion. The email explained the reason for your suspension. Goodbye.


So as you can see this is how the customer support treated me after I only wanted to know what we did wrong so that we may not do it again and get our accounts in jeopardy. We may have broken some rules, but what's to say we won't break them again if we do not know that we are breaking them? I have tried to reason with a Blizzard representative only to be written "GTFO" in a corporate way. I am not posting the screenshots of that chat here because I am unsure if that can get me in trouble, but I have concrete proof about this chat and will probably forward it to a Youtuber who would be interested in talking about RP-PVP/Warmode and the state of Activision-Blizzard in general.

Approximately 20 minutes after this ticket, all of our tickets got answered at about the same time with the same robotic response I received. Only one of our members was lucky enough to hop into a live chat with a GM and the GM confirmed that we got banned because we were doing PvP in Goldshire on Argent Dawn and that a lot of players have reported us for "disruption", even though a large majority of them (as seen in the video) have had PvP enabled and were fighting us back.

I am posting this not because we got banned, it's only 3 days, and, while still unjust, who cares really? I am writing this because doing World PvP post-BFA will most likely remain a grey territory for most GMs to handle as they please. Someone earlier mentioned double standards and I fully agree that this is a case of double standards. The concept of "griefing" is ambiguous at best and there is no actual scale that says where pvp ends and griefing/disrupting gameplay begins. This opens up a whole lot of new problems which different GMs deal with in different ways.

Having said all of this I shall take my leave and not respond to this thread anymore, seeing as there are a few trolls in it and I cba to waste my day arguing on the internet.

I just wanted to give all of you guys information on what really happened and voice my concern that world pvp in general will be frowned upon from now on, especially in capital cities, and that the feelings of players (who fought back and lost) are now more important than the actual ToS.

Anyone who is genuinely a content creator and is interested in seeing this screenshots may reach to me out via discord Milan#7862.

Wishing you all a good day,
Milan

[Lord Pebbleton]

Why is it fine to camp a newbie for 4 hours, but performing an action that rewards players with an achievement (=raiding Stormwind) is worthy of a ban?

Either there is more to this story, or Blizzard has lost their minds

[Niwes]

Very cool video. Like it a lot.

1. RP-PVP servers no longer exist.
2- The rule existed for normal Rp realms too, notice how the Gm post says

"Verbal, phsyical, or visual"
Verbal is chat spam
Phsyical is killing
Visual is standing over/toy spam.
These rules applied to RP and RP-PVP servers, and now apply to RP realms as thats the only type that exists.
Warmode is a thing, but stormwind is not seperated by warmode, if you have warmode off you will still have risk of being harrased by horde in stormwind, cause everyone warmode or not still is in the same place.

The rule of game disruption is not just PVP, getting killed, it is also about chat spam, and player spam.
Running around at an rp event throwing around all the toys you can, will get you temp banned.

why you come up with that useless GM post again and again? this has ZERO worth in any actual law.

raiding a city in game in active game environment IS either against the TOS (the only contract that matters here law wise, everything else is COMPLETELY uninteressting and does not matter AT ALL), or it IS not.

simple as that. end of story.

[FelPlague]

Why is it fine to camp a newbie for 4 hours, but performing an action that rewards players with an achievement (=raiding Stormwind) is worthy of a ban?

Either there is more to this story, or Blizzard has lost their minds

Raiding stormwind does not take 2 hours of camping stormwind.
Raiding stormwind takes 30 seconds of flying into the keep...

[FelPlague]

why you come up with that useless GM post again and again? this has ZERO worth in any actual law.

raiding a city in game in active game environment IS either against the TOS (the only contract that matters here law wise, everything else is COMPLETELY uninteressting and does not matter AT ALL), or it IS not.

simple as that. end of story.

Idk if you know, but blizz could ban you for sneezing wrong, nothing is actual law.

Disrupting RP is against the games rules. get that through your head.

[Huntermyth]

this is utter bullshit if you are banned just because of your pvp actions.

i somehow don't believe this is the case though, i believe there is something more behind the curtain.

[Niwes]

if it is against actual TOS, ban is law wise correct.
if the TOS not clearly states anything about it, the ban itself is fine and always in control of Blizz, bc it is their product, but they have to pay back a part of the customers paid investment for their services.

thats it and nothimg more or less.

[FelPlague]

Not exactly, but RP server's Warmode is sorted separately than normal server's Warmode, for precisely that reason. One might suggest that RP Warmode is in fact the new RP-PvP.



Except, again, this isn't necessarily true. Your explanation for verbal is true, but physical is not - Physical does not refer to killing, it refers to moving/dragging/pulling AND killing. Death Knights pulling a person away from an event is harassing RPers. Spamming chat and emoting is harassing RPers. Using giant potions and standing in their way is harassing RPers.

These rules are put in place to tell people don't harass RPers. Not "you're not allowed to do these things on an RP server." Hence why the Blue post you reference SPECIFICALLY says "Thus, if you observe players attempting to disrupt roleplaying events through the use of..." before it talks about the types of harassment they recommend you report.

Raiding a city is not harassing RPers. City raids have been part of the game since Vanilla, even before there were rewards. The RPers would need to prove purposeful intent to get in the way of their RP in order to prove harassment.



And you can move. Again, you're not unable to play the game because people came to where you are. If you're not getting attacked, can't get attacked, and can just leave where they are - Youre not actually being harassed. You'd need to prove purposeful intent to follow an RP group around and stop them repeatedly to prove this wasn't just a city raid - If you just got upset that you couldn't RP in one specific area, it's not the people raiding a city's fault that you got upset.



Yes, disrupting an RP event is one thing.

However, from what I saw in the video, I saw then running all around, occasionally killing NPCs. I didn't see them chasing a group of RP players around, preventing an RP event. You're arguing against something unproven.

"Death knights pulling a person away from an event is harrasing"
You know death knights cant pull allies right.. only enemies...
and pulling them away is somehow forbidden but killing them aint?

Hmm seems like you are really trying to make up some mad shit.

also "i saw them running asround occasionally killing npcs"
you realize he shows like what.. 3 minutes of a 2 hour camping they did?
he says in one of his first posts they were there for 2 hours.

- - - Updated - - -

this is utter bullshit if you are banned just because of your pvp actions.

i somehow don't believe this is the case though, i believe there is something more behind the curtain.

disrupting roleplay, thats what is more behind the curtain.

[Zig Zug]

The music warranted a 3 day ban.

[Niwes]

Idk if you know, but blizz could ban you for sneezing wrong, nothing is actual law.

Disrupting RP is against the games rules. get that through your head.

as i said (around 5 times) they can ban whoever they want. it is their product. but you pay a fee for using their product. and if you do not act against actual law (act against the TOS, this is the valid contract between customer and company here), they have to pay back your fee for every day/hour, you can not use their services you paid for. the only exception here are technical issues. most TOS have a part about percentual average granted usability. mostly 90%. its the same as inet providers have. besides that, any reason they decide to prevent you from using for what you paid, is against the law. if NOT clearly stated in the TOS.

finally get that in your head.

go and ask a lawyer of that niche. he will explain it to you.

you can post your shitty GM quote the whole day long. this changes nothing on what is actual law and what blizz can and can not do.

[FelPlague]

I'm not sure if you've forgotten the meaning of the word "AND" but it doesn't mean "BUT NOT" for sure.



So are you saying you have proof that they DID follow an RP group around and harass them?

In case it's not clear, I'm waiting for you to prove they did, because otherwise what you say is drivel.

So your really trying to pretend running around stormwind killing all the npcs and spamming chat for 2 hours is not disrupting RP?
ok yeah there is a reason i had you on ignore.

- - - Updated - - -

as i said (around 5 times) they can ban whoever they want. it is their product. but you pay a fee for using their product. and if you do not act against actual law (act against the TOS, this is the valid contract between customer and company here), they have to pay back your fee for every day/hour, you can not use their services you paid for. the only exception here are technical issues. most TOS have a part about percentual average granted usability. mostly 90%. its the same as inet providers have. besides that, any reason they decide to prevent you from using for what you paid, is against the law. if NOT clearly stated in the TOS.

finally get that in your head.

go and ask a lawyer of that niche. he will explain it to you.

you can post your shitty GM quote the whole day long. this changes nothing on what is actual law and what blizz can and can not do.

I mean i linked an actual community manager saying its against the rules but yeah sure whatever you say. I guess you must be Ion himself since you apparently have more legitimacy then both a Gm and a CM.


also yeah stop making up bullshit, they have literally fucking zero legal obligation to pay you for the time you are banned.
if you buy a year of time and they ban you, they legally can keep all that money, cause you broke the rules, they will refund all but 1 month cause they are kind, but they have no legal obligation to.


you remind me of the people going "blizz delayed the game im gunna sue them for the time i took off work cause they legally owe me that!!!"

[Niwes]

this is utter bullshit if you are banned just because of your pvp actions.

i somehow don't believe this is the case though, i believe there is something more behind the curtain.

i assume that too, because blizz has a giant rights team and they will not do a ban, when there is a chance that it is not clearly against the TOS and not 100% perfect valid law. otherwise they would not ban, bc the yhad to compensate the users sub for the banned days, if he not clearly did somethimg against the TOS. so i assume, there is more on that than OP said. otherwise the rights team had not allowed the ban. standard company behaviour.

[Baneto]

This thread has given me new opinions about players that are a little too serious about their RP.