Can they ever, realistically, allow other races to be Demon Hunters...?

[Shadowferal]

No, I told you that you do not decide what does or doesn’t make sense. That’s what I told you.

Your reading comprehension at least matches your logic.

Well, at least I think were on the same page.
Took a couple different directions but arrived at the same spot where this guy isn't making any sense.

[Razion]

Only the agile races. [...]

By this logic, as every race has Hunters and can thus be agile, they should all have Demon Hunters.

[username993720]

Only the agile races. Maybe human, void elf for sure, troll, maybe Zandalari (they're a bit bulkier). Gnome, goblin, Vulpera would be ridiculous, their size downplays it too much.

That's all I can come up with. The other races are too bulky, stout, or ludicrously short without the proper limbs to do the shit DH do (see: Gnome especially).

What about everyone being able to be monks? isn't that ridiculous?

It should be about Lore, not so much as looks.
For example, Humans having Scarlet Monks and Draenei having Auchenai Monks. Mag'har Orcs having NPCs like Forgemistress Flamehand and Ma'ra Grimfang. and maybe Blood elves, because Monk trainer Pao describes the blood elves as "well-suited" for the ways of the monk, and states that they have taken to it quickly.

Lore restrictions are stupid and ultimately, simplify the world they've put all this effort into building.

Why bother exploring, writing and developing so many races if their ideas are so basic that its impossible for an individual Orc to ever think, "I wanna be a druid". The genre of storytelling of fantasy was basically started to address racism in the real world and here we are perfectly fine saying X race CANNOT be Y class. It's reductive.

Get that real-world politics out of the game discussion.

If, let's say, Lightforged Draenei could be Warlocks, all of the sudden, then, what's the point of them being Light fanatics, fighting against demons? Void elves being Paladins beats the purpose of them being Void-infused.

It's not lore restrictions that are simplifying the game, it's your notion of individualism. It makes the races' core characteristics bland. I don't see a reason to have different races, if ultimately, they are all the same across the board.

Don't get me wrong, if you can back it up with lore, then i'm all for it. But, you just wanna give out classes for the sake of uniqueness. for example, Orc druids could be possible, because of their strong connection to beasts and their animal-inspired gear.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Don't get me wrong, if you can back it up with lore, then i'm all for it. But, you just wanna give out classes for the sake of uniqueness. for example, Orc druids could be possible, because of their strong connection to beasts and their animal-inspired gear.

I think there's an Orc 'Druid' in Warspear? She talks about her claws and making the wilds angry or something like that

[Razion]

I'd probably use Rogues or Monks as examples instead of Hunters since the demon hunter fighting style is much more reminiscent of those two

They're good examples too. And though Tauren have historically had a lot of Rogues in lore and Blizzard has said Goblins and Worgen only missed Monks because they didn't have a model update at the time they were considering it, I went for Hunter there because otherwise I think the argument would be that Tauren and Goblins and Worgen would thus somehow be exempt from Demon Hunters - though I think other examples like Feltotem obviously point to demon-hunter adjacent influence. Probably also worth noting that Hunters historically have been able to dual-wield a lot of notable Hunters like Rexxar and Nathanos do which would be more indicative of a Demon Hunter comparison (I'd personally find disengage and harpoon more comparable to vengeful retreat and fel rush than say, shadowstep or roll but I guess that's subjective).

[username993720]

I think there's an Orc 'Druid' in Warspear? She talks about her claws and making the wilds angry or something like that

Well, damn... you're right.

Conversation

Rala Wildheart says: The situation has become very dangerous on Ashran lately. This morning I nearly had my head taken off by an enraged ancient.

Shadow Hunter Askia says: Da Alliance must be desparate to obtain da artifact to unleash such foes upon us.

Rala Wildheart says: The fury of nature should not be abused in such a way. In the end, they will pay for their folly.

Rala Wildheart says: The primal forces of Draenor are wild and untamed. They seem to resist any attempt at control.

Shadow Hunter Askia says: Dat must make things difficult for ya on da battlefield.

Rala Wildheart says: Not necessarily. I still have my teeth and claws.

"Rala's appearance, as well as her name and conversation, seems to depict her as a druid. Orc druids are not currently an allowed race/class combination; Rala may, therefore, be a foreshadowing of the combination becoming playable in the future." https://wow.gamepedia.com/Rala_Wildheart#Notes

[Bodakane]

What about everyone being able to be monks? isn't that ridiculous?

It should be about Lore, not so much as looks.
For example, Humans having Scarlet Monks and Draenei having Auchenai Monks. Mag'har Orcs having NPCs like Forgemistress Flamehand and Ma'ra Grimfang. and maybe Blood elves, because Monk trainer Pao describes the blood elves as "well-suited" for the ways of the monk, and states that they have taken to it quickly.



Get that real-world politics out of the game discussion.

If, let's say, Lightforged Draenei could be Warlocks, all of the sudden, then, what's the point of them being Light fanatics, fighting against demons? Void elves being Paladins beats the purpose of them being Void-infused.

It's not lore restrictions that are simplifying the game, it's your notion of individualism. It makes the races' core characteristics bland. I don't see a reason to have different races, if ultimately, they are all the same across the board.

Don't get me wrong, if you can back it up with lore, then i'm all for it. But, you just wanna give out classes for the sake of uniqueness. for example, Orc druids could be possible, because of their strong connection to beasts and their animal-inspired gear.

First of all, no. I can make whatever parallels I choose.

Secondly, your take is exactly the problem. You believe these beings are defined by their races. That is bland. The only reason you’d do that as a storyteller is if it was to set up an individual from that race to break out of those restrictions. Without that, all you’ve done is create a rich and deep world and populated it with interchangeable automatons.

Look no further than the granddaddy of all of this, The Hobbit/LOTR. Those stories wouldn’t exist with your stance because there’s no way a hobbit would go on an adventure as it against the nature of their race.

[Razion]

First of all, no. I can make whatever parallels I choose.

Secondly, your take is exactly the problem. You believe these beings are defined by their races. That is bland. The only reason you’d do that as a storyteller is if it was to set up an individual from that race to break out of those restrictions. Without that, all you’ve done is create a rich and deep world and populated it with interchangeable automatons.

Look no further than the granddaddy of all of this, The Hobbit/LOTR. Those stories wouldn’t exist with your stance because there’s no way a hobbit would go on an adventure as it against the nature of their race.

And yet the real grand-daddy of all RPGs, DnD, allows a lot more freedom in terms of people making whatever kind of characters of any races wielding whatever weapons as whatever classes and doing whatever sorts of weird feats and styles of approaches to its universe that anyone can imagine. LotR is a story - told to us. WoW is a game more similarly compared to a game like DnD. And while you may disagree on this and feel like WoW is more of a story than a game, certainly views on that can be up to your own judgment, the frank reality of the situation is that WoW is at least in part interfaced as a game and the freedom of expression is valuable to the player in making their own adventures and making the kinds of stories for themselves so that they might be able to add their own entertainment to the setting rather than solely relying on the narrators and storytellers to provide everything for them. You may value the storytellers of WoW more than your own or anyone else's capacity for storytelling, but it would be crude to suggest that people shouldn't be able to tell their own story in a game that is by and large intended to be an RPG -- otherwise, I would argue, character creation wouldn't even be a thing at all. The POINT is self-expression in the story, that you be able to put your own spin on it. Otherwise there would only ever be carbon cut-outs of Gnome Mages and so on to choose from. I'd argue it only restricts the stories players can tell for themselves, and that leads to less potential of self-made entertainment. And perhaps the purpose of WoW isn't to be a sandbox either, but neither is it supposed to just be only one story. Recently we've had more and more story options given to players - choosing Loyalist, or Covenants more recently. And even from the beginning of the game the core Faction choice represents different stories. Choice is paramount. Choice is important. Choice is king. In my opinion.

[username993720]

First of all, no. I can make whatever parallels I choose.

Secondly, your take is exactly the problem. You believe these beings are defined by their races. That is bland. The only reason you’d do that as a storyteller is if it was to set up an individual from that race to break out of those restrictions. Without that, all you’ve done is create a rich and deep world and populated it with interchangeable automatons.

Look no further than the granddaddy of all of this, The Hobbit/LOTR. Those stories wouldn’t exist with your stance because there’s no way a hobbit would go on an adventure as it against the nature of their race.

But, you need something to set them apart. an Orc Druid can not be the same as a Night elf Druid. That's what creating a blandness of the races.

Second of all, one character does not have to project on all of its race. It could be unique, for storytelling purposes.

The allegory you made is exactly that of the Pandaren race. they are a home-bound race, but the playable ones chose to go on an adventure. nothing class-restrictive here.

[Razion]

Lucan Foxblood is a human druid from the novel Stormrage, and humans haven't become druids yet so I think Rala is another such niche case

Not that it has much bearing on Demon Hunters, but there was kind of a follow-up on the kind of premise that Rala Wildheart represents. She speaks of attempting to control the wilds of Draenor but that they resist control - and many of the the wild races of Draenor including Botani, along with the Mag'har, recently came into Azeroth. If one errant Orc of the Horde was influenced to be a Druid due to the wild untamable Draenor, there's no telling how many other Orcs may have been influenced by the wild energies of Draenor through the Botani and Mag'har since they have spread. But, again, not much relevant to Demon Hunters there.

[Bodakane]

But, you need something to set them apart. an Orc Druid can not be the same as a Night elf Druid. That's what creating a blandness of the races.

Second of all, one character does not have to project on all of its race. It could be unique, for storytelling purposes.

The allegory you made is exactly that of the Pandaren race. they are a home-bound race, but the playable ones chose to go on an adventure. nothing class-restrictive here.

If multiple races being a certain class means there’s no difference between those races then undead and Tauren are the same because they can both be monks, hunters, warriors, priests and dks. Why play one over the other if you want to play one of those classes?

That’s your logic, not mine.

[Ardenaso]

Lucan Foxblood is a human druid from the novel Stormrage, and humans haven't become druids yet so I think Rala is another such niche case

Kul Tirans and Gilneans

[username993720]

If multiple races being a certain class means there’s no difference between those races then undead and Tauren are the same because they can both be monks, hunters, warriors, priests and dks. Why play one over the other if you want to play one of those classes?

That’s your logic, not mine.

Tauren priests are seers while Undead priests are cultists.

You wanted race/class combinations just for diversity sake, not because lore supports it.

[Saltysquidoon]

I'd just like to reiterate that anyone arguing anything is possible because "lol blizzard can do whatever they like", while technically correct is entirely missing the point of the lore forum.

[Viikkis]

Yes. Gameplay has always been first before lore in WoW.

[rhorle]

I'd just like to reiterate that anyone arguing anything is possible because "lol blizzard can do whatever they like", while technically correct is entirely missing the point of the lore forum.

They are not though. Because Blizzard can create whatever lore then want to solve whatever problem. Look at Human druids. The first were Worgens because they had a connection through there curse. Then Kul'tirans had a connection as well. Something that was "impossible" before had an easy lore explanation. Same thing with Worgen Death Knights.

We can all go back and forth on what existing lore supports but at the end of the day anything is literally possible because Blizzard can write new lore. And that new lore does not have to have any basis in existing lore. We could have Human Demon Hunters next patch and Blizzard could just say a hidden group of the Sons of Lothar stole secrets from the Illdari and have been traveling the cosmos hunting demons and finally came home. Boom. Another race "allowed".

[Saltysquidoon]

They are not though. Because Blizzard can create whatever lore then want to solve whatever problem. Look at Human druids. The first were Worgens because they had a connection through there curse. Then Kul'tirans had a connection as well. Something that was "impossible" before had an easy lore explanation. Same thing with Worgen Death Knights.

We can all go back and forth on what existing lore supports but at the end of the day anything is literally possible because Blizzard can write new lore. And that new lore does not have to have any basis in existing lore. We could have Human Demon Hunters next patch and Blizzard could just say a hidden group of the Sons of Lothar stole secrets from the Illdari and have been traveling the cosmos hunting demons and finally came home. Boom. Another race "allowed".

So I make a post pointing out the redundancy of coming to the lore forum of a fansite to essentially say 'lorelol' and the immediate reply is someone saying their argument is 'lorelol'.
It's like pottery...

Again your position is technically correct but specifically on the lore forum it is irrelevant.
What you are essentially doing is akin to coming into a thread titled "Why were nerubians in the scourge ranks in WCIII?" and instead of responding "Because Ner'zhul subjugated and absorbed them to solidify his hold on northrend" you say "Lol it doesn't matter why, blizzard could come out tomorrow and say nerubians didn't exist and they actually worked for the alliance!".

Yes, you would be technically correct but you: 1 Wouldn't have provided the in-universe reason the event occurred (the point of the lore forum); or; 2. Discussed the lore (the point of the lore forum).

EDIT

Yes. Gameplay has always been first before lore in WoW.

You unironically can't make this shit up.

[Blackmist]

If Night Elves can be mages after 10,000 years of "magic bad", then Taurens and Gnomes can be Demon Hunters...

[rhorle]

Again your position is technically correct but specifically on the lore forum it is irrelevant.

But it isn't. When discussing lore the ability to create new lore is entirely relevant. Even more so with the title of this thread and the question it posed. We don't need an in-universe reason for this discussion because Demon Hunters can be allowed to be more races for dozens of different reasons. Some based on existing lore, some based on entirely new lore. It is realistic and can happen.

[RangerDaz]

Orcs and Draenei.
Void elves and Nightborne.